remy

We have a trip planned from CO to FL (with a stop in TX). We have a 1994 4Runner 3.0 5Spd 4WD with recently new tires (cooper discover AT3). Ok so we recently bought a small trailer that claimed to be 800lbs, turns out it is 1700lbs empty (we went and weighed it). We can still tow it but I know our truck won't like it.

So we are supposed to leave tomorrow. There is a winter storm coming through over Raton Pass on the CO/NM border on Sunday and Monday. My S/O feels that we will be fine to drive through, it's an easy pass and we have 4WD and good new tires. I feel that it is incredibly dangerous, we have very little experience towing, this trailer is heavier than we thought, it does not have trailer brakes, and we would be driving into a snowstorm. I may be underestimating what we can handle and over-worrying, I know it's an easy pass normally, but I feel we have the deck stacked against us, and I'm not a big fan of towing because I find it pretty stressful (but it's a necessity for us for our work, we travel all year).

So please let me know what you think about our towing capabilities. How necessary are trailer brakes in general? I know it wouldn't hurt to have them but do we need them? If we go around Raton Pass or wait out the storm should we be just fine? We will be late for where we need to be, or possibly just have a very stressful drive trying to make it on time, if we wait to leave until Tuesday. However it is not worth risking our lives to be there on time. So please give me some insight on this situation. Thank you!!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

First if your nervous about towing why do you do it??

If your danger signal is going off might be a good idea to pay attention

My Theory is only a idiot leaves food and warmth when a Blizzard is coming

Except for those of us that needed to be out getting the roads open police medical personal etc

Much better to be sitting at home then along or on the Road waiting to get the over passes dug out unless you enjoy that type of thing

First if your trailer is empty at 1700 pounds just what is the loaded weight going to be

That really is the factor that comes into play

It is not so much the pulling as the stopping in any conditions

The trailer is going to push the 4Runner in slippery conditions even more if it had brakes chains help coming down off passes

Your talking about the pass on Interstate 25 Things change over the years but in my Mountain west days if things were to bad they shut the gates on the highway

Only you can make the call Just curious why you were not out of Colorado Friday Afternoon ??

Unless you were waiting for something to be finished it is going to be a long wet trip to Florida

RJR

I have the same '94 4runner as you, essentially. I have a 2200lb (loaded) pop-up w/o brakes that I've towed over the Rockies (Monarch pass) several times, and gotten along just fine. It's slow, but if you shift to 2nd and run at 4000 rpms, you can hold 40 mph up almost any grade. It's also important to downshift on the downgrades and run in a gear that will hold the vehicle plus trailer to a safe speed with minimal braking. That may mean running downhill at 35-40 mph in 2nd gear as well.

That being said, that was in the summer/fall when the roads were good, and I've had 30 years experience in towing that or similar trailers through the Colorado mountains. Point is, if the 4runner is in good shape, it will handle that trailer fine on dry roads. The 4runner weighs about 4500 lbs loaded, so it outweighs the trailer 2:1. Raton pass isn't particularly steep or long, so it isn't that much of a barrier.

However, I would not suggest you tackle Raton pass with snow on it or in a blizzard. I wouldn't do it, even if I was pulling the trailer with my Suburban. Jack-knifing is just too easy and the results are too often tragic. It would be much better to wait until the blizzard is past, CDOT has had time to clear and sand the road (which they do pretty quickly), and then make your trip. And, do it in the daylight.

Be smart, be cautious, be safe.

Nervo19

I agree with RJR. My only similar experience is towing an empty 19' boat trailer on interstate with the '89 4Runner (22RE). It was February and there was an unexpected snow storm. I had my younger son with me. I will never forget it we were travelling in VA and NC flat land. Cars were going too fast and skidding off the road. Obviously we made it but I would never do it again. It turns out we passed a fatality.

remy

The only reason to leave now is because we have work next weekend, we travel for a living. It's a lot easier staying in a camper than a tent. But we are a little new to towing (only done if a few times but we are good careful drivers so we try to respect our limits). If we don't leave Sunday we can leave Tuesday, but that will make the trip a little more difficult to arrive on time, but still possible. We need to arrive on Friday at least just early enough to setup. Of course we didn't know about this storm early enough to change our plans and leave even earlier.

I guess what I am saying is that we are going for work, not for fun. If this was just fun camping I wouldn't go at all...lol. I would much rather stay home!

We are going to try to only load the trailer up to 2000 and the rest in our car. Will stop at a weigh station and redistribute as necessary to get a good balance.

We we will get chains for the trailer for sure, and we might bypass Raton Pass, but it still isn't good weather and a different route is unfamiliar. However I don't want to take the pass at all in bad weather. But even if we take a different route, the weather is still an issue. Are we screwed without trailer brakes? Or if we drive like grandmas, SUPER cautious and with lots of stopping room, is it feasible? These are the questions that we are pouring over endlessly. Or do we just leave the trailer and go? Ugh. Just a lot of factors that make it so complicated and on such short notice.

