help me understand this 4th gen "multi mode 4wd" crap

jacksonpt · 03-01-2005, 11:04 AM

OK... we've had my wife's 4th gen 4Runner for about a month now, and we got our first real snow storm last night. All these new fangled switches, dials, and idiot lights have me confused.

What ever happened to good old manual locking hubs? Or at least a mechanical shifter for a true transfer case?

Oh, that's right... the soccer mom revolution...

OK, anyways... how about shedding some light on this multi-mode 4wd business for me? I went to put it in 4wd last night but there are like 3 settings that all seem to be 4wd, and different lights flash for each setting.

so...
2hi and center diff unlocked - traditional rear wheel drive?
2hi and center diff locked - ???
4hi and center diff unlocked - ???
4hi and center diff locked - traditional 4wd?
4lo and center diff unlocked - is this even possible??
4lo and center diff locked - traditional 4lo?

The manual is about worthless... I assume flashing lights mean that the whatever (transfer case, diff, whatever) isn't engaged/locked yet?

It's an 04 if it matters.

*sigh* I miss manual hubs...

potsy · 03-01-2005, 11:18 AM

i can offer this much...

2 hi=rear wheel drive
4 hi with center dif unlocked=all wheel drive, safe for dry pavement.
4 hi with center dif locked=traditional 4 wheel drive

as far as 4 low goes...i dont know why you'd need 4lo with the center dif unlocked.

with the center dif locked it basically transfers 50% of the power to the front dif and 50% to the rear dif. with it unlocked (i think) it basically acts like an open dif, transfers the power to the front or rear difs based on which needs more power (someone correct me if i'm wrong about this).

i usually use 4 hi with the center dif unlocked for snow/ ice/ heavy rain when i'm on road, and use 4 hi with the center dif locked for dirt/ mud off road.

edit: in 2 hi the center dif doesnt do anything. if you try to lock it it will just flash the warning light, but it doesnt really change anything.

jacksonpt · 03-01-2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potsy

4 hi with center dif unlocked=all wheel drive, safe for dry pavement.

as in, rear wheel drive until the wheels slip, then the fronts kick in? That's pretty much worthless, in some ways it's even dangerous where I live. I want true, traditional 4wd, with all 4 wheels pulling all the time.

X-AWDriver · 03-01-2005, 11:32 AM

AWD is better in slippery conditions anyday over 4wd since true 4wd doesn't stop spinning until you let off the throttle. I drove my AWD Eclipse around for 7 mountain winters and definetly has a more secure feeling than my Runner does but anything over 8 inches of snow then it had problems.

hillbilly · 03-01-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonpt

as in, rear wheel drive until the wheels slip, then the fronts kick in?

No, the front diff is fully engaged when in 4Hi/4Lo, but the front tires are able to rotate at a different rate than the rear when needed (which is similar to AWD systems). Locking the Center Diff (T-case) synchronizes the front and rear axles and is not intended for typical paved surfaces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonpt

That's pretty much worthless, in some ways it's even dangerous where I live. I want true, traditional 4wd, with all 4 wheels pulling all the time.

You'll need a locker on each axle to get all four pulling all the time...

jacksonpt · 03-01-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-AWDriver

AWD is better in slippery conditions anyday over 4wd since true 4wd doesn't stop spinning until you let off the throttle. I drove my AWD Eclipse around for 7 mountain winters and definetly has a more secure feeling than my Runner does but anything over 8 inches of snow then it had problems.

I've never liked AWD because I never know how it is going to respond if/when things get slippery. And a lot of AWDs feel like they cut power (perhaps that's other traction control systems, but whatever). My 4Runner goes anywhere, and I know exactly how it's going to respond - no lurching, no sudden power loss, no clunking.

But perhaps I don't have enough experience with good AWD systems... I just know I hate driving my wife's BMW in the winter for that reason.

jacksonpt · 03-01-2005, 11:39 AM

ok... I get it now - thanks all.

switchback · 03-01-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonpt

I've never liked AWD because I never know how it is going to respond if/when things get slippery. And a lot of AWDs feel like they cut power (perhaps that's other traction control systems, but whatever). My 4Runner goes anywhere, and I know exactly how it's going to respond - no lurching, no sudden power loss, no clunking.

