Harold Of The Rocks

Hey guys, doing a lot of reading on ball joint spacers. I'm planning on using a new set of Downy springs and a 4crawlers 1' BJ spacers. I'm still planning on using my stock SR5 aluminum rims. 4cralwer notes that there "could" be rubbing issues. Anyone run a similar set up and have any comments about whether there is rub and, if so, how bad. SORDI sells, I think, wheel spacers but I'm really curious to get some input about them. I'll likely do this mild lift but I'm really unsure about using wheel spacers. I'm trying to adhere to 4crawler's moto of only lifting as much as you need and 2 inch springs in the back with 1' BJ spacers in the front seems like a pretty safe, reliable, and uncomplicated set up. Anyone with input or an opinion!, let me hear it. Also, if your running wheel spacers I'm really eager to read about how they feel on the road. Anyone with pictures, especially with stock rims, would be kicking! I think Dieselfreak ran a very similar set up but had different rims. Anyway, thanks guys
Harold

lofreqjeff

What year vehicle do you have? Mine is an 89 4Runner with some 31x10.5x15 tires and some stock rims from a 95 Tacoma

I have a similar set up - 1.5" SORDI BJ Spacers, 2" Downey leafs - and I did have some pretty bad rubbing even before getting an allignment. The place I took it told me that if they were to allign it the tires would be touching the UCA's so bad I wouldn't be able to drive it. I got some 1" wheel spacers on all 4 tires and after the allignment everything was fine. I did have to trim down the stock wheel studs with 1" spacers - the studs were longer than the spacers. I helped a friend do this same set up on his 93 4Runner and he got 1.5" spacers and did not need to trim his wheel studs. I don't really notice much of a driving difference with the wheel spacers.

Harold Of The Rocks

Thanks lofregjeff. Mine is also an 89. That's the feedback I was looking for. Your set up looks great, and with the newer tacoma wheels I assume the backspacing is the same as the SR5 aluminum ones. So that being said I would really have to consider doing some grinding. At this point Im quite unsure whether I want to do that. I may just run Downey 1 inch springs in the rear and keep the front level with out any BJ spacers or torsion bar adjustment. I'll have to reread SDORI discussion about the theory of operation to figure out why BJ spacers end up resulting in rubbing. Still not getting it.
Harold

yoder519

i run 1.5inch bj spacers and a 2inch AAL with 15x8s 3.75 backspacing and 33x12.50s. cleared fine on the roaod but rubbed when wheeling. i just put on a 2inch bodylift to solve the probelm a couple days a go

Harold Of The Rocks

Thanks for passing on your setup Yoder. Geez, if I've to consider a body lift I'm out for BJ spacers. Just really wanted to do a 1 to 1.5 inch lift without using the torsion bar, and with minimal hassle. I'm thinking I might need to read a bit more.

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

I think Yoder is talking about different rubbing (correct me if I'm wrong) that is more of a tire rubbing the truck frame/body depending on the amount of compression and wheel turn at any given moment.

The issue with the BJ spacers is a constant rub due to the change of geometry in the UCA after spacer installation. I remember a thread got started but I can't find it now regarding this (old old thread). IIRC certain tire/wheel combos resulted in rubbing while others did not. In my case, I had no rubbing issues with a 1.5 inch setup with 31/1050/15 BFG ATs on Toyota rims like so...


Jeff is running Goodyear MTRs.

Jeff was the rub going to be on your rim? Or tire?

Don't worry too much if you end up going the wheel spacer route. Virtually every SA swapped Toy (using a Toy axle) is running spacers up front to compensate for the axle width difference between SA and IFS trucks. Just be sure to check the tightness after a couple days and then periodically after that.

Harold Of The Rocks

Hey BLK, thats exactly what I'm wondering about. 4crawler talks that some tires might rub. My plan is to run 31' tires with 1 inch spacers up front. What I didn't want to do is have to do a body lift, wheel spacers to do it. If that is the case, I really don't need the lift. But, if your running stock rims with 1.5 BJ spacers without much trouble, maybe I should reconsider. Your black rims look devilish BTW. As a posted earlier, I need to review SDORI explanation about geometry to try and understand why spacers create rub.

