junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Don't know if I should be posting this question here, but it seems like the best place to ask this.

Specs:

1987 4Runner
Stock 22re
W56B Transmission

1) I'm pretty much near to cranking my truck up after rebuild of the 22re. Looking to put a fresh pour of Gear oil in the the tranny. The recommended rating use to be GL-4 and I see that NAPA is the only store carrying it in my area. GL-5 Gear oil is said to deteriorate the syncros at a accelerated rate.

What is the brand and rating that is best called for that everyone is using. I'm looking at GL-4 75w90 as it is recommended. I know back in the 1991 on my 86 runner I used a heavier grade GL-4 and it worked great for years and reduced a lot of noise never had any ill effects as it was running like that for 10years till I garaged it about 11 years ago.

Just want to find out if anyone else has a better thought on gear oil off the shelf, nothing fancy.

2) Motor Oil, I'm looking at Synthetic Blend Motor Oil, since the engine is fresh I have a choice. I prefer conventional oil heavy weight which is what i use to use in the 80's and 90's on the 4runner 20W50 and it ran smooth with no ill effect and it made the engine quieter. Again would like to know what is the best everyone has found to be.

Here's a link to my build:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post52057504

Thanks

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

Here's a good thread to look at: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...87-4x4-256616/ Also try to search as well as there are plenty of gear lube threads on here.

I recommend a GL4 also. I have used Red Line MT90 which is a synthetic GL4 gear lube 75w90 rated for manual trannys. Works very well but is expensive. I also feel the same way about GL5 rated lubes that were designed for hypoid gears - they don't play well w yellow metal synchronizers. NAPA sells a GL4 85w90 gear lube that I haven't used yet. I hear that it shifts a little hard in the colder weather until it warms up.

I wanted to try *Pennzoil* Synchromesh in my 1994 4Runner and have been using it with great results for the past 5000 miles or so. Shifts real nice even in the colder weather and shifts smooth. It's designed for certain synchroed trannys but not ours. I wanted to try it because it's cheaper than Red Line and easily available around here. Check it out.

As for oil, I've read that all the common off the shelf semi-synthetic oils don't really have a lot of synthetic oil in them as long as they add a little they can call it "semi-synthetic." If you just rebuilt your engine, break it in with dino oil and then after 1500 miles run synthetic. Check this out:

Q: What's the third most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Not changing the oil soon enough after the engine is first run !!

Change Your Oil Right Away !!
The best thing you can do for your engine is to change your oil and filter after the first 20 miles. Most of the wearing in process happens immediately, creating a lot of metal in the oil. Plus, the amount of leftover machining chips and other crud left behind in the manufacturing process is simply amazing !! You want to flush that stuff out before it gets recycled and embedded in the transmission gears, and oil pump etc...

Why do the manufacturers recommend waiting until 600 miles to
flush out all the loose metal ???

This is a good question ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 more words on break- in:
NO SYNTHETIC OIL !!

Use Valvoline, Halvoline, or similar 10 w 40 Petroleum Car Oil for at least
2 full days of hard racing or 1,500 miles of street riding / driving.
After that use your favorite brand of oil.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Viewer Questions:

Q: If break- in happens so quickly, why do you recommend using petroleum break- in oil for 1500 miles ??

A: Because while about 80% of the ring sealing takes place in the first hour of running the engine,
the last 20% of the process takes a longer time. Street riding isn't a controlled environment, so most of the mileage may
not be in "ring loading mode". Synthetic oil is so slippery that it actually "arrests" the break in process before the rings can seal completely. I've had a few customers who switched to synthetic oil too soon, and the rings never sealed properly no matter how hard they rode. Taking a new engine apart to re - ring it is the last thing anyone wants to do, so I recommend a lot of mileage before switching to synthetic. It's really a "better safe than sorry" situation.**

**from here.

Other break in links: http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

http://www.sacoriver.net/~red/breakin.html



When I got my 5.8 Windsor rebuilt, my friend and I beat the snot out of it to break the rings in.

And your choice of motor oil weight - 20w50? Seems a little thick. They recommend 10w30 but I use 5w30 because of the colder weather. I guess it depends on the weather where you live. Plus the chain tensioner on our 22re's are hydraulically controlled by the oil pressure. With thicker oil, it takes longer to build up the pressure and tighten the chain. But, to each his own. I plan on using something like a Mobil 1 0w30 when I rebuild my motor so the oil pressure builds quicker. I also like Red Line oil. I have used and currently are using one of their products. I have used their motor oil and gear lubes. Good stuff. I have also used Mobil 1 as well. As for dino oil, I have used Pennzoil and Castrol are a few that come to mind.

