toddler in a 4pt. harness?
02-10-2011, 12:08 AM
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toddler in a 4pt. harness?
so i have a 94 pickup std. cab and its a pain to go wheeling with me my son and my wife. we have to put my three year old to the door so he will have the shoulder belt with his booster. so my wife hardly goes with us due to riding in the middle. hate that she misses out because they both enjoy it so much. my question is has anyone ever put a four point harness in a standard cab or know of how safe it would be to use with a booster seat and a three year old? i did some searching but all i found was ext. cab threads and no real answers.
02-10-2011, 04:00 AM
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I thought someone made seats for toddlers, like infant seats but bigger. You probably would have to strap it to the cab behind and between(top and bottom) in a reg cab I would think because there is only a lap belt in the middle.
But yeah, I'm with you, make sure it's right before putting your child in it.
But yeah, I'm with you, make sure it's right before putting your child in it.
02-10-2011, 05:08 AM
#4
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My 4Runner has lap belt in the middle so I use that with a Sunshine Kids Radian 65 seat. There's a thread on it around here somewhere. He's nearly 8 now and it still fits, 5point harness and it's the narrowest seat out there.
Are the air bags in your truck are the kind you can turn off?
Are the air bags in your truck are the kind you can turn off?
Last edited by habanero; 02-10-2011 at 05:09 AM.
02-10-2011, 05:11 AM
#5
X2: Time for a 4runner or X-cab.
south carolina (based on location under your avatar)
http://www.buckleupsc.com/cps/laws.htm
a lot of it will depend on your kids weight.
I would contact your local DMV, Dept of Public safety or State trooper...hate to see you get in an accident with your kid strapped in with a 4 pt harness and not have it be approved..
the excuse "well the guys on the internet said' probably won't fly far...
south carolina (based on location under your avatar)
http://www.buckleupsc.com/cps/laws.htm
a lot of it will depend on your kids weight.
I would contact your local DMV, Dept of Public safety or State trooper...hate to see you get in an accident with your kid strapped in with a 4 pt harness and not have it be approved..
the excuse "well the guys on the internet said' probably won't fly far...
02-10-2011, 05:42 AM
#6
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4-point and 5-pt harnesses at least here in PA are illegal to use for adults as well as children. I am sure alot of other states are like that as well.
Not sure about the shoulder belt with the booster though never really thought about that. I keep my 5 year old in the middle with just a booster and a lap belt. Pretty sure there is no requirement needed shoulder belt. But, a 3 year old depending on weight height etc etc might need a full car seat and not just a booster. But if so, then you would not need the shoulder belt since they have integrated belts in the car seat.
Not sure about the shoulder belt with the booster though never really thought about that. I keep my 5 year old in the middle with just a booster and a lap belt. Pretty sure there is no requirement needed shoulder belt. But, a 3 year old depending on weight height etc etc might need a full car seat and not just a booster. But if so, then you would not need the shoulder belt since they have integrated belts in the car seat.
Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 02-10-2011 at 05:44 AM.
02-10-2011, 06:10 AM
#7
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When I was 3 my dad just made sure the lap belt was tight if my brother or I (or both if mom was with us) were sitting in the middle, no booster seats or anything like that. Of course this was the late 80s, I think laws are different now...
We stopped doing the double-up in the middle seat about a year later after I grabbed the stick and tried to power-shift the truck from 5th into R, after that I was only allowed to ride shotgun and mom stopped coming on fishing trips.
We stopped doing the double-up in the middle seat about a year later after I grabbed the stick and tried to power-shift the truck from 5th into R, after that I was only allowed to ride shotgun and mom stopped coming on fishing trips.
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02-10-2011, 10:21 AM
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When I was 3 my dad just made sure the lap belt was tight if my brother or I (or both if mom was with us) were sitting in the middle, no booster seats or anything like that. Of course this was the late 80s, I think laws are different now...
