daved5150

iTrader: (1)

I just want to see what you guys think of the factory maintenance schedele for the 22re's and 3vze's. Schedele A is for severe use and recommends changing the oil/filter every 3750 miles. Sch.B is for normal use and recommends changing the oil/filter every 7500 miles. That is what I based my change interval of 5000 miles on. I started doing that in 2006 when I bought my first Yota, my 88 4Runner.

I am wondering if anyone has gone the full 7500 miles on a DD? I have been running a Filtermag on all my vehicle's oil filters now for probably at least eight years or so. I feel confident enough to go longer because of the metal grit that gets held on the inside walls of the filter by the Filtermag.

Any thoughts, opinions and facts here would be appreciated. Post up please....

bmcghie

My 3vze has 246000km on it, and I change the 5w30 synthetic every 10000km... um, 6000 miles. I also use the taller toyota filter, the D3 one.

Used oil analysis confirms this is probably spoiling my engine a bit.

nothingbetter

Those factory oil change guides are useless when the engine gets to be a certain age. The only way to know for sure is to get your oil analyzed and see how its holding up. It can be different for two identical engines. Just depends on condition.

abecedarian

My truck burns some oil. I keep it topped up. I change the filter after I've had to add somewhere around 2 quarts oil since the last filter change.

I think of it like a perpetual flush.

"G"

If you are running a magnetic drain plug and good oil 5k should be fine. Also a good filter like denso or toyota.

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for posting guys. I never saw a thread on here about this and I looked. I bought my 1988 4Runner off Ebay in April 2006 for $936. She had over 158000 miles. I keep a little notebook on every vehicle I own and keep track of oil changes, parts r & r, maintenance, etc. These figures here are from my Yota notepad:

Got her home from PA where I bought her and changed oil with Redline 10w30/K&N filter #1002 at 159150 miles.

These are the oil/filter changes intervals. I just used the mileage on the oil when I changed it again. Any questions, let me know.



8205 miles


7159 miles



6338 miles



6398 miles



6108 miles



6174 miles



5361 miles



4443 miles



3411 miles



2571 miles



2126 miles



2895 miles



**3013 miles

**This was the last oil change at 223352 miles. Towards the end I changed the oil more frequently because of the H/G issue. She is now sitting with 225247 miles because she was overheating and burning up coolant because the head gasket got worse. I ran her the way she was because she was a 900 dollar truck. I just kept up on adding fluid for the cooling system.

My point is this: I added over 66,000 miles on this truck by following the factory oil change interval. I ran over the 7500 mile interval once on the first oil change with the Redline oil. But I did change the filter with 2941 miles on the filter. If any one has any questions on the oil used or filters, let me know.

I also ran a Condensator on this truck pretty much from the beginning. It is essentially an airline dryer filter which runs between the PCV valve and the intake which keeps all the crankcase crap out of the throttle body to keep the intake charge going into the engine cleaner. After I installed it on my 88, the truck started better and would take off ramps from the highway in higher gears then what it did before. I have it on my 94 4Runner now and it keeps that stuff out of the intake.


You can build your own which at the time I bought it, I didn't know. Check out this link:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showt...?t=6417&page=4

An older gentleman from Montana I believe invited this some years ago. He passed away and the technology was bought by this company:

http://www.worldnci.com/

They are charging more than what he charged.

I also had a Filtermag on the oil filter from the beginning also. I used a K&N #1002 and then switched to the taller #2009. I also used Mobil 1 #M1-209 filters also. I believe in the Filtermag because I have the first filter I had it on in my 96 Ford pickup which I cut open to show the metal grit that the filter misses sticking on the side of the filter. I will post pics later because I am at work now.

I was just curious to see what others thought of the higher factory oil change recommendations. I just think that some people change the oil way too early than is needed. That 88 22re ran strong but that H/G was too bad. I just think the Filtermag is cheap insurance and common sense. It keeps the oil cleaner by keeping out all the metal particles that cause wear in the engine. Therefore running the oil longer wouldn't be a problem. Just my $0.02. Here's the site:

http://www.shopfiltermag.com/

http://www.summitracing.com/search/B...ew=ProductName

I would love to have had an oil analysis done at some point on that truck. Maybe I will have to do it on my 94 to see where this stands. That was a motor with over 150000 miles on it when I got it, so doing the longer changes did not bother it. As long as compression is good and the motor is running well, the motor is not using a lot of oil and the fuel mileage is where it's supposed to be....I don't see anything wrong with going longer on the changes. Thanks for reading.