I checked your build link out quick and the motor looks sweet. I will definitely check it out.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Daved5150 for the info, been very helpful. I live way south meaning South Florida specifically Miami, Florida. So the oil being thick actually seems better here than it would up north.

I ran 20W50 in the original 86 4runner from day one until I parked it. Likewise the tranny as well heavier gear oil. Really work good here in this heat we usually have. Only time it got cold for my truck was when I traveled up to Tallahassee or G-ville (Gainesville).

Back in 86 It was only me and my buddy driving back and forth to G-ville not to many people knew what a 4runner was, so it was kind of hard to get info back then so it was just going by what we thought would be good.

Also, No internet so information terrible to get...

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

You're welcome, Junk. Glad to help. My cousin lived in Miami and I been down in Florida in the past. I know how hot and sticky it gets down there. If the thicker oil works for you and gets the job done to protect the motor, keep going with what works. If you have any other questions, send me a PM and I'll see what I could do for you. I bought my first 4Runner in 2006. Didn't really know about them before then. If I would have known what awesome little trucks they were, I would have bought one sooner. That's great that you've been driving them since 1986.

jerry507

Don't just assume no one sells Redline products in your area because you don't see them at the chain parts stores. There is a local racing shop that carries most of the product line in varying quantities and can order on a week or twos notice. For me at least it was slightly less than ordering off Amazon.

I just googled a random Miami zipcode and put it into the Redline dealer search. Here is the link:

http://www.redlineoil.com/dealers.aspx?z=33109&r=50

MT-90 is the bog standard product they sell so they'll have tons of it on hand at any of those places.

You only seemed to mention the transmission, but not the transfer case. I would recommend saving your money and putting something cheaper in the transfer case. There aren't any special concerns as there are in the transmission. Later FSMs spec either 4 or 5, and 5 is way easier to get and cheaper.

cman1

iTrader: (1)

Oriellys carrys GL-4.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Hey thanks for the reply Jerry507, I check out that store as well that is listed as a dealer. Their website is down, but that is close to where I live and next to the toyota dealer and Napa as well. I ended up purchasing the gear oil at Napa for now as I don't know how the tranny is yet since it was purchased used and seems to be fine. The only issue I have is that the bottle states that it is compatible with GL-3, GL-4 and GL-5. As soon as I can get it all up and running and everything seems to be working out I'll check that store out. Napa Gear Oil was $5 and change a Qt. and its made by valvoline oil. I want this tranny to last for a while. As for the Transfer case Thanks for that info.




Thanks cman1 for that info, but the closes Orielly store in in Kissimee, FL which is about 230 miles away from me. Sure wish they would open a store south of the border which for them right now is Kissimee, Fl.

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

I like the Redline gear oil for my W56C.

2003mikem

iTrader: (1)

i 3rd redline

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

I like redline, but be it that the tranny I got used and don't really know if it is good or not, I'm starting out the economical way. later i will change to Redline thanks to Jerry507 who pointed it out for me that there is a dealer close by me.

Thanks all for the replys and yes redline is better.

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

x5 on the Red Line MT90. It would be my first choice but I wanted to try Pennzoil Synchromesh for $8/quart and see how it worked.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Hey Daved5150 that sound interesting, I know that Napas Gear oil is made by Valvoline and was only $5 and change. Just because it's made by Valvoline doesn't mean it's good. It maybe the bottom of the barrel for all I know, but like you I'd thought I'd give it a try.

Let me know how it works out and where you purchased it.

Thanks

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

Yea Junk, I bought the Synchromesh at Advance Auto. I didn't try NAPA or anywhere else but it's common stuff I think. I will check my notepad in my truck tomorrow and I will give the mileage that I have on the fluid **5800 miles and so far so good**. Some guys gave me a hard time on it in the thread that I told you about and no one really expressed any curiosity about it. I think you are actually the first one. To be honest, I really the like the Synchromesh as it shifts very smooth even before the truck has warmed up in the cold winter weather. We shall see....Like I said, any lube specifically designed for synchronized transmissions whether for ours or NOT has to be better than a GL5 oil which is designed for hypoid gears and is probably too slippery and corrosive for use with the yellow metal synchros. That also goes for the GL4 rated MT90 - specifically made for synchro transmission application. But, Synchromesh does not have a GL rating....but it's working for me. If it wasn't, it would not shift that smooth.

