Tech Tip: FREE Starter fix
12-05-2008, 01:20 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Tech Tip: FREE Starter fix
This was pirated from Pirate, ever notice your truck won't crank if the battery is slightly drained? http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...hlight=starter
Alright, I've read through all the threads on how to fix the *click* *click* *click* that you get when trying to start the truck.
First off a little history on what I've already done. About 4 months ago when I went to start my truck sometime all I would hear is click click click, other times it would start fine.
So, I pulled the starter and inspected the Contacts -- They looked fine still, so I cleaned them up and put it all back together. This seemed to help for a little while.
It started happening bad again, so I thought I may as well try replacing the starter -- big waste of money, this helped nothing.
I noticed that I was getting the clicking most often when the battery wasn't at full charge (after I had been running my stereo with the truck off, etc)
I had read about people adding relays, push button starter switches and all sort of other crap to fix this problem, which they said was most often caused by the ignition switch wearing out. So I decided to start trouble shooting the Ignition system.
I noticed that there are two relays that click when you turn the key to start. One is in the passenger kick panel by the ECU, and the other is bolted to the passenger fender. Both of these relays click when I turned the key but the truck won't start, so I figured that these relays were not what is causing the problem.
So then I pulled out the FSM and inspected the wiring diagram for the starter system thoroughly. I found that the Starter Relay (pass. fender) was wired really strange. As I'm sure most people know, usually a relay has a low amp switched power source (terminal #3) and ground (#1) which controls a high powered input from battery (#4) and high powered output to the device (#2). Now for some reason Toyota has the power from the ignition switch going to both input terminals 3 & 4, so this means the wire going to the starter is going be as weak as the worn out ignition. Why the hell they would do this is beyond me. So I cut the wire going into #4 and wrapped up the end going back to the ignition so it wouldn't short out, and then ran a wire directly from the battery to terminal #4 on the relay. (See diagram below.) Note that you can't see that the wire for #4 actually conects to the wire for #3 coming from the ignition, but it does somewhere in the system.
I tested this fix by running my steroe for a couple hours to kill the battery and then tried to start it, and it works! The starter turned over slowly (due to the dead battery) and started the engine right up. This is something that I have never been able to do before -- if my battery wasn't at 100% it wouldn't start, now it will start as long as there is enough power to turn over the engine.
Click HERE for the full diagram showing the entire starting system.
The connector for the relay is labled like this:
Female:
___
---------
| 1 | 2 |
---------
| 3 | 4 |
---------
Male:
___
---------
| 2 | 1 |
---------
| 4 | 3 |
---------
(The ___ is the top side of the connector)
So to Summarize, if your here *click* *click* *click* when you try to start and it is not the starter contacts:
Cut the wire going into terminal #4
Wire terminal #4 directly to the battery.
Done!
Much easier and cheaper than adding a new relay and starter switches like a lot of people seem to do. All it cost me was a 2 foot piece of wire which i already had laying around, and about 2 hours worth of time to trouble shoot and go over the wiring diagram. Now that I've done all the trouble shooting I don't think it should take anyone more than 20 mins to do.
I hope this helps some people out with there starting problems. If anyone thinks this should be in the FAQ feel free to add it.
NOTE: This was all done on my '89 4Runner with the 3.0L V6. I imagine that some vehicles will be different, so check your wiring diagram before you cut any wires and blame me when you something up :flipoff2:
First off a little history on what I've already done. About 4 months ago when I went to start my truck sometime all I would hear is click click click, other times it would start fine.
So, I pulled the starter and inspected the Contacts -- They looked fine still, so I cleaned them up and put it all back together. This seemed to help for a little while.
It started happening bad again, so I thought I may as well try replacing the starter -- big waste of money, this helped nothing.
I noticed that I was getting the clicking most often when the battery wasn't at full charge (after I had been running my stereo with the truck off, etc)
I had read about people adding relays, push button starter switches and all sort of other crap to fix this problem, which they said was most often caused by the ignition switch wearing out. So I decided to start trouble shooting the Ignition system.
