Toysrme

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=141360&highlight

If the large Denso AFM on a 3s-gte making >370bhp only loosing 3.6bhp & .72ft-lbs at the flywheel VS a MAP setup with near 0 implication. You guys on your small Denso AFM's making far less than 200bhp have 0 need for a larger AFM/MAF, or a speed density setup.


Tada!











No AFM is BLUE
AFM in place is RED

Targetnut

A turbo setup uses a waste gate to set the boost pressure and the turbo can create a big enough pressure drop across a VAFM to flow the CFM it needs to get to that boost (up to a limit of course) But a normally Aspirated engine is limited by it's Volumetric efficiency and will suffer more loss to the restriction of a VAFM.

dcg9381

I thought we'd already been through this once?

Anyone know how large the factory AFM flap is?

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/maf-bypass-106148/

Bill

The small AFM door is 1 7/8" x 2" tall

The large 5/7M one is 1 7/8" x 2 1/2" tall


Toysrme, as the others here have mentioned, a huge issue with what you're saying if the "GTE". Turbos flow different than NA.

Targetnut

It's not simply a matter of the size of the opening as it is the force that is required to move the "flap"

Toysrme

No... You're simply too stubborn to realize that > 300bhp worth of airflow is the same 300bhp worth of flow, regardless of what & where it comes from.
The end resulting mass of the airflow is the same any way you want to make it.


The AFM is not restrictive on your engines. Nor has it ever been. You guys have been barking up the wrong mod trees for more than a decade & it's gotten none of you anywhere. LMAO!
Only person evne close to actually addressing what's wrong with the stock engine is bumpin's slow buildup.









Address the problems, not things that work for you.

dcg9381

I completely agree that 300hp worth of airflow is 300hp worth of airflow in terms of CFM. You're making an apples to oranges comparison in terms of AFM size, however, as you're referencing a vehicle with FORCED induction.

What people are trying to tell you is that for a given hole size, you can move more air through that hole by appling more pressure to it:

Think of drilling a 1/2" hole in the bottom of a cup. How long is it going to take for that water to flow out of the cup?

Do the same experiment, but put a top on your cup and apply 7psi of pressure. Does the water drain out faster, slower, or at the same rate?



You are correct, however, modifing our AFMs and using big bore TBs may not make any sort of a difference on a stock 22RE.
On modified motors, it could make a difference.
For reference, a stock 22RE TB is 55mm.
a 60mm TB will flow roughly 495cfm.
a 65mm TB will flow roughly 664cfm.
a 105mm TB will flow 1550cfm.
Required CFM for a 22RE, 2.4L, 146ci @5000 rpm = 211cfm (we don't need a huge TB and it's actually less than this # as our peak torque is at a lower RPM)




I threw away the factory AFM in my truck because I thought it might be restrictive.
I also added a 60mm TB and ported the upper plenum.
Am I wasting my time?

alfio

can you be more specific in regard to your comment on bumpin's build?

alfio

iamsuperbleeder

WHOA THREAD RESURECTION!!!

1989toy4wd

Also I think for some people that they dont get rid of the VAFM for a power increase, I think some get rid of it because it is huge and bulky!! There is not a huge choice for aftermarket air filters!! A maf system is easier to build around than a VAF....

Now this is kinda on topic, but does the turbo 22re use a vaf system?? Im just curious, never really got a close up look of one!

iamsuperbleeder

hell I THINK is uses the same airbox

1989toy4wd

And it never fails, I always post on the resurected threads!!

1989toy4wd

Thats wierd, I wonder what kind of difference that it would make on a turbo 22re if you went to a maf system!!

iamsuperbleeder

I wander how much HP I would gain from changing the bulbs in my tail-lights to LED's that draw less current?


yeah... probably that much, lol


the re's just don't flow all that much air for it to make a difference, turbo or not... not without some MAJOR modifications...

alfio

thread resurrection indeed

i'm getting comfortable with my new to me 3vze and i don't really like the swap options (to gasoline engines anyway) so i'm trying to get informed on the potential of this engine, hence the thread resurrection

alfio

abecedarian

And last I checked, the AFM on the 22RET(RTE?) was the same as on the 22RE. So it seems that if the turbo's pulling 10+ PSI through the same AFM, and is capable of pushing 200HP just fine, the 22RE's AFM flows more than enough for most N/A use... considering that at 10 PSI the airflow has increased well over 50% compared to N/A.

InternetRoadkill

I know the VAFM for a N/A 22RE is a problem. I did a test where I replaced the VAFM with a GM MAF and it knocked 2 seconds of the 0-60 time. The difference in driveability was noticeable immediately.

edeslaur

Sub'd. Gots to learn this stuff for my upcoming RTE (RET?) build!!

poynter

Still using the GM piece? got part #'s?

InternetRoadkill

The GM MAF part was off the oldsmobile 3.0L IIRC. Don't have the part number handy. The installation was temporary because the converter was not rated for under-hood operating conditions and would have likely failed over time. There is a thread about it on this board with some pictures.