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

Don't know about balljoint spacers or wheelspacers. But wanted to comment on you spring selection. I ran a set of downey 3" springs. Had to revisit the springs several times putting stock springs in the downey pack to compensate for sag. I replaced them with less than a year on them. If the reason your using them is to keep stock spring mounts then consider another option.

Generally you want an inch higher rear spring than front on a 4rnr due to the extra weight, disregaurd if your topless. Look in to OldMan Emu, as I've heard good things about them. Or an add a leaf on the cheap and save money for other mods.

I'm on 4" lift that are 5" longer than stock springs no balljoint spacers and Torsion bars slightly tightened maybe .5" front lift. Next is time to SAS my truck, but with mild trimming it don't rub. Good luck with you truck.

lofreqjeff

My rubbing issue was the tire on the UCA. I issues at all with the rims rubbing.

Harold Of The Rocks

Muddpig, when I was doing my research I read numerous review of Downey springs being a good option. So, I'm glad you have a counter point. I know to run 1 inch higher in the rear than in the front for my 4runner. That came up several times in my "search" feature (it was scary) . So, ya, I was (am) prepared to do a 2 inch lift in the rear with 1 inch BJ spacers. I've just got to figure out whether I have the abilities and confidence to install (run) the spacers, with the possibility of have to use wheel spacers and a body lift. I've got to read more of SDORI's webpage. However, I will take your advice and look into OLD man emu springs. Variety can't hurt.

Harold

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Here is a thread about tire/wheel combos and rubbing, but not the thread I was thinking of.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/bj-spacers-129574/

In regards to the geometry and rubbing, this thread has a good pic in the first post. If you look at the UCA with and without the spacer you see how it has moved. However the LCA and the wheel hub center (the point where your wheel/tire attach to the vehicle) hasn't moved. Now imagine the tires sidewall bulge riding just above the UCA in stock position. Moving the UCA up can move it right into the tire because the tire wont move in conjunction with the new UCA position. From what I gather this is with 31's and smaller tires, and even then, only with some brands. With larger tires the sidewall bulge moves up and further away from the UCA, and so, is not an issue.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...metery-129990/
As I previously posted, my experience was no rubbing with the BFG/Toyota combo.

I will disagree with Muddpigg's Downey evaluation. I got great service out of mine. 3" lift springs settled approximately 1" in 3 months then remained constant and held up well to hard wheeling.

Muddpigg, did you re-use the Toyota overload leaf? Just curious.

FredTJ

Why don't you simply do a 1" or 2" bl and be done with it.
That'll let you run larger tires with no worries of rubbing the UCA, it will allow you to push the xfer case/tranny up higher, closer to being totally between the frame rails, and it will allow you to do something with the gas tank, to get it up out of the way a little more.

A suspension lift (bj spacers, etc.) allow none of the above, with the possible exception of larger tires without rubbing.
BL's offer a solution to a ton of problems that a lot of people never think of.

My thought process, before doing a mod to the vehicle, is to ask the question:
"What problem(s) is one trying to solve, specifically", then look at the options and find out what's the best.
Too many people, IMHO, want to throw a suspension lift on "because". They can't really articulate the reason(s), except that Billy Bob did it and they want to keep up with Billy Bob or that they think it looks "cool" or something.
Sometimes the money can be better spent elsewhere on the vehicle, doing something to it that will provide a concrete benefit.




Fred

yoder519

ooohhh i thought you asking if you could run 31s and bj apcaers without rubbing. i aint never heard of rubbing with stock rims and 31s

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

i run BJ spacers and OME 2" Dakar leafs, stock alloys with 31x10.5s.

when installing the BJ spacers, I could definitely see how *some* tires/rim combo will rub on the UCA.

at stock, i had maybe 3/4" clearance from my sidewall to the UCA. after BJ spacers, I had maybe 1/4" space between them - too close for me. I decided to loosen up the t-bars and drop her back down an inch (to soften it up and get a tad more travel) - this changed the camber angles and brought the clearance from the UCA back to normal. if i had mud tires with high profile sidewall lugs, they'd definitely rub.

