Truck starts but quits running in 2 seconds.

stevenbrick · 01-02-2009, 12:11 PM

I have checked the fuel pressure from the pump, and that shows 40 psi. I checked the diagnostic code from the check engine light. The code given is "12" (RPM signal) No Ne and G signal to ECU within 2 seconds after starting. Fault area suggested in Haynes manual is distributor circuit, distributor, starter signal circuit or ECU. I checked the pickup coil ohms/resistance and that is within tolerance. The coil has been checked and also swapped out with a new coil. The resistance in the coil is good and the new coil did not help either so the old coil was put back in. Now I am suspecting the igniter on top of the coil but there is no diagnostic approach in the Haynes manual to check it to see if it is bad or good. Any suggestions?

Thank you,

Steven
1988 SR5 22re EFI non turbo
stevenbrick@hotmail.com

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91Toyota · 01-02-2009, 12:15 PM

year/engine?

stevenbrick · 01-02-2009, 12:31 PM

1988 22re fuel injected (2.4L non turbo)

Shawn6string · 01-02-2009, 12:45 PM

I found that if the mass air flow or air box is not in place that it will do that. The mass air flow has a flapper that sends a signal to the fuel pump, with little info of what you have done I'm not sure.

Windsor · 01-02-2009, 12:51 PM

Sounds like a loose/broken wire between coil and ECU.

abecedarian · 01-02-2009, 01:04 PM

check all the connectors around the ignitor for any condensation or corrosion and also verify the terminals are firmly seated in the plugs.

muddpigg · 01-02-2009, 03:59 PM

What did you do to truck prior to this condition.

I'll add to what the others said.

Get a test light for your injectors, see if their getting a signal to squirt. Sounds like cold start is starting engine but the other aint squirting. Check ground

stevenbrick · 01-03-2009, 05:06 AM

Ok, I will get a test light for the injectors. I tried the diagnostic bypass jumper for the MAF but that did not make it run yesterday. The motor will run if I spray starter fluid up the throttle body throat. This tells me I think, that the ignition system is in good shape, but I agree that the fuel injectors are not squirting.

abecedarian · 01-03-2009, 06:20 AM

"...diagnostic bypass jumper for the MAF..."? (I think you meant AFM-air flow meter but that's just semantics.) What jumper? Do you mean jumpering the fuel pump terminal in the diagnostic connector to activate the pump? Also, (and you probably know this) you have to have the duct from the throttle body to the AFM connected or it will not turn the fuel pump on.
The code gives you a good idea of what's wrong: the ECU is not getting the signal from the distributor signalling the engine is turning. The ignitor is aware the engine is rotating which is why it will run with starting fluid, but the signal is not being passed to the ECU for some reason. The ECU will not fire the injectors if it doesn't receive that signal and this is why the engine dies after a couple seconds. The cold start injector is supplying enough fuel for the engine to start and the ignitor is firing the plugs. But since the ECU doesn't get the NE signal the injectors are not triggered because the ECU cannot determine the engine rpms, how much fuel to inject and when to fire them.

Shawn6string · 01-03-2009, 06:47 AM

"you have to have the duct from the throttle body to the AFM connected or it will not turn the fuel pump on." is correct. The reason I posted that is because I tried to crank mine for a couple of hours before i remembered reading in the manual that the AFM supplied a signal to the fuel pump, or maybe it supplies it to the ECM first. I could shoot gas and ether in there and it would run for a few seconds then cut off. But I knew it would run because I already had it running before hand with the AFM connected. I knew it was something simple. It sounds like a fuel problem, If your pump is pumping fuel it could be injectors but bypassing the MAP or AFM or even trying a known good would not be a bad idea. There again I could be totally off on your problem. Abecedarian seems to be on the right track.

Shawn6string · 01-03-2009, 07:06 AM

Also try removing the air filter, if there isn't enough air moving across the AFM to move the flap the pump might not be getting a signal. Try verifing that the pump is pumping fuel and you have the correct fuel pressure at the injectors .

jsn_stockard · 01-03-2009, 07:20 AM

Make sure your 02 sensor is getting a good connection. I snagged my 02 wires on a log once and my truck wouldn't run more than a few seconds at a time.

iamsuperbleeder · 01-03-2009, 08:18 AM

AFM is the first thing I first thought; my 91 will do the exact same thing if it's unplugged

rangerruck · 01-03-2009, 09:44 AM

I also agree with AFM stuff; i had my cable just slightly unplugged, and i got the 2 second run as well.

stevenbrick · 01-06-2009, 01:55 PM

I used my multi-meter to ohm out the AFM. The resistance readings I measured on the AFM tabs were all infinity (an open condition) instead of what my Haynes manual was showing I should measure. I am going to replace the AFM and let you folks know what happens. Thank you for all the great suggestions. I thought MAF stood for Mass Air Flow sensor but I guess I should have said AFM for Air Flow Meter? Sorry for confusion!