We stopped doing the double-up in the middle seat about a year later after I grabbed the stick and tried to power-shift the truck from 5th into R, after that I was only allowed to ride shotgun and mom stopped coming on fishing trips.
We stopped doing the double-up in the middle seat about a year later after I grabbed the stick and tried to power-shift the truck from 5th into R, after that I was only allowed to ride shotgun and mom stopped coming on fishing trips.
Holy Crap that was funny !
02-10-2011, 10:29 AM
#10
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02-10-2011, 11:16 AM
#11
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When I was very little I rode in the car standing on the edge of the back seat, hanging over the front seat and I'm still alive. That doesn't mean it's safe or ok to do that now!
Don't use just a lap belt (with or without a booster) for your kid!!!
http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/...s/options.html
For South Carolina: (guessing that's what sc means)
Child restraint laws
Must be in child restraint younger than 1 year or less than 20 pounds in a rear-facing infant seat; 1 through 5 years and 20-39 pounds in a forward-facing child safety seat; 1 through 5 years and 40-80 pounds in a booster seat secured by lap-shoulder belt (lap belt alone is impermissible)
Adult safety belt permissible 1 through 5 years and 80+ pounds or any child 5 years and younger if the child's knees bend over the seat edge when sitting up straight with his/her back firmly against the seat back
Maximum fine 1st offense $150
Seating preference children 5 years and younger must be in rear seat if available
Children not covered all children covered
Don't use just a lap belt (with or without a booster) for your kid!!!
http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/...s/options.html
For South Carolina: (guessing that's what sc means)
Child restraint laws
Must be in child restraint younger than 1 year or less than 20 pounds in a rear-facing infant seat; 1 through 5 years and 20-39 pounds in a forward-facing child safety seat; 1 through 5 years and 40-80 pounds in a booster seat secured by lap-shoulder belt (lap belt alone is impermissible)
Adult safety belt permissible 1 through 5 years and 80+ pounds or any child 5 years and younger if the child's knees bend over the seat edge when sitting up straight with his/her back firmly against the seat back
Maximum fine 1st offense $150
Seating preference children 5 years and younger must be in rear seat if available
Children not covered all children covered
Last edited by habanero; 02-10-2011 at 12:12 PM.
02-10-2011, 11:36 AM
#12
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Thanks hab. now I am gonna have to look at PA's safety seats again, however:
this worries me a little:
"1 through 5 years and 40-80 pounds in a booster seat secured by lap-shoulder belt (lap belt alone is impermissible)"
This tells me that transporting a booster age child in an older car with only lap belts is not legal.
this worries me a little:
"1 through 5 years and 40-80 pounds in a booster seat secured by lap-shoulder belt (lap belt alone is impermissible)"
This tells me that transporting a booster age child in an older car with only lap belts is not legal.
02-10-2011, 11:52 AM
#13
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That's how I read it too, but there are child seats that hold kids up to 80# that you can use with a lap belt since the restraint is on the seat itself. Britax makes one, as does Sunshine Kids. My son (8 in may) is just over 4' tall and 49#. He's in a Radian 65 and will outgrow seat before he outgrows the size limit. There is also a Radian 80 for beefier kids.
Try this for laws by state...
http://www.iihs.org/laws/default.aspx
Select state.
Try this for laws by state...
http://www.iihs.org/laws/default.aspx
Select state.
02-10-2011, 11:54 AM
#14
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now this is odd: Notice in the PA codes, no mention of the lap versus shoulder except for riding in a vehicle equipped only with lap belts that a booster seat is not required. But looking at the drivers manual it states lap and shoulder belt.
From the above mentioned site:
Child restraint laws
Must be in child restraint 7 years and younger In Pennsylvania, the law is secondary for children ages 4 through 7 years who must be in booster seats.