About the transfer case, I have MT90 in it because I didn't have enough of it to fill the tranny. When I called Red Line years back when I first bought my 88, that's what they told me. I heard that the transfer case may have yellow parts, so I like the GL4 oil there. I could be wrong so hopefully someone who knows will chime in.

Oh...and you can just call me Dave, bro. My last name starts w a "D" and the "5150" I got from a Van Halen album title which is a California police code for a crazy person.....

Appleseed

I have PDFs of the 88 4Runner factory service manual that calls for API GL-4 or GL-5 in 75W-90 or 80E-90 in the W56 trans. What's the story? My truck, however, is an 87. Is it possible Toyota's internal parts differ slightly between these years? I ask this as I'm about to do a trans fluid change and have picked up some GL-5.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the tips, when I had my 86 4Runner running I used the heavier spec of gear oil and it was easier to get GL-4 Gear Oil back then. As I said before the heavier spec oil lowered a lot of noise they tranny and engine put out. Living in South Florida I didn't have a lot of problems with with the thicker oil and it seem to make the viscosity of the oil last longer. Though since then, more has been tested on these trucks with the different oils and I would tend to follow those that have experience with it.

As to your name, thanks for making it easier. And the 5150 haven't thought of that since the late 80's didn't dawn on me. Can't remember wasn't the story behind that it was his addy for his studio as well...


Hey Appleseed, thanks for tuning in here. I have an 86 and 87 4Runner with the 86 4runner waiting for a rebuild and I am the original owner to that with bill of sale from the dealer and the 87 4Runner i purchased last year as it was quicker to rebuild than my 86.

Yeah the oil is a complicated item as far as i can tell, but I would tend to follow the experience of others. If you look around the web at these brass syncros you will find a lot of talk about the gear oil and what most are using. Most are saying how GL-5 will destroy the brass syncros like the old Datsun 240 and 280z. So, I am trying to stick with GL-4.

And you are right on the 88 FSM it is confusing and here is why:

This image is from the 88 FSM that you are talking about. MT-101



And here's another image to which I can't remember where I got this from, but at the top of the page it show a page reference number of MT2-2, but its specific to a 22RE and W55 or W56 transmission:




Can't image what gives with that, I would assume most books or specs related would some how be close to the same. I am checking the other FSM manuels I have right now and will post my findings as well.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Okay I just went through my other manual and the state the same as the 88 FSM GL-4 or GL-5 and this particular FSM has a Copy right date of 1987. I am going to have to take a look at the old Haynes I have.

I still am preferring GL-4 like I said before because of every ones past experience.

Will get back to you on the Haynes manual, i also have a chilton, but I have no clue to where that is. the haynes and chilton where purchased back in the 90's which i don't use much as with the invention of the internet, the FSM manuals are easy to get than prior years

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Okay just looked over the Haynes manual and it states GL-4 for the Tranny.

Bullet22r

Lets be realistic here a quart of redline is 200 dollars and a gallon of it is about 270 dollars, come on 300 dollars of that stuff to replace tranny fluid, any other alternatives other than pennzoil syncromesh? I recently replaced the inner shaft oil ring and filled my transmission up with valvoline high performance gear oil that was specified for GL-4 and GL-5 its so hard to come across GL-4 gear oil none of my local auto parts carry it.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

http://www.summitracing.com/search/b...ssion-gear-oil

Just where are buying this stuff? Maybe it's currency conversion issue, really there is some where left in the world with cash less valued than the USA thats good to know.

jerry507

It's hard to come by GL-4 anymore because the main reason it existed was the sulfer they used to protect parts harmed the yellow metals. GL-4 still contains these additives but in lower concentrations. Nearly all the modern "universal" oils (the ones that say they meet GL 3/4/5) use different additives that no longer harm the yellow metals. Therefore selling GL-4 is kind of pointless.

When people say they like MT-90, they may think they're somehow saving their transmission from damage but they're really not.

What they are feeling, and what causes them to recommend it, is the higher shift quality. This comes from other properties of how the oil is mixed but not because it's GL-4 specifically.