Total Front Suspension Refresh

LT4Runner · 12-15-2007, 11:58 AM

hello, first post here and I'm sure glad I found this site BBS. A friend recently gave me his 95 4Runner with 183K on the clock, known issues included needing a new windshield, new tail gate and front brakes. Lots of rust around the truck too, but it was only $800. After driving it from Maine down to Boston, I knew it absolutely needed brakes...metal on metal. Note that I know nothing about 4Runners at this point.

So the first thing I do (foolishly) is have a windshield installed and get a tail gate out of a local junk yard. I'm now $1300 into the truck, but since there's a wholesale auto part distributor on the floor below where I work, I get parts very cheap and think I'll have a decent truck for $1500 or so.

Getting it up on jackstands 2 weeks ago armed with my new Haynes manual, I find it fairly easy to pull apart. BUT, the more I dismantle and inspect, the more I find that every single component in the front suspension is absolute toast. the lower A-arms have more rust (empty space) than metal. The uppers are just bad enough that they really ought to be replaced now that everything is apart. the calipers are frozen. the rotors as expected are junk. the bearings are good on one side, bad on the other, anti-roll bar links are dangling having pulled through the rusted out A-arms long ago, shocks are bad and 2 boots are torn on the axles.

At this point my friend gives me back the $800, but I've $500 into it so I (foolishly) decide to soldier on.

So now I'm $1200 into the truck as I write this with new:
windshield
tailgate
shocks
axles
complete brakes
bearings
hub hardware (new studs from Toyota, etc.)
Upper and lower used A-arms out of California

Hubs have been bead blasted and are awaiting POR15 and when I get the upper arms from CA, every surface I can paint, I will.

Some bad news along the way. One bolt holding the ball joint on snapped off in the knuckle. One of the surface plates/washers on the lower A-arms was missing. I torched out the bushing and have one on order from Toyota.

Questions:
Upper A-arms. I've yet to find a good procedure for replacing these. Anyone have a link or advice on how to do it?

Is is OK to paint the holes for the cone washers with POR or should I mask them out?

are there any bare threaded surfaces that should NOT get anti-seize?

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**DeathCougar** · 12-15-2007, 12:04 PM

Crank the T-bars down before you try replacing the upper a-arms. Other wise, once you undo the 3 bolts holding them, they will twist where they sit and you wont be able to remove them. The T-bars can stay in place, but the pressure MUST be relieved.

LT4Runner · 12-16-2007, 09:41 AM

Thanks, but what does "cranking down the T-bars" mean? what do I do?

A few pics.

Ron Helmuth · 12-16-2007, 09:51 AM

congrats on your new to you 2nd gen.

I wanted to just mention that many times you can upgrade the parts you are replacing for about the same money or just a little more-and it sounds like you are going to be doing some serious wrenching.

Just for example when you said the calipers were froze up I thought back to when I owned a 2nd gen (also a 95) and always cursed the front brakes as I would eat through rotors routinely. There are a number of brake upgrades out there, I think using Tundra calipers is one of them and just wanted you to "think big" from the beginning and not limit yourself to just replacing factory parts with the same part numbers.

It sounds like rust is just killing the earlier Runners out east. But what a buddy you have there!

**DeathCougar** · 12-16-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Helmuth

congrats on your new to you 2nd gen.

I wanted to just mention that many times you can upgrade the parts you are replacing for about the same money or just a little more-and it sounds like you are going to be doing some serious wrenching.

Just for example when you said the calipers were froze up I thought back to when I owned a 2nd gen (also a 95) and always cursed the front brakes as I would eat through rotors routinely. There are a number of brake upgrades out there, I think using Tundra calipers is one of them and just wanted you to "think big" from the beginning and not limit yourself to just replacing factory parts with the same part numbers.

It sounds like rust is just killing the earlier Runners out east. But what a buddy you have there!

good idea.....for THIRD GENS.

He has a second gen, so tundra brakes are not even an option.