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

Here's the first oil filter that I ran the Filtermag on...from my Ford f350 351W. I'm gonna buy a oil filter cutter from Summit so I can start cutting open the filters from the 94. I'm also going to buy one of these so I can easily take samples from the oil pan:

http://www.qwikvalve.com/?utm_source...oil-drain-plug

so I can run the extended oil change intervals and know for sure what's in the oil when I get the oil analyzed and post here.

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

And here's the Condensator which runs between the PCV valve and the intake...I have filled a gallon bottle of black crud from the Ford and both Yotas which was kept out of those engines by these...I have a second bottle started now. I have kept the full bottle to show people. Who wants to send that stuff into the engine and try to burn it off?

"G"

I wouldn't waste any $ on the fumoto valve. You are better of putting it towards a magnetic drain plug. Also these catch cans are much better and more compact >> http://www.saikoumichi.com/OCC_explanation.htm

Dirt Driver

Personally, I think the "normal" 7500mi OCI is generous enough for most peoples' driving. I have personally seen a 22RE go 280,000mi+ on OCIs exceeding that by a large margin. IMO, oil is one of the things that people worry about way too much.

I go by the factory 7500mi interval and even that is probably excessive for the type of driving I do.

Keith B.

Is there any actual evidence that the metal particles that the magnets catch on the inside of the oil filter would have escaped from the oil filter? If the filter catches small, invisible-to-the-naked-eye particles, then it would easily catch these visible metal shavings, right?

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

Appreciate the info. Yea, I guess having one of those valves hanging down like that would be pretty easy to get it ripped off if I wanted to get her muddy off road...I guess I could still get oil out for a sample for testing. Just top it back off and make sure the pan is clean before opening the drain. I really wouldn't want to spend money on a magnetic drain plug as I think I have that covered with the Filtermag....I put a magnetic plug on my transfer case and the tranny I believe in my 88. I'll have to do it for the 94. I already have the Condensators which are paid for and working, but I definitely want to check that site out...

I think so too. I'm just glad that someone else has that opinion also. If any one had any concerns about the filter, you could just change the filter half way through and top it back off. Thanks, DD.

Check out the link I have for Filtermag here:

http://www.shopfiltermag.com/tech.php#technology

There's info there. The dirty oil comes into the filter through the center hole, passes through the filtering media and then goes along the outside walls to the holes found along the outside of the plate...so yes, the grit you see along the walls would be flowing back into the motor with the "clean" oil. Filters are not made to catch the smaller particles because the engine would not be supplied with enough oil and would burn up.

From Filtermag's site:

Modern oil filters remove particles by forcing the oil through paper-based media with very small ports. The technology behind this filtering media is a compromise that has remained relatively unchanged since the 1930s. While oil is necessary to remove these damaging particles, it is equally important that it flows back into the engine fast enough to lubricate all the moving parts.

A perfect oil filter media would stop all the particles down to 1-micron (about 1/70th the thickness of a human hair). Unfortunately, a filter with ports that small would also restrict the oil from returning to the engine fast enough, resulting in catastrophic equipment failure.

Filter media developments over the years have certainly increased the life cycle for oil filtration cartridges, but fluid dynamics require the ports in the media to remain 25-micron or larger.

Good read also: http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom7.shtml

and here: http://www.precisionenginetech.com/t...lters-exposed/

From this page: http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar797.htm:

CLEARANCES

Proper clearances are another factor that are extremely important bearing longevity and oil pressure. Crankshaft bearings generally need at least a .0001 inch thick oil film between themselves and their journals to prevent metal-to-metal contact. This requires assembly clearances that are loose enough so oil can flow into the gap between the bearing and journal to form an oil wedge that can support the crankshaft. The clearance must also be sufficient to allow enough oil flow to cool the bearings. But the clearance must not be too great otherwise the oil will escape before it can form a supporting wedge.

Now if the "Patented FilterMAG™ Oil Filter Magnet Technology Removes Steel Particles As Small As 2-Microns from Engine Oil." , then go to the

Link to convert microns to inches: http://calculator-converter.com/micr...calculator.php

So converting .0001 inches to microns using the link, you get 2.54 microns. And if Filtermag holds the 2 micron particles out of the oil, that means that everything smaller than 2 microns will fit through the clearances without causing wear.