But perhaps I don't have enough experience with good AWD systems... I just know I hate driving my wife's BMW in the winter for that reason.

Drive a Subaru (any model) in the snow one time and you will change your mind about AWD for sure. There is a saying here in Colorado. . . "If its stuck in the snow, it ain't a Subaru". I drove one for years and loved it. If I ever buy another "car" it will be another Subaru. I just always wanted a truck, because I couldn't go to many off road places in my Outback.

As far as 4Hi with the diff. unlocked, it will be a bit like an AWD with the exception that it doesn't have a computer monitoring the slipage of each individual wheel like a good Full-Time AWD system does. Still better for the snow than a traditional 4WD though. Hope this helps!

<96 Runner> · 03-01-2005, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switchback

Drive a Subaru (any model) in the snow one time and you will change your mind about AWD for sure.

Roger that. My parents had one in Seattle, and that thing would not get stuck when it snowed. We purposely went out in snow storms and tried to get it stuck; up hills, off-camber, etc...but it always pulled through.

If I ever move anywhere that gets snow, a Subaru will most likely be in our garage (hopefully a WRX)

X-AWDriver · 03-01-2005, 01:04 PM

Yes,some of the newer AWD systems incorporate too much computer control but the system used in the 1st and 2nd gen DSMs worked very nicely and allowed you to make the power input and steering but never allowed the rear end come. Subaru and Mitsubishi have a few new goodies on their newer systems but they still allow alot of driver feel and control.

I used to take a backway through a state park close to my house every time we got 4-10" of snow just to play in my Eclipse since there's nothing like "drifting" through a whole corner with the rear kicked out and the front tires still controlling the nose.

switchback · 03-01-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <96 Runner>

If I ever move anywhere that gets snow, a Subaru will most likely be in our garage (hopefully a WRX)

Yeah, Those WRX's are sweet! It's no wonder Subaru's are almost always in the top 3 in the World Rally events.

potsy · 03-01-2005, 01:52 PM

yeah, i used to own a subaru myself, the thing was awesome in the snow...thats alot of the reason i got a 4runner instead of a tacoma...the availablity of the awd function of the 4wd system. as far as i know only the 4runner and jeep grand cherokee have full-time 4wd (awd).

smiljko · 03-01-2005, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potsy

as far as 4 low goes...i dont know why you'd need 4lo with the center dif unlocked

When I had Lada Niva I used it all the time.It's quite good for towing on the road and uphill

potsy · 03-01-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiljko

When I had Lada Niva I used it all the time.It's quite good for towing on the road and uphill

i guess i never figured i'd need 4lo on pavement...but then again, i never really tow anything...makes sense, though.

03-01-2005, 11:04 AM	#1 (permalink)
jacksonpt Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 2,761	help me understand this 4th gen "multi mode 4wd" crap OK... we've had my wife's 4th gen 4Runner for about a month now, and we got our first real snow storm last night. All these new fangled switches, dials, and idiot lights have me confused. What ever happened to good old manual locking hubs? Or at least a mechanical shifter for a true transfer case? Oh, that's right... the soccer mom revolution... OK, anyways... how about shedding some light on this multi-mode 4wd business for me? I went to put it in 4wd last night but there are like 3 settings that all seem to be 4wd, and different lights flash for each setting. so... 2hi and center diff unlocked - traditional rear wheel drive? 2hi and center diff locked - ??? 4hi and center diff unlocked - ??? 4hi and center diff locked - traditional 4wd? 4lo and center diff unlocked - is this even possible?? 4lo and center diff locked - traditional 4lo? The manual is about worthless... I assume flashing lights mean that the whatever (transfer case, diff, whatever) isn't engaged/locked yet? It's an 04 if it matters. sigh I miss manual hubs... __________________ Jackson - My Site 96 SR5 4x4 - 33" MTs, open diffs, and 3.90s - LET'S ROCK! My runner has bee traded in sniff on an 06 SR5 long bed d-cab Tacoma. The tacoma is nice, but... sniff ... I'll update my site when I'm done grieving. Last edited by jacksonpt; 03-01-2005 at 11:13 AM.

