RICE ETR

Ok so I keep seeing posts where people have done this....but everyone recommends switching to low comp pistons, and running the turbo ecu and harness.
My camaro has factory cast pistons and is 10.1:1 comp...and I am running 11-13psi on pump gas...BUT with methanol injection (100%, no mix) and monitoring things with a wideband.
So....why can't I do that on my 22re? People talk about the little hp difference between the 22re and 22ret...well a lot of it is because the turbo has to make up for all that loss in compression to regain cylinder pressure. I only plan on running 6-7psi, just enough to bump my hp and more importantly tq up some. Even that little of boost on factory compression should be a decent improvement.

It's nothing but spark and fuel...right? So if the bottom end is as good as I am hearing it is, I should be fine as long as I keep the air/fuel ratio safe....but what about spark, will the factory set-up fire with the added fuel/cylinder pressure and colder plugs?

FYI So far I have zero invested in this...I want to figure everything out before I start spending money.

Thanks for any help,

-Jarrod

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Cary at gotpropane.com

tried4x2signN

I don't even know where to start...

1: The RTE was made to run on low test gas....

2: It was made to last...

3: Fuel, spark, knock (detonation) Depending on what you're using it for, mess with these and it's bust...

4: Your Camaro and what you're using it for has NOTHING to do with a stock 22RTE...

5: Are you going to feed your truck Meth injection? When you use high test it delays detonation till the last possible second...

6: NEVER use a stock CT20!!! NEVER spend a DIME on it... It's a relic of the 80's and a big POS... Use a CT26(?) from a Supra 7MGTE...

7: The stock exhaust mainfolds are know to crack... But they're cheap and I still see on-line parts suppliers selling them... 20, 22R and 22RE... All the same bolt pattern and manifold... in case you want to turbo another head or block...

8: Toysport says a 22R will live with 25psi... But that's a drag motor and will be getting tore down often... A STARK contrast to what anyone here wants.

9: Go to the RTE forums and surf LC Engineering...

tried4x2signN

dang! Also the stock parts don't really do as much or go as far as modern Turbo stuff... Distributor, computer, MAF... Ignition stuff..

You'll prolly have to go to Mega$quirt...

RICE ETR

Thanks for the responses.
No propane for me...but thanks anyways


1.) I thought the 22rte was made to compete with the v6 competitors until their v6 came out.
2.) of course hence the ecu controlled everything making the truck "dummy" proof unless someone screwed with the wastegate. I will have to babysit mine a little more...I am willing to deal with that.
3.) I understand this...have to deal with knock sensors on the SS.
4.) Factory n/a engine boosted with high compression, factory ecu, cast pistons, fuel, spark and meth...I'd say they were somewhat similar.
5.) Yes via the same type kit I have on my camaro, Snow Methanol kit. My camaro has the maf version which makes it nice because I actually reach the frequency limit on the pcm around 3,500rpm depending on gear and load and the snow controller ramps up meth volume based on maf readings, keeping my afr nice and safe. 7psi on the yota is so little and I am sure there will be considerably more lag than my camaro so I could use a standard pressure switch to ramp the meth up from 1-7psi....full flow may come in early in the rpms, which will be around peak torque and fine by me seeing as that is where peak cylinder pressure is and I will need the meth the most.
As with my camaro, meth provides cooling- so no intercooler with only 7psi, fueling-hence the main reason I want to run it, and octane-if meth alone is not enough for this than I wil mix with water to slow the burn down even more.
6.)Turbo is off a 2.2L volvo, 15g...got it FREE and does not need rebuilding...also saves me money on wastegate and bov since they are built in. Sized a little small but I want quick spool and tq more so than upper rpm hp.
7.)I am making my own manifold/tubing, hence the pic with the flanges I modeled and had cut on the laser...1/2" mild steel, same as the camaro and has been holding up well now for 4 years.
8.) I don't want to run 25psi....7
9.) been there, haven't found what I am looking for....and lce is $$$$$, no thanks.

I either have everything I need or at least sourced it...I just wanted a reason why no one was using meth injection on a stock 22re with turbo....it's honestly the best thing since sliced bread for boosted street cars imo.

RICE ETR

Again....you say dist...so there will be a spark blow out problem?
ECU...what's the problem? I am handling the fuel addition with meth...and monitoring it with a wb. I will set the base timing low which will help spool the turbo...win win there.
MAF...I don't have fuel cut right? So once the MAF has opened as far as it can, it will just be a restriction....additional fuel again handled by meth.
Ignition stuff...again, spark blow out? Can I put a hotter coil on, close the gap on the plug more?

tried4x2signN

LC has more than costly products... Follow the links and read the tech stuff...

If you can't find what you're looking for on the RTE forum, then ask.

The RTE was a stop gap to satisfy consumers... It was made to compete with V6's but on another level besides at the drag strip. Power or longevity, can't have both... At least back then you couldnt.. Modern technology makes a liar out of me now...