L5wolvesf

I can't speak for your 4Runner but I can regarding towing and towing in and around CO. I don't like towing anything without trailer brakes unless it is very light. I towed a loaded trailer in a blizzard when I moved to CO once it took forever and no one was around to help if I had a problem. I towed a small race car (1400 lbs) over Wolf Creek many times in good weather - no trailer brakes at that time. I got the truck's brakes too hot once. Luckily there is (or was) a pull out about half way down and I did a couple laps around it until I go it stopped. If it had been wet or snowy I probably would have been a newspaper story. If you can easily go around Raton and you must leave tomorrow - go around. If you can get brakes put on the trailer do it - no reason not to really.

remy

Thank you. I appreciate hearing about your experience towing on dry roads without brakes. That's kind of where I'm at. If we go around the Pass, and baby if the whole way, do you think we could do it? We will check the surrounding weather as well. And we will bring chains for the trailer, to hopefully add some traction. Believe me I don't want to make this drive, but we need to for work if at all possible.... but if we leave Sunday we have enough time to take it very slow. I don't care if we are crawling if we are safe.

remy

i just don't know if we have time to get brakes, even if we wait until Tuesday, because this was a very recent trailer purchase and we were told it was 800lbs. Come to find out it is 1700lbs and shame on me for not insisting on proof. Thank god I insisted on weighing it on the way home. I've learned my lesson but now this is where I'm at. It's already the weekend and Monday is a holiday. It just might be hard to find what we need and someone to do it. We can make it on time if we leave Tuesday morning. No matter what day we leave I think we have decided for sure to sKip Raton Pass and go around it. If it's a death sentence to go without brakes obviously I am not going to do it. But if it's possible with a lot of caution, I don't mind taking it slow and easy and being extra extra careful, going around Raton Pass.

RJR

Without brakes on the trailer, you don't need chains on the trailer, because it won't skid. You need them on the tow vehicle, especially the rear, to keep the rear from skidding and jackknifing.

Don't let the work vs. fun thing influence you. The only question you should be considering is, can I do this safely? My concern is two fold. First, trailers on slick roads can be a handful. Second, you admittedly have little experience at this sort of thing.

If I were you, I'd stay in motels this trip and get your trailering experience in the spring, when the weather is more forgiving. If you can't afford motels, how are you planning to afford a possible ER visit, a totaled vehicle, and a destroyed trailer?

I used to fly single engine airplanes (private, instrument rated), and kept close track of the accident reports. The classic accident recipe was bad weather, inexperience, and "have to get there today". That combination will kill you. Don't be that guy.

RJR

One more thing about brakes. There is no excuse for overheating your brakes on a downgrade. That's just poor driving technique, and trailer brakes are only a partial protection against that - you can overheat them, too. Your brakes are designed to bring your vehicle to a stop from highway speeds - once - not for controlling speeds on 4 mile long 7% downgrades. No braking system made can handle that kind of a heat load. You simply have to downshift into a gear where engine braking can control your speed. If that means going downhill at 20 mph, that's how you have to do it.

A good rule of thumb is that, if you are having to apply your brakes more often than about once every 20-30 seconds to control your speed, you need to shift down to the next gear.

18 wheelers have "jake brakes", which modify engine valve timing to greatly increase engine braking effectiveness. That's how they are able to safely descend long mountain passes at 50-60 mph. Without that, they'd be crawling downhill at 15-20 mph, or be sitting in a runaway truck ramp.

remy

Thank you for all of your information. And you are right, safety is the number one priority. We are only bringing the trailer to live in while we are working, not to camp along the way. We will be staying in motels on our way to Florida most likely, but the trailer we will stay in, until mid-June when we head back to Colorado. If we don't stay in the trailer we would stay in a tent during that time, which we have done for a few years. We were trying to move up to a small trailer and ended up buying from someone who took advantage of our lack of knowledge. Lesson learned.

We do know how to downshift and ride down the hill and I am happy to go whatever speed is necessary to keep it slow. Thank you for mentioning that though.

At this point we are planning to go around Raton Pass, and check the weather before we leave and during the trip. We haven't decided which day we will leave but our objective is to avoid snow and the mountain pass, even if that makes us late. We got an anti sway device as well for added stability. Do you think this should be enough as long as we travel in better weather conditions and go around the pass?

thank you so much to everyone for all the information. It's been a learning process for sure. I appreciate all the help.

RJR

You should be fine on that route as long as the roads aren't slick. The anti-sway device is a good idea, especially with a shorter wheelbase vehicle like the 4runner. Take it slow; with a full height trailer (which I assume yours is), you probably won't be able to do much over 60-65 mph with the 3.0 V6 anyway. There won't be a lot of places you can use 5th gear.

Have a great trip!

remy

Thank you! I appreciate the advice so much. The trailer is not particularly tall, my husband can't stand up straight in it and he is 6'1". STILL, our 4Runner is tall and we are at a disadvantage. We will game an alternate route and take our time. Thank you.