03-01-2005, 11:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
potsy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ocean Beach, CA Five square miles surrounded by reality. Posts: 119	i can offer this much... 2 hi=rear wheel drive 4 hi with center dif unlocked=all wheel drive, safe for dry pavement. 4 hi with center dif locked=traditional 4 wheel drive as far as 4 low goes...i dont know why you'd need 4lo with the center dif unlocked. with the center dif locked it basically transfers 50% of the power to the front dif and 50% to the rear dif. with it unlocked (i think) it basically acts like an open dif, transfers the power to the front or rear difs based on which needs more power (someone correct me if i'm wrong about this). i usually use 4 hi with the center dif unlocked for snow/ ice/ heavy rain when i'm on road, and use 4 hi with the center dif locked for dirt/ mud off road. edit: in 2 hi the center dif doesnt do anything. if you try to lock it it will just flash the warning light, but it doesnt really change anything. __________________ '02 4Runner 4WD/ 4" deckplate mod/ ISR mod/ Tundra brake upgrade/ Stubbs Welding t-case skidplate/ 32" BFG A-T's/ Satoshi grille Last edited by potsy; 03-01-2005 at 11:20 AM.

03-01-2005, 11:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
X-AWDriver Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Littleton,CO Posts: 9,657	AWD is better in slippery conditions anyday over 4wd since true 4wd doesn't stop spinning until you let off the throttle. I drove my AWD Eclipse around for 7 mountain winters and definetly has a more secure feeling than my Runner does but anything over 8 inches of snow then it had problems. __________________ '99 4Runner Highlander 4wd E-locker,rear diff and deckplate mod * 265/75/16 Nitto TerraGrapplers * Yakima Load Warrior rack * clear corners/signals * Tacoma skidplate * Silverstar lamps/fogs Alpine CDA-9831,Bazooka EL Series 250w amp,MTX 10" sub

03-01-2005, 11:39 AM	#7 (permalink)
jacksonpt Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 2,761	ok... I get it now - thanks all. __________________ Jackson - My Site 96 SR5 4x4 - 33" MTs, open diffs, and 3.90s - LET'S ROCK! My runner has bee traded in sniff on an 06 SR5 long bed d-cab Tacoma. The tacoma is nice, but... sniff ... I'll update my site when I'm done grieving.

03-01-2005, 01:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
X-AWDriver Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Littleton,CO Posts: 9,657	Yes,some of the newer AWD systems incorporate too much computer control but the system used in the 1st and 2nd gen DSMs worked very nicely and allowed you to make the power input and steering but never allowed the rear end come. Subaru and Mitsubishi have a few new goodies on their newer systems but they still allow alot of driver feel and control. I used to take a backway through a state park close to my house every time we got 4-10" of snow just to play in my Eclipse since there's nothing like "drifting" through a whole corner with the rear kicked out and the front tires still controlling the nose. __________________ '99 4Runner Highlander 4wd E-locker,rear diff and deckplate mod * 265/75/16 Nitto TerraGrapplers * Yakima Load Warrior rack * clear corners/signals * Tacoma skidplate * Silverstar lamps/fogs Alpine CDA-9831,Bazooka EL Series 250w amp,MTX 10" sub

03-01-2005, 01:52 PM	#12 (permalink)
potsy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ocean Beach, CA Five square miles surrounded by reality. Posts: 119	yeah, i used to own a subaru myself, the thing was awesome in the snow...thats alot of the reason i got a 4runner instead of a tacoma...the availablity of the awd function of the 4wd system. as far as i know only the 4runner and jeep grand cherokee have full-time 4wd (awd). __________________ '02 4Runner 4WD/ 4" deckplate mod/ ISR mod/ Tundra brake upgrade/ Stubbs Welding t-case skidplate/ 32" BFG A-T's/ Satoshi grille

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