Steven

abecedarian · 01-06-2009, 03:49 PM

heck with haynes. do this:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml

toyota4x4907 · 01-06-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abecedarian

heck with haynes. do this:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml

edit: My eyes were cold. I thought the "drama llama" smiley said good posting.

iamsuperbleeder · 01-06-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenbrick

I thought MAF stood for Mass Air Flow sensor but I guess I should have said AFM for Air Flow Meter? Sorry for confusion!

Correct; our Toyota's (well, 22re's and 3.0's anyway) have a mechanical meter, as you have probably already found out, giving it the "Air Flow Meter", or AFM, name. They have a trap door that opens and moves depending out how much air is flowing through. The more air moving through it, the farther it opens. Under that little black lid on the top of the AFM are the electronics that measure how far that trap door's opening, and sends the info to the computer.

The flow through type found on most newer models, most simply called "Mass Air Flow" sensor, or MAF, have just a sencor that sits directly in the flow of air, and measures the amount of passing air that way. It causes less restriction in the air flow, and there's no moving parts so there's less to break.

Ironically though, both are pretty pricy to replace

let us know how it turns out!

muddpigg · 01-06-2009, 05:14 PM

You can run around and check a little of this and alittle of that and not get to anywhere. You can even start pulling and replacing parts left and right but never solve the problem. Three things are needed for an engine to run fuel, air, and fire. Now start narrowing it down.

iamsuperbleeder · 01-06-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muddpigg

You can run around and check a little of this and alittle of that and not get to anywhere. You can even start pulling and replacing parts left and right but never solve the problem. Three things are needed for an engine to run fuel, air, and fire. Now start narrowing it down.

well, the AFM uses the moving air going into the engine to keep it supplied with fuel

it's obviously got fire if it runs for a second

aparently, fuel and air are presesnt as well (for a limited time obviously), because as you claimed, an engine just wont run without them; since it does fire up for a couple seconds, then I guess they're there

but the "2 second run" sounds typical of a malfuctioning or disconnected AFM

go unplug yours, I bet it'll do the exact same thing as what he describes

toyota4x4907 · 01-06-2009, 06:06 PM

My '88 did that when I first bought it, but I got code 32, instead of 12 like the OP said. All I did was unplug the AFM plug, blow on it and plug it back in. It fired right up. I even bought a $15 multimeter to check everything

iamsuperbleeder · 01-06-2009, 06:09 PM

yet another AFM supporting responce

muddpigg · 01-06-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamsuperbleeder

well, the AFM uses the moving air going into the engine to keep it supplied with fuel

it's obviously got fire if it runs for a second

aparently, fuel and air are presesnt as well (for a limited time obviously), because as you claimed, an engine just wont run without them; since it does fire up for a couple seconds, then I guess they're there

but the "2 second run" sounds typical of a malfuctioning or disconnected AFM

go unplug yours, I bet it'll do the exact same thing as what he describes

Interesting jest on your part. I bet if you went out to your rig and disconnected the groung attach to the intake manifold it would do the same thing. So if only the cold start injector fires it runs for 2 sec.

So pardon me didn't realise your depth of knowledge on the 22re.

abecedarian · 01-06-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenbrick

>snip<
I checked the diagnostic code from the check engine light. The code given is "12" (no RPM signal within 2 seconds after starting).
>snip<

Last I checked the AFM doesn't send an RPM signal to the ECU.

iamsuperbleeder · 01-06-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muddpigg

Interesting jest on your part. I bet if you went out to your rig and disconnected the groung attach to the intake manifold it would do the same thing. So if only the cold start injector fires it runs for 2 sec.