"G"

That filter mag may work but I guarantee it does not get everything, install a magnetic drain plug and you will see it holding a lot of iron at 7500 mile oil changes.

Dirt Driver

You know what's funny? Back in the dark ages(1960s at least) when a factory recommended drain interval was 3000mi, the recommended filter replacement might be every other oil change instead of vice versa.

As far as magnets go, I suppose they have the benefit of keeping debris from blocking the filter media, but only if it's ferrous. Plastic, aluminum, bronze, copper, rubber, etc will still pass on by. Magnetic plugs are (were?) often used by manufacturers where there is no filtration system such as with manual transmissions and differentials. I don't think that there should be an appreciable amount of iron accumulating in a healthy, worn-in engine, though.

I read this again and it should be clarified. I meant that I could likely go longer than 7500mi.

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

I put a magnetic plug in both the tranny and transfer case on my 88 but never got one for the oil pan. After thinking about it, I'm going to buy one for the oil pan for the 94. It just makes sense to have one in there as everything in the oil will fall to the bottom, right? I found a couple of different sites for the magnetic pan plugs:

http://magneticdrainplug.com/Automot...l#.UBfcoaBcKIA

http://www.advancespeedshop.com/blox...7-p-15284.html

http://www.teammfactory.com/magnetic-drain-plugs


Since the "dark ages", oil technology has come a long way. The oil of today is way more advanced then the oil of yesterday, more advanced and complex additive packages, etc....while filters have stayed pretty much the same except for maybe different filter media types. The filters have to stay pretty much the same as they were years ago...big enough pores in the filter to allow for proper flow of oil to prevent engine failure and in doing that, allows the smaller stuff to flow through the filter to the engine with the "clean" oil. So the Filtermag is in effect, not keeping the filter unplugged, but holding the particles that are going through the media pores which are bigger than those particles. To add even more filtration, a bypass filter can be used...which I am going to consider once I rebuild the 22re in the 94. Check here:

http://www.frantzoil.com/home.html

http://www.wefilterit.com/

I know that the Filtermag only holds the ferrous material and that it's use is not "absolute." There are still the non-ferrous material in the oil which tells the story of the motor and its condition. I just feel that by using the Filtermag, I keep more ferrous particles out of the oil and feel more confident going longer on my changes because of it. You want to be surprised, DD...order a Filtermag and run it on your next oil change. You will be surprised what you will find on the walls of that oil filter when you cut it open....

And by using the Condensator, I keep all the moisture, oil and blowby etc. out of the intake keeping it, the motor and oil cleaner also making me feel more confident going longer on my oil changes.

I think more transmissions, power steering systems, differentials, etc. should be running some sort of filtration system along with some magnetic capability on it. On my F350, I ran a remote filter system for my automatic transmission from dieselsite.com that had a Baldwin filter with a Filtermag on it. Now I know that an auto tranny has alot of non-ferrous stuff in it, but I felt better with it on. It had a bypass built into it in case the filter plugged up. It was a nice set up. These systems last pretty long without a filter...but would last that much longer with it.

Appreciate your input here.

"G"

Per your own link:

Here’s a surprise: the filtering media does not actually filter.

Yup, that’s right. The filtering media does not actually filter. Remember the oil bath air cleaners of the ’40s and ’50s? If you’re old enough to remember them, you may or may not be aware that they worked by forcing incoming air to follow an “S”-shaped route past a trough of engine oil. The concept was, the air could easily follow the turns, while the heavier particles of dirt and debris couldn’t make the turn, and momentum would carry the grit straight into the oil, where it was held hostage until someone dumped the dirty oil and replenished it.

Believe it or not, that’s actually how modern oil filters work. The filtering media does not act like a screen, but rather traps contaminants that cannot change direction easily. Of course, explains Purolator’s Nuñez, today’s oil filter media is very sophisticated, and much science has gone into its design and construction. The design of the media determines how small a particle can be held, and how much capacity the filter has for holding debris.

Dirt Driver

Which link says that?

abecedarian

This thread sure went off course.

Dirt Driver

Oil threads usually do, regardless of forum or vehicle.

"G"

daved5150 you should try reading the links you are re-posting from other forums. http://www.precisionenginetech.com/t...lters-exposed/