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Relaxing the t bars and softening the ride is fine, but it won't change the clearance between tire and the UCA. Relaxing the t bar lets the UCA drop, which pushes down the BJ spacer, which pushes down the upper BJ, which pushes down the spindle, which pushes down the lower BJ, which pushes down the LCA. So the whole unit moves in conjunction. The tire is still in the same position relative to the UCA. The good news is that your set up is working for you without issue.

vegastoy

I'm running 1.5" bj spacers with 33 10.50 15 BFG A/T's on stock SR5 alloys. There is probably 3/8" between the UCA and the tire. Hasn't rubbed on me yet.

If you are gonna do bj spacers I would do the 1.5" no matter what. If it ends up being too high just relax the t-bars till your happy with it. That's what I did and the front is much softer.

Harold Of The Rocks

Fred, I definitely considered a body lift but would prefer not to do one. Your advice regarding your thought process in regards to modifications is a good one. I've have thought about what am I trying to accomplish. That's was I really considered 4crawler's BJ spacers as he pointed out that you only lift as much as you need to get the job done, which is what 1 to 1.5 inchs can do. But, the rubbing issues with some tires still have me pondering whether this is the right lift. I'm planning on sticking with 31 10.5 for as long as I run the 4runner. I have no desire for larger tires as 95% of my driving is on the road. In saying that, rubbing on the upper control arms could be an on going problem which, at this point, I wouldn't want to deal with. I'm still learning about torsion bar adjustment and I would guess that my is still in the stock positioning (which I have no desire to either raise or lower). In the end I may have to reconsider a minor 1 inch body lift with 2 inch rear springs, or, simply find a set of spring that run 1 inch over stock (to account for the extra 4runner weight). Regardless,I need to continue to do some research, but seeing my rear end sag on a day to day bases is becoming pretty annoying.
Harold.

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Based on what you've written here, I don't think you need to mess with the front at all. 31's will work just fine for you the way it is. Just fix the sag and your on your way. Save the spacer $$ for something else. Here are some before and after pics of mine with the 3" Downeys as well as the thread it came from. There are pics in the thread of another guy that used 2" Downeys so you can compare. Also, keep in mind in my pics the truck has a 1" body lift but no BJ spacers yet.
The pics:


and the thread:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/n...stalled-48400/

Also, in my thread I talk about OME being expensive vs Downey. That has changed. OME has moved production of their springs to somewhere in Asia and they are now competetive with Downey in pricing. Initially it sounded as if OME quality was just as good after the move but I have since seen a few (very few) comments of problems with not holding up and I would probably be hard pressed to find them. There could also have been user error involved as well. For instance, with the Downeys I found that most of the posts I ever found with unhappy results was from folks that had not re-used the overload spring on the new pack as is recommended by Downey in their instructions. Hopefully Muddpigg will respond regarding his experience with them so we can have more input for you. I don't know what OME is recommending or what people are doing with them. My Downeys settled 1" over the first 2-3 months but then stayed right there. I don't know if the OMEs settle, you'll have to search around about that. Also the OMEs have only the 2" option while Downey has 2" and 3" (though that may turn out to be 1" and 2" in the end) Good luck in your efforts!

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

blknblu, good to hear you are having a good experience with them. My was less than. I put only the overloads on, then a single leaf, then two more, and finally sold them. But things could have changed as companies do aquire different sources or perhaps it was a poor batch of steel. I don't know. I was in a hurry to replace at the time so that I coulpe mod d-line once when the crawler box installed. Good luck guys

and the 4rnr looks good

kodiak90

I'm thinking about putting some ball joint spacers on my truck. From the looks of this thread most guys running a 10.50 width tire did ok without wheel back spacing. I've got a 11.50 width tire and I'm guessing I'm going to have to do at least an inch of back spacing to make this work. Any in-put on this???