Cranking down the t-bars means to loosen the large long bolt on the end of the torsion bar (under the cabin) until all the pressure is off the torsion bars.

LT4Runner · 12-16-2007, 02:00 PM

thanks for the help guys, much appreciated!

Ron, I'd like to go all out on this truck, and may some day, but for now I'm getting everything a local garage would just to get it going, and being a little cash poor these days, my hope is to just get it on the road as cheaply as possible, weld up all the holes in the body in February (I hope CA yards will cut sheetmetal to order) and then reassess it's future. the good part is everything that should be blasted and POR15'd and anti-seized is so anytime I need to take it apart, should be easy.

yes, I do have good friends!

the only thing that would hold me up from going nuts on the truck is that there seems to be a slight lifter noise in the motor, not metallic, but more like a flutter. Will have to thoroughly check that out. Before tearing apart the front, I changed the oil with 5/30 and put in a pint of Marvel. We'll see how it runs next weekend if it's off the stands.

Thanks DC on the cranking TB concept. Glad I bought a gallon of PB Blaster!

BLKNBLU · 12-16-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LT4Runner

Thanks DC on the cranking TB concept. Glad I bought a gallon of PB Blaster!

There is a very good chance those t bar adjusting bolts are going to break. Not much you can do about it. Just be aware of the possibility and prepared to get new ones. Good luck.

CoedNaked · 12-16-2007, 03:50 PM

Front suspension - NORMAL wear items are ball joints & idler arm on these trucks. Look at replacing those "while you're down there." Also have a look at your tie rod ends, & other parts too.

Cyberman · 12-16-2007, 04:02 PM

Just a post to say I feel your pain. I'll be replacing the same parts when it warms up, along with restoring the frame...

ewong · 12-16-2007, 04:03 PM

Before you pour more money into it...

FRAME Rot?
Major body rot?

Those two make the project a non daily driver resto project...

notanymore · 12-16-2007, 05:07 PM

so if the front suspension is that bad, how bad is the frame?

Greg_Canada · 12-16-2007, 05:19 PM

i agree with the last few posters 100%....
also www.toyotafiberglass.com sells sheet metal repair kits for around the rear wheel wells. they also sell fiberglass front fenders, i run their stuff and it's top notch.

Cyberman · 12-16-2007, 05:21 PM

Mine doesn't have frame rot, but the underside of the cab has rot the length of the rockers. Seems repairable, and in my case it isn't a DD. 2nd gen yotas are hard to come by where I'm at, and I'm gonna get this truck back on the road. He paid $800, I paid nothing.

Oh, and thanks for the link. I think those rockers might work for me.

LT4Runner · 12-16-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewong

Before you pour more money into it...

FRAME Rot?
Major body rot?

Those two make the project a non daily driver resto project...

You know, if I hadn't already done the windshield and the gate, I would have just bought my friend a beer and said thanks but no thanks. there is honestly nothing really good about this truck save for new tires. The interior is as beat as the outside, and so on.

the frame is surprisingly very good. the factory black paint/coating on the frame is intact for the most part with little minor rust. I'll replace the front fenders and bumpers, don't need the running boards and will have to weld in new rear quarters (or some portion of the sheetmetal) as well as rear bottom sheetmetal at the rear doors. If a West Coast or southern yard will cut the sheetmetal for me, I should be able to get it all in over a weekend.

if the engine checks out, I could see painting it in June or so. Given straight panels, I should be able to get away with just hitting it with 400/220, a cheap high build primer, quick sand and then a single stage coat, color TBD.

Coed, the ball joints that came with the lower arms seem to be good (very stiff) and hoping the uppers coming will as well. it has some new components in the front, I believe a new pitman arm. Will have to check on the idler arm, thanks.

At the end of the day, I could easily put $4K into it including a new motor, $2K without. But I'll have a really great truck that is virtually brand new that will last forever. I'm not a big fan of new cars and even wish this had a big old straight six with some torque on hand.