I noticed that there are two relays that click when you turn the key to start. One is in the passenger kick panel by the ECU, and the other is bolted to the passenger fender. Both of these relays click when I turned the key but the truck won't start, so I figured that these relays were not what is causing the problem.
So then I pulled out the FSM and inspected the wiring diagram for the starter system thoroughly. I found that the Starter Relay (pass. fender) was wired really strange. As I'm sure most people know, usually a relay has a low amp switched power source (terminal #3) and ground (#1) which controls a high powered input from battery (#4) and high powered output to the device (#2). Now for some reason Toyota has the power from the ignition switch going to both input terminals 3 & 4, so this means the wire going to the starter is going be as weak as the worn out ignition. Why the hell they would do this is beyond me. So I cut the wire going into #4 and wrapped up the end going back to the ignition so it wouldn't short out, and then ran a wire directly from the battery to terminal #4 on the relay. (See diagram below.) Note that you can't see that the wire for #4 actually conects to the wire for #3 coming from the ignition, but it does somewhere in the system.
I tested this fix by running my steroe for a couple hours to kill the battery and then tried to start it, and it works! The starter turned over slowly (due to the dead battery) and started the engine right up. This is something that I have never been able to do before -- if my battery wasn't at 100% it wouldn't start, now it will start as long as there is enough power to turn over the engine.
Click HERE for the full diagram showing the entire starting system.
The connector for the relay is labled like this:
Female:
___
---------
| 1 | 2 |
---------
| 3 | 4 |
---------
Male:
___
---------
| 2 | 1 |
---------
| 4 | 3 |
---------
(The ___ is the top side of the connector)
So to Summarize, if your here *click* *click* *click* when you try to start and it is not the starter contacts:
Cut the wire going into terminal #4
Wire terminal #4 directly to the battery.
Done!
Much easier and cheaper than adding a new relay and starter switches like a lot of people seem to do. All it cost me was a 2 foot piece of wire which i already had laying around, and about 2 hours worth of time to trouble shoot and go over the wiring diagram. Now that I've done all the trouble shooting I don't think it should take anyone more than 20 mins to do.
I hope this helps some people out with there starting problems. If anyone thinks this should be in the FAQ feel free to add it.
NOTE: This was all done on my '89 4Runner with the 3.0L V6. I imagine that some vehicles will be different, so check your wiring diagram before you cut any wires and blame me when you something up :flipoff2:
Last edited by Matt16; 12-08-2008 at 12:54 PM.
12-05-2008, 01:52 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: chippawa niagara falls ontario
Posts: 3,278
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
hrmm wonder if a 22re has this issue...my trail rig was acting funny so i usually just leave it running from off the dolly to back on.. but i might try this!
12-05-2008, 03:21 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
4Crawler has this on his site.
It only applies to manual trans vehicles. Auto transmissions do not have the relay.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions
It only applies to manual trans vehicles. Auto transmissions do not have the relay.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions
12-05-2008, 03:34 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Use one appropriate to the wire size. 12 gauge wire should have no more than a 20 amp fuse given the length of the run. A 15, 10 or maybe even 5 amp fuse may be used if it doesn't blow when the starter kicks in. 14 gauge or even 16 gauge wire may be used with an appropriate fuse.
Personally, I'd go 12 gauge with a 15 amp self-resetting breaker.
Last edited by abecedarian; 12-05-2008 at 03:36 PM.
12-05-2008, 03:46 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
absolutely, and as close to the battery as possible.
Use one appropriate to the wire size. 12 gauge wire should have no more than a 20 amp fuse given the length of the run. A 15, 10 or maybe even 5 amp fuse may be used if it doesn't blow when the starter kicks in. 14 gauge or even 16 gauge wire may be used with an appropriate fuse.
Personally, I'd go 12 gauge with a 15 amp self-resetting breaker.