Adult safety belt permissible not permissible
Maximum fine 1st offense $100
Seating preference law states no preference for rear seat
Children not covered all children covered
This is not from the above mentioned site which is really vague, but directly from the PA state codes and drivers manual.
from the PA codes:
§ 102.3. Physical criteria for use of child passenger restraint system.
(a) General criteria. Children under 4 years of age shall be securely fastened in a safety seat belt system and a child passenger restraint system appropriate for their height and weight in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer. Children 4 years of age but younger than 8 years of age shall be securely fastened in a safety seat belt system and an appropriately fitting child booster seat in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer.
(b) Exemption based on child's weight or height, or on vehicle characteristics. Exemption from the general criteria in subsection (a) shall be as follows:
(1) Children 4 years of age but younger than 8 years of age who weigh less than 40 pounds may, in lieu of use of a booster seat, be securely fastened in a child safety seat or other child passenger restraint system appropriate for their height and weight in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer.
(2) Children 4 years of age but younger than 8 years of age riding in a passenger position in the vehicle which was not originally equipped with a shoulder safety seat belt shall be fastened in the safety seat belt system without the use of a child booster seat and may be fastened in a child passenger restraint system appropriate for their height and weight in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer.
(3) Children 4 years of age but younger than 8 years of age who weigh more than 80 pounds or who are of a height of 4 feet 9 inches or taller may be fastened in the safety seat belt system without the use of a child booster seat.
From the PA drivers manual:
Children under the age of four (4) must be buckled into a federally-approved child passenger restraint system (child safety seat), which must be secured to the vehicle by the seat belt system (or using the vehicle’s LATCH system, available in newer vehicles), no matter where they ride in the vehicle (front or back seat).
• Children ages four (4) and older, but under the age of eight (8) must be buckled into a federally-approved child booster seat, which must be secured to the vehicle by the seat belt system, no matter where they ride in a vehicle (front or back seat). Booster seats must be used in conjunction with lap and shoulder belts.
• Children ages eight (8) and older, but under age 18 must be buckled in a seat belt, no matter where they ride in the vehicle (front or back seat).
• Drivers are responsible for securing children into an approved child passenger restraint system and ensuring children under age 18 are buckled up.
Children who weigh less than 20 pounds and are under one (1) year of age should ride in rear-facing child safety seats. In fact, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that children ride rear-facing for as long as possible in rear-facing seats designed to accommodate weights up to 35 pounds. Never install a rear-facing child safety seat in the front seat if an air bag is present. In a crash, the air bag will hit the back of the child seat with tremendous force, which will be transmitted to the infant’s head causing severe injury or death.
From the above mentioned site:
Child restraint laws
Must be in child restraint 7 years and younger In Pennsylvania, the law is secondary for children ages 4 through 7 years who must be in booster seats.
Adult safety belt permissible not permissible
Maximum fine 1st offense $100
Seating preference law states no preference for rear seat
Children not covered all children covered
This is not from the above mentioned site which is really vague, but directly from the PA state codes and drivers manual.
from the PA codes:
§ 102.3. Physical criteria for use of child passenger restraint system.
(a) General criteria. Children under 4 years of age shall be securely fastened in a safety seat belt system and a child passenger restraint system appropriate for their height and weight in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer. Children 4 years of age but younger than 8 years of age shall be securely fastened in a safety seat belt system and an appropriately fitting child booster seat in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer.
(b) Exemption based on child's weight or height, or on vehicle characteristics. Exemption from the general criteria in subsection (a) shall be as follows:
(1) Children 4 years of age but younger than 8 years of age who weigh less than 40 pounds may, in lieu of use of a booster seat, be securely fastened in a child safety seat or other child passenger restraint system appropriate for their height and weight in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer.
(2) Children 4 years of age but younger than 8 years of age riding in a passenger position in the vehicle which was not originally equipped with a shoulder safety seat belt shall be fastened in the safety seat belt system without the use of a child booster seat and may be fastened in a child passenger restraint system appropriate for their height and weight in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer.