Stock computer parameters such as retard/ advance, aren't high enough to work with mods as far as I know...

annoyingrob

You can run boost on stock pistons, there are several people on the old celica forums that do. The important part is how cool you keep the air charge (which is where the meth injection cmes into play on your camaro). Do the math, and keep the turbo within its optimal efficiency range, intercool it, and hook some headphones up to your knock sensor. I run 8.5:1 on my other turbo car, my brother used to run 15psi on 9.5:1 CR.

Dipstik_90

If you figure it out let me know cause I was planing on doing this myself. But I went so far as to buy a Megasquirt diypnp kit, and I was planing an intercooler and 7mgte injectors. Would you possibly be willing to sell another one of those header flanges??

tried4x2signN

I'd love to know more about this... Or are you just joking?

I think of knock as the Debbil... That's what's going to kill you should you go high output, on a Flintstones type fuel injection


I know new Ferrari's have TWO knock sensors... not sure about anything else...

If you're talking legitimately about something, I'd love to know about it ... And it'd be a way cool place for me to start...

annoyingrob

I'm serious. A knock sensor is simply a microphone. A set of RCA inputs on any aftermarket radio actually has about the right input impedance you need. You can literally wire the knock sensor into an RCA input, and listen to the motor through your radio. Most headphones are also sensitive enough to plug directly into the knock sensor, but it may be a little quiet.

I have a headphone amplifier hooked up to the knock sensors in my car specifically so that I can listen to the motor. It's a great tool.

BTW, Toyota has been using two knock sensors on their motors since the late 80s

dfarr67

Interesting thread, but wrong venue I think- not much serious hot rodding going on here. I've been thinking about this for years- but the cost vs what the truck is worth stopped me. Look into Dynamic EFI ecm's, cheap- Rob is a wiz with the GM 7747 ecm (you might have heard of him at thirdgen ect) he has converted- I'm running it on my TPI Chevy and an adapter harness could be made for the Toy, includes IAT, boost, NO2, ect but most important gets rid of the afm and gives you map. I never found a solution for hopping up the ignition and after trying MSD, Crane, Malory's EZ, gave up- the Toy coils are tuned for the ecm.

abecedarian

Several differences between the Camaro and the Toyota EFI / ignition setups-
Camaro is OBDII, Toyota isn't technically even OBDI
Camaro is sequential injection; Toy's is batch fired: all 4 fire once per engine revolution
Camaro can adapt a/f ratio before the next injector/cylinder fires, Toyota's, because of 'batch firing' cannot
Camaro uses a different a/f control mechanism from the O2 sensor than Toyota does
Camaro can adapt timing before the next cylinder fires based on knock sensor, feedback from the ignition circuit, etc., Toyota cannot.
Camaro has distributorless ignition, Toyota uses a distributor so wastes some ignition energy in the cap/rotor
Camaro measures air-flow via a different, more accurate mechanism than Toyota's VAFM/mechanical flap

Also, 22RE compression ratio- 9.4:1, 22RET compression ratio- 7.5:1.
Many 22RE's do not have knock sensors and those that do suffer one problem- when detonation is detected, timing is dropped down to the initial setting, not dropped in steps until detonation subsides. Theoretically, with more sophisticated ignition / injection control than the 22RE or even the 22RET ECU can provide, 9.5:1 compression can be made to work with moderate boost levels but as with any engine not originally designed with such in mind, like keeping tolerances close to tight and consistant between cylinders, etc., reliability and longevity will be impacted.

tried4x2signN

uhmm... RET c/r is 7.5:1

abecedarian

Okay.
(corrected my post)

dfarr67

I think the first step is decide on a different engine management system- lots out there, just what you want to spend, saying that I also understand that these ecm's are good for 150hp before running out of their self learning- what's your target- also that will allow all sorts of ignition types to run? I found a thread regarding afm to gm maf conversion- I am about to do the Supra afm conversion but am very interested in the maf instead- retaining all plugs in case you have to switch back to afm of course. I wonder if you would run water injection...

tried4x2signN

It makes me sick when I drive my GF's car... A Audi TT 1st edition, Turbo, AWD...

I can feel the stroke that engine has and can not see why a 2.4L 22R can't get that HP/ Trq...

It's even a Bosch system IIRC... And not only that! But a different ECU and C:R TT has 225hp! FROM THE SAME 1.8L ENGINE!!!

http://www.audittcca.com/help/faq/wh...-225hp-engines


ticks me off!... well, that and the 30mpg highway...

abecedarian

The EFI system on the 22RE's was developed in the early/mid 80s when CPU's were approaching 2MHz speeds.
Need I say more?

tried4x2signN

uhhh, yes...

dfarr67

Better ecu, way better heads- built with performance in mind......Look what Toyota was putting in their cars in the 80's and 90's, 180hp from a 2.0L inline 6, 380hp from a 3L, easy to turn up the wick I'm sure too. Too bad the trucks lost out. There is a 2L for sale in Vancouver for $1k- ecu, trans, turbos, intercooler, the works- not enough hp though for all the work transplanting.