So pardon me didn't realise your depth of knowledge on the 22re.

well I haven't had issues with ground wires myself; I'm only speaking on my experiences here

01-02-2009, 12:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
91Toyota Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 2,484	year/engine? __________________ 1991 Pickup - STD Cab - 22re - 5spd - 2wd - DD - Cobra CB w/4ft whip - Hella 500ff - 27" swampers - Aussie locker 1989 Pickup - STD Cab - 22r - 4spd - blown HG

01-02-2009, 12:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
stevenbrick Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Taos, NM USA Posts: 9	year/engine 1988 22re fuel injected (2.4L non turbo)

01-02-2009, 12:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
Shawn6string Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 130	I found that if the mass air flow or air box is not in place that it will do that. The mass air flow has a flapper that sends a signal to the fuel pump, with little info of what you have done I'm not sure. __________________ 88 4runner 3. don't know--- project 88 4runner 4 cyl auto - Bone stock Plus BFG 31/10/50 JACK'EM HIGH CAUSE FAT CHICKS CAN'T CLIMB Shawn

01-02-2009, 12:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Windsor Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: DFW, Texas! Posts: 534	Sounds like a loose/broken wire between coil and ECU. __________________ '87 T4R Deluxe, mall crawler every non-SR5 option installed (sans AT), as well as: * Cruise Control (dealer installed) * Michelin LTX A/T2 31s on 1st-gen alloy rims * SmittyBilt granny step bar * SR5 Instrument Cluster

01-02-2009, 01:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
abecedarian Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Somewhere 'round Nashville, TN. Posts: 9,878	check all the connectors around the ignitor for any condensation or corrosion and also verify the terminals are firmly seated in the plugs. __________________ Insomnia: it's a way of life. Ever notice "tupac" spelled backwards is "caput"? Meet me on Zune.

01-02-2009, 03:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: OIF- Operation Iraqi Freedom Posts: 923	What did you do to truck prior to this condition. I'll add to what the others said. Get a test light for your injectors, see if their getting a signal to squirt. Sounds like cold start is starting engine but the other aint squirting. Check ground __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY http://www.texas4x4.org/image.php?u=...ine=1224191421

01-03-2009, 05:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
stevenbrick Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Taos, NM USA Posts: 9	Ok, I will get a test light for the injectors. I tried the diagnostic bypass jumper for the MAF but that did not make it run yesterday. The motor will run if I spray starter fluid up the throttle body throat. This tells me I think, that the ignition system is in good shape, but I agree that the fuel injectors are not squirting.

01-03-2009, 06:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
abecedarian Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Somewhere 'round Nashville, TN. Posts: 9,878	"...diagnostic bypass jumper for the MAF..."? (I think you meant AFM-air flow meter but that's just semantics.) What jumper? Do you mean jumpering the fuel pump terminal in the diagnostic connector to activate the pump? Also, (and you probably know this) you have to have the duct from the throttle body to the AFM connected or it will not turn the fuel pump on. The code gives you a good idea of what's wrong: the ECU is not getting the signal from the distributor signalling the engine is turning. The ignitor is aware the engine is rotating which is why it will run with starting fluid, but the signal is not being passed to the ECU for some reason. The ECU will not fire the injectors if it doesn't receive that signal and this is why the engine dies after a couple seconds. The cold start injector is supplying enough fuel for the engine to start and the ignitor is firing the plugs. But since the ECU doesn't get the NE signal the injectors are not triggered because the ECU cannot determine the engine rpms, how much fuel to inject and when to fire them. __________________ Insomnia: it's a way of life. Ever notice "tupac" spelled backwards is "caput"? Meet me on Zune.

01-03-2009, 06:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
Shawn6string Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 130	"you have to have the duct from the throttle body to the AFM connected or it will not turn the fuel pump on." is correct. The reason I posted that is because I tried to crank mine for a couple of hours before i remembered reading in the manual that the AFM supplied a signal to the fuel pump, or maybe it supplies it to the ECM first. I could shoot gas and ether in there and it would run for a few seconds then cut off. But I knew it would run because I already had it running before hand with the AFM connected. I knew it was something simple. It sounds like a fuel problem, If your pump is pumping fuel it could be injectors but bypassing the MAP or AFM or even trying a known good would not be a bad idea. There again I could be totally off on your problem. Abecedarian seems to be on the right track. __________________ 88 4runner 3. don't know--- project 88 4runner 4 cyl auto - Bone stock Plus BFG 31/10/50 JACK'EM HIGH CAUSE FAT CHICKS CAN'T CLIMB Shawn