Will post some pics of the build. Nasty weather here though and I'm working outside, so hoping it will clear up as soon as I've got all my parts in.

Thanks for all the support! it's nice to know I'm not alone in doing all this.

LT4Runner · 12-16-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg_Canada

i agree with the last few posters 100%....
also www.toyotafiberglass.com sells sheet metal repair kits for around the rear wheel wells. they also sell fiberglass front fenders, i run their stuff and it's top notch.

Excellent link, thank you Greg!

Asha'man · 12-16-2007, 11:55 PM

Keep in mind that the frames on these trucks often rust from the inside out, where you can't see it. Might be a good idea to tap on the frame with a wrench or hammer and listen for any non-solid spots. That could be a problem.

Ron Helmuth · 12-17-2007, 07:15 AM

wow you have got a lot of work to do it sounds like -what a project truck

thanks deathcougar I did not realize the Tundra caliper upgrade for front brakes were only for 3rd gens.-thought I had read of some 2nd gens using them also.

LT4Runner · 12-17-2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha'man

Keep in mind that the frames on these trucks often rust from the inside out, where you can't see it. Might be a good idea to tap on the frame with a wrench or hammer and listen for any non-solid spots. That could be a problem.

Thanks, I'll knock a small sledge down the length. Really wish I had a lift now.

Ron, as long as I can get it drivable, I'm OK for the long haul.

12-16-2007, 09:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
LT4Runner Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 12	Thanks, but what does "cranking down the T-bars" mean? what do I do? A few pics. Attached Thumbnails __________________ 1995 4Runner 1969 911E

12-16-2007, 09:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ron Helmuth Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver metro area-CO Posts: 1,339	congrats on your new to you 2nd gen. I wanted to just mention that many times you can upgrade the parts you are replacing for about the same money or just a little more-and it sounds like you are going to be doing some serious wrenching. Just for example when you said the calipers were froze up I thought back to when I owned a 2nd gen (also a 95) and always cursed the front brakes as I would eat through rotors routinely. There are a number of brake upgrades out there, I think using Tundra calipers is one of them and just wanted you to "think big" from the beginning and not limit yourself to just replacing factory parts with the same part numbers. It sounds like rust is just killing the earlier Runners out east. But what a buddy you have there! __________________ 99 4Runner SR5 4wd 3.4/5 spd- Fact. Rr. Locker/Diff Breather Ext. Old Man Emu lift springs- 881 fronts/890 rears O/M/E shocks- N91s fr./N86 rr. All Pro Off Road welded sliders-prevent body damage! ARB"Taco"bumper/Gamiviti clear lenses/Hella 500s Redline Tuning hood struts/Bushwacker Extend a Fenders all my photos are over on Facebook now-I gave up on photo hosting sorry.... http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=5795132731

12-16-2007, 02:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
LT4Runner Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 12	thanks for the help guys, much appreciated! Ron, I'd like to go all out on this truck, and may some day, but for now I'm getting everything a local garage would just to get it going, and being a little cash poor these days, my hope is to just get it on the road as cheaply as possible, weld up all the holes in the body in February (I hope CA yards will cut sheetmetal to order) and then reassess it's future. the good part is everything that should be blasted and POR15'd and anti-seized is so anytime I need to take it apart, should be easy. yes, I do have good friends! the only thing that would hold me up from going nuts on the truck is that there seems to be a slight lifter noise in the motor, not metallic, but more like a flutter. Will have to thoroughly check that out. Before tearing apart the front, I changed the oil with 5/30 and put in a pint of Marvel. We'll see how it runs next weekend if it's off the stands. Thanks DC on the cranking TB concept. Glad I bought a gallon of PB Blaster! __________________ 1995 4Runner 1969 911E