(3) Children 4 years of age but younger than 8 years of age who weigh more than 80 pounds or who are of a height of 4 feet 9 inches or taller may be fastened in the safety seat belt system without the use of a child booster seat.
From the PA drivers manual:
Children under the age of four (4) must be buckled into a federally-approved child passenger restraint system (child safety seat), which must be secured to the vehicle by the seat belt system (or using the vehicle’s LATCH system, available in newer vehicles), no matter where they ride in the vehicle (front or back seat).
• Children ages four (4) and older, but under the age of eight (8) must be buckled into a federally-approved child booster seat, which must be secured to the vehicle by the seat belt system, no matter where they ride in a vehicle (front or back seat). Booster seats must be used in conjunction with lap and shoulder belts.
• Children ages eight (8) and older, but under age 18 must be buckled in a seat belt, no matter where they ride in the vehicle (front or back seat).
• Drivers are responsible for securing children into an approved child passenger restraint system and ensuring children under age 18 are buckled up.
Children who weigh less than 20 pounds and are under one (1) year of age should ride in rear-facing child safety seats. In fact, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that children ride rear-facing for as long as possible in rear-facing seats designed to accommodate weights up to 35 pounds. Never install a rear-facing child safety seat in the front seat if an air bag is present. In a crash, the air bag will hit the back of the child seat with tremendous force, which will be transmitted to the infant’s head causing severe injury or death.
Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 02-10-2011 at 11:59 AM.
02-10-2011, 12:07 PM
#15
Contributing Member
It is odd. It does state 'in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer.' which puts you back at lap/shoulder rather than lap alone, as far as I know there are no booster seats that allow for lap belt only by the manufacturer. As far as I know.
My guess for the lap belt only equipped vehicle is that having the lap belt up higher by sitting the child in the seat itself rather than a booster would help keep the child more in the seat and less head flinging jackknifing - I guess the lesser of two evils?
My guess for the lap belt only equipped vehicle is that having the lap belt up higher by sitting the child in the seat itself rather than a booster would help keep the child more in the seat and less head flinging jackknifing - I guess the lesser of two evils?
02-10-2011, 12:10 PM
#16
Registered User
it looks like in PA with lap belt only vehicles you can get away with just the lap belt on and not have to use a booster. But it does say you can if you want to. Now if I am reading into it too much, what "manufacture" are they talking about, the booster manufacture or the vehicle manufacture?
Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 02-10-2011 at 12:11 PM.
02-10-2011, 12:26 PM
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Wow I got behind. Yea I know they make the seats for bigger sizes but the problem is room tho and he would never go in a lap belt. Right now he uses his normal car seat and my wife doesn't go. And wan that would be nice but im broke and just spent a grand locking it hate to get rid of my first truck too.
02-10-2011, 12:28 PM
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I swear this site is full of pa people. Im going to call highway patrol now. May be later tonight before I get back here. Working seven days a week as of yesterday so I sleep all day
02-11-2011, 03:17 AM
#19
Off-road, not sure any restraints are required but getting from the house to off-road may be an issue.
Overall though, even here in communist California, and even if it's a truck equipped with or without airbags, a child's car seat is okay in the front if the seat is appropriate for the child's weight and size and the factory seat belt is properly connected through the child's seat.
Overall though, even here in communist California, and even if it's a truck equipped with or without airbags, a child's car seat is okay in the front if the seat is appropriate for the child's weight and size and the factory seat belt is properly connected through the child's seat.
Last edited by razed; 02-11-2011 at 03:18 AM.
02-11-2011, 04:43 AM
#20
Registered User
funny how ther are all these laws the government thinkd they know best for all of us, when in reality if we use common sense we can keep ourselves safe. i never wore a belt as a kid, matter of fact i used to play in the back seat and rode in the bed of my dads truck from denver to miles city montana when i was ten. im still alive. how about two bucket seats with a custom middle with belts for the little man