Use one appropriate to the wire size. 12 gauge wire should have no more than a 20 amp fuse given the length of the run. A 15, 10 or maybe even 5 amp fuse may be used if it doesn't blow when the starter kicks in. 14 gauge or even 16 gauge wire may be used with an appropriate fuse.
Personally, I'd go 12 gauge with a 15 amp self-resetting breaker.
Trending Topics
12-05-2008, 03:49 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
you only need enough amperage to actuate the solenoid. the starter motor is getting its amperage through its own wire to the battery. 
Last edited by abecedarian; 12-05-2008 at 03:50 PM.
12-05-2008, 03:51 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
12-06-2008, 12:42 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Whoever does this first, would you take pictures. I don't feel like looking up in the FSM to find out what wire to cut. Just in the middle of exams and frankly, I don't want to see another test book for a LONG while.
12-07-2008, 02:53 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
The 1990 4Runner FSM says "The [starter] relay is located in the No. 1 junction box on the drivers side." That really isn't all that helpful. I went out and had a look in the engine bay (the write up says he used 2 feet of wire suggesting the relay is near the battery). There is the fuse box (don't think so, but its in the right place), and then a near the airbox (driver's side fender) 2"x2" black box that is marked with + sign so it looks like this [+] with two bigger wires coming out of it.
Any ideas where this relay is on a 1990 4Runner 5spd 22RE? I'm confused.
4Crawler gives this advice: "And where is the stater relay? Usually n the passenger side fender. It is a metal capped relay with the words "Starter Relay" on it. Note that starter relays only started being used about the 1986 model year on the Toyota pickups and 4Runners. One way to find the relay if it is not easily seen, is to follow the small wire from the starter solenoid back to the relay, if there is one."
From: http://www.4Crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions
The saga continues...
Any ideas where this relay is on a 1990 4Runner 5spd 22RE? I'm confused.
4Crawler gives this advice: "And where is the stater relay? Usually n the passenger side fender. It is a metal capped relay with the words "Starter Relay" on it. Note that starter relays only started being used about the 1986 model year on the Toyota pickups and 4Runners. One way to find the relay if it is not easily seen, is to follow the small wire from the starter solenoid back to the relay, if there is one."
From: http://www.4Crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions
The saga continues...
Last edited by Matt16; 12-07-2008 at 03:11 PM.
12-07-2008, 04:10 PM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
I can barely see my starter As I have all the air lines from my York compressor going along the gap between the fender and intake. So tracing the wires fro the starter is going to be impossible without taking stuff apart.
Anyone with a 1990 know where it might be? I swear I'm going to find Jimmy Hoffa in the engine bay before I find the bloody starter relay.
Anyone with a 1990 know where it might be? I swear I'm going to find Jimmy Hoffa in the engine bay before I find the bloody starter relay.
Last edited by Matt16; 12-07-2008 at 04:32 PM.
12-08-2008, 11:12 AM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
go to start... ....nothing
Went to start the '94 truck last night, thought maybe I didn't hold the key down, because nothing happened, tried it again and it started just fine. Got out of work this morning (3rd shifter and of course it's colder than heck here in MN), put the key in, nothing, only dash board lights. Tried it two times and she started just fine. Worried, too cold to have starting issues with the truck.
Found this post, awesome information, was excited about the quick and easy fix on the wiring going to the starter relay, HOWEVER noticed in the electrical schematic it says M/T and I have an automatic, bummer...
So, for those of us with A/T, our selections are either the Neutral Switch or the starter contacts, is this correct? I'm just worried about removing the starter, 15 years of crap, crud, and corrosion on the bolts and nuts... However it looks like this could be the problem.
Another question, how long do I have, I mean is this something that will progressively get worse, meaning will I be stuck somewhere freezing to death or will the cycling of the key work until spring? Or if it's the neutral switch and I attempt to start the truck in park, can I put the truck in neutral, and would that help???