12-16-2007, 03:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
CoedNaked Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 1,473	Front suspension - NORMAL wear items are ball joints & idler arm on these trucks. Look at replacing those "while you're down there." Also have a look at your tie rod ends, & other parts too. __________________ 1993 Xtra Cab Pickup \| 4x4 \| 3.0 - V6 \| R150F \| Silver-Grey \| Amsoil 10w30 synthetic oil \| Amsoil Synthetic Drivetrain fluids\| Borla Cat-back Exhaust \| OME HD Leaf Springs \| Bilstein HD Shocks \| Downey Idler Arm Brace \| Grey Husky Liners \| SR5 Bucket Seat Swap \| Color matched Canopy \| Yakima racks \| Line-X OTR \| Michelin LTX A/T 31 x 10.5 x 15 \| 323,600 KM's (202,250 miles) \| Made in Japan - Vin starts with "J"\| Fish on

12-16-2007, 05:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
notanymore Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Wenatchee WA Posts: 969	so if the front suspension is that bad, how bad is the frame? __________________ my truck: 1987 pickup xtra cab sr5 22re 5 speed 4wd, 31x10.5's eb 261c cam, lce header, 2.25 exhaust 120amp Mr. Alternator rear lockrite, optima yellow top xrc8 winch & AOR bumper coming soon my bikes: 1980 Honda CX500-1997 honda cbr F3

12-16-2007, 04:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
Cyberman Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Dillsburg, PA Posts: 545	Just a post to say I feel your pain. I'll be replacing the same parts when it warms up, along with restoring the frame...

12-16-2007, 04:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
ewong Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Philly PA Posts: 1,290	Before you pour more money into it... FRAME Rot? Major body rot? Those two make the project a non daily driver resto project...

12-16-2007, 05:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
Greg_Canada Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 812	i agree with the last few posters 100%.... also www.toyotafiberglass.com sells sheet metal repair kits for around the rear wheel wells. they also sell fiberglass front fenders, i run their stuff and it's top notch. __________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/1147271/1 My 1989 Toyota 4runner

12-16-2007, 05:21 PM	#13 (permalink)
Cyberman Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Dillsburg, PA Posts: 545	Mine doesn't have frame rot, but the underside of the cab has rot the length of the rockers. Seems repairable, and in my case it isn't a DD. 2nd gen yotas are hard to come by where I'm at, and I'm gonna get this truck back on the road. He paid $800, I paid nothing. Oh, and thanks for the link. I think those rockers might work for me. Last edited by Cyberman; 12-16-2007 at 05:25 PM.

12-16-2007, 11:55 PM	#16 (permalink)
Asha'man Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Centennial, CO Posts: 871	Keep in mind that the frames on these trucks often rust from the inside out, where you can't see it. Might be a good idea to tap on the frame with a wrench or hammer and listen for any non-solid spots. That could be a problem. __________________ --Brian Truck - 1986 4Runner SR5 - 22RE, 5spd, 265K, 3" OME/BJ spacer lift, 31x10.50 TrXus MT's, satin black AR steelies, homemade bikini top Car - 1995 Lexus SC400, red/black, 220K, coilovers, exhaust Pickup - 1985 Toyota Xtra cab pickup - 2wd, 22R, 5spd, 270K miles, 4Runner buckets, currently two colors

12-17-2007, 07:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
Ron Helmuth Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver metro area-CO Posts: 1,339	wow you have got a lot of work to do it sounds like -what a project truck thanks deathcougar I did not realize the Tundra caliper upgrade for front brakes were only for 3rd gens.-thought I had read of some 2nd gens using them also. __________________ 99 4Runner SR5 4wd 3.4/5 spd- Fact. Rr. Locker/Diff Breather Ext. Old Man Emu lift springs- 881 fronts/890 rears O/M/E shocks- N91s fr./N86 rr. All Pro Off Road welded sliders-prevent body damage! ARB"Taco"bumper/Gamiviti clear lenses/Hella 500s Redline Tuning hood struts/Bushwacker Extend a Fenders all my photos are over on Facebook now-I gave up on photo hosting sorry.... http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=5795132731

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