01-03-2009, 07:06 AM	#11 (permalink)
Shawn6string Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 130	Also try removing the air filter, if there isn't enough air moving across the AFM to move the flap the pump might not be getting a signal. Try verifing that the pump is pumping fuel and you have the correct fuel pressure at the injectors . __________________ 88 4runner 3. don't know--- project 88 4runner 4 cyl auto - Bone stock Plus BFG 31/10/50 JACK'EM HIGH CAUSE FAT CHICKS CAN'T CLIMB Shawn

01-03-2009, 07:20 AM	#12 (permalink)
jsn_stockard Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gainesville Texas Posts: 443	Make sure your 02 sensor is getting a good connection. I snagged my 02 wires on a log once and my truck wouldn't run more than a few seconds at a time. __________________ www.stockardmaintenancesolution.com "Toyota trucks are good enough for the Taliban, they're good enough for me. (Not condoning terrorists) but saying they are as tough as a bag of hammers and keep going even if you live in a cave thousands of miles from a dealership. Think about it... " 4runnermt

01-03-2009, 08:18 AM	#13 (permalink)
iamsuperbleeder Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Titusville, Florida Posts: 4,220	AFM is the first thing I first thought; my 91 will do the exact same thing if it's unplugged __________________ 91 PU, 4wd, 22re, dual Optimas, K&N Filter, Pacesetter header and full exhaust kit, minor suspension tweaks (small turn on the t-bars, WabFab shackles), 31x10.5 Pavement Pounding ATs on ProComp Extreme Alloys, and some misc SR5 interior goodies swapped in. Currently undergoing an engine rebuild! .30-over, engbldr Street RV head, 261 Crawler Cam, MC HD Clutch, and misc other LCE, engnbldr, and MC parts and HW MySpace

01-03-2009, 09:44 AM	#14 (permalink)
rangerruck Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 169	I also agree with AFM stuff; i had my cable just slightly unplugged, and i got the 2 second run as well.

01-06-2009, 01:55 PM	#15 (permalink)
stevenbrick Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Taos, NM USA Posts: 9	I ohmed out the AFM? I used my multi-meter to ohm out the AFM. The resistance readings I measured on the AFM tabs were all infinity (an open condition) instead of what my Haynes manual was showing I should measure. I am going to replace the AFM and let you folks know what happens. Thank you for all the great suggestions. I thought MAF stood for Mass Air Flow sensor but I guess I should have said AFM for Air Flow Meter? Sorry for confusion! Steven

01-06-2009, 03:49 PM	#16 (permalink)
abecedarian Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Somewhere 'round Nashville, TN. Posts: 9,878	heck with haynes. do this: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml __________________ Insomnia: it's a way of life. Ever notice "tupac" spelled backwards is "caput"? Meet me on Zune.

01-06-2009, 05:14 PM	#19 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: OIF- Operation Iraqi Freedom Posts: 923	You can run around and check a little of this and alittle of that and not get to anywhere. You can even start pulling and replacing parts left and right but never solve the problem. Three things are needed for an engine to run fuel, air, and fire. Now start narrowing it down. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY http://www.texas4x4.org/image.php?u=...ine=1224191421

01-06-2009, 06:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
toyota4x4907 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska Posts: 1,827	My '88 did that when I first bought it, but I got code 32, instead of 12 like the OP said. All I did was unplug the AFM plug, blow on it and plug it back in. It fired right up. I even bought a $15 multimeter to check everything __________________ '95 4runner\|22re\|5spd\|126K miles\|2" BL\| 31x10.5 '88 4runner\|22re\|5spd\|206K miles\|Sold '93 single cab\|22re\|5spd\|150K miles\|Sold\| Pro IFS

01-06-2009, 06:09 PM	#22 (permalink)
iamsuperbleeder Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Titusville, Florida Posts: 4,220	yet another AFM supporting responce __________________ 91 PU, 4wd, 22re, dual Optimas, K&N Filter, Pacesetter header and full exhaust kit, minor suspension tweaks (small turn on the t-bars, WabFab shackles), 31x10.5 Pavement Pounding ATs on ProComp Extreme Alloys, and some misc SR5 interior goodies swapped in. Currently undergoing an engine rebuild! .30-over, engbldr Street RV head, 261 Crawler Cam, MC HD Clutch, and misc other LCE, engnbldr, and MC parts and HW MySpace

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