Thanks people, terrific insight, awesome website.
Found this post, awesome information, was excited about the quick and easy fix on the wiring going to the starter relay, HOWEVER noticed in the electrical schematic it says M/T and I have an automatic, bummer...
So, for those of us with A/T, our selections are either the Neutral Switch or the starter contacts, is this correct? I'm just worried about removing the starter, 15 years of crap, crud, and corrosion on the bolts and nuts... However it looks like this could be the problem.
Another question, how long do I have, I mean is this something that will progressively get worse, meaning will I be stuck somewhere freezing to death or will the cycling of the key work until spring? Or if it's the neutral switch and I attempt to start the truck in park, can I put the truck in neutral, and would that help???
Thanks people, terrific insight, awesome website.
12-08-2008, 11:32 AM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
Went to start the '94 truck last night, thought maybe I didn't hold the key down, because nothing happened, tried it again and it started just fine. Got out of work this morning (3rd shifter and of course it's colder than heck here in MN), put the key in, nothing, only dash board lights. Tried it two times and she started just fine. Worried, too cold to have starting issues with the truck.
Found this post, awesome information, was excited about the quick and easy fix on the wiring going to the starter relay, HOWEVER noticed in the electrical schematic it says M/T and I have an automatic, bummer...
So, for those of us with A/T, our selections are either the Neutral Switch or the starter contacts, is this correct? I'm just worried about removing the starter, 15 years of crap, crud, and corrosion on the bolts and nuts... However it looks like this could be the problem.
Another question, how long do I have, I mean is this something that will progressively get worse, meaning will I be stuck somewhere freezing to death or will the cycling of the key work until spring? Or if it's the neutral switch and I attempt to start the truck in park, can I put the truck in neutral, and would that help???
Thanks people, terrific insight, awesome website.
Found this post, awesome information, was excited about the quick and easy fix on the wiring going to the starter relay, HOWEVER noticed in the electrical schematic it says M/T and I have an automatic, bummer...
So, for those of us with A/T, our selections are either the Neutral Switch or the starter contacts, is this correct? I'm just worried about removing the starter, 15 years of crap, crud, and corrosion on the bolts and nuts... However it looks like this could be the problem.
Another question, how long do I have, I mean is this something that will progressively get worse, meaning will I be stuck somewhere freezing to death or will the cycling of the key work until spring? Or if it's the neutral switch and I attempt to start the truck in park, can I put the truck in neutral, and would that help???
Thanks people, terrific insight, awesome website.
Could be your ground straps are rusted or battery terminals corroded as well.
12-08-2008, 12:05 PM
#17
Registered User
Thread Starter
Where's the starter relay???
I started another thread about WHERE?
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-relay-161178/
I started another thread about WHERE?
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-relay-161178/
12-08-2008, 12:08 PM
#18
absolutely, and as close to the battery as possible.
Use one appropriate to the wire size. 12 gauge wire should have no more than a 20 amp fuse given the length of the run. A 15, 10 or maybe even 5 amp fuse may be used if it doesn't blow when the starter kicks in. 14 gauge or even 16 gauge wire may be used with an appropriate fuse.
Personally, I'd go 12 gauge with a 15 amp self-resetting breaker.
Use one appropriate to the wire size. 12 gauge wire should have no more than a 20 amp fuse given the length of the run. A 15, 10 or maybe even 5 amp fuse may be used if it doesn't blow when the starter kicks in. 14 gauge or even 16 gauge wire may be used with an appropriate fuse.
Personally, I'd go 12 gauge with a 15 amp self-resetting breaker.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions
And have the starter relay location noted there as well.
12-08-2008, 12:47 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
12-08-2008, 12:56 PM
#20
And one of the big advantages of adding a separate starter relay kit like I did is that you don't need to find the location of the stock relay (if present) nor do you need to identify which wires to cut. All you have to deal with is that small wire at the solenoid and that is easy to find as there is only one of them.
