sticking intake valve
10-23-2010, 10:08 AM
#1
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sticking intake valve
i have a 91 xcab 4x4 5speed 22re, had about 10mpg. it ticked for awhile but my old man wouldnt let me check that out, now i got a bad knock, pulled the valve cover and my intake valve is sticking. what causes that?
im debating weather to fix this head or buy a new one from 22re performance, would it be worth the $800 for there performance head?
im debating weather to fix this head or buy a new one from 22re performance, would it be worth the $800 for there performance head?
10-23-2010, 11:04 AM
#2
In a 22RE engine:
1. Warped/bent valve stem.
2. Deposits built up on the lower portion of the valve stem causing it to become lodged in, or unable to retract fully through, the valve guide. Thereby being unable to close fully against the valve seat, due to the lack of sufficient valve guide clearance. And causing compression loss, a ticking noise from the excessive valve to tappet clearance, and poor engine performance.
Deposits are the most likely to be at fault. Warped/bent valve stems are very rare, especially so for the much cooler operating intake valves. It would be nearly impossible for that to happen.
What causes excessive deposit build-up on the valve stems?
Being that it's most likely to be deposits, as apposed to a damaged valve, it's a relatively cheap and easy issue to solve. A simple cleaning of the valves and valve guides will probably do the trick, provided their wear is still within the factory specifications for what's allowable. But, even replacing all the valves(intake & exhaust)and all the valve guides would still be much cheaper than buying a fully loaded head.
1. Warped/bent valve stem.
2. Deposits built up on the lower portion of the valve stem causing it to become lodged in, or unable to retract fully through, the valve guide. Thereby being unable to close fully against the valve seat, due to the lack of sufficient valve guide clearance. And causing compression loss, a ticking noise from the excessive valve to tappet clearance, and poor engine performance.
Deposits are the most likely to be at fault. Warped/bent valve stems are very rare, especially so for the much cooler operating intake valves. It would be nearly impossible for that to happen.
What causes excessive deposit build-up on the valve stems?
Field experience has shown that engine oil contamination increases the possibility of sticking and/or stuck valves. This situation occurs when the contaminants in the engine lubrication oil become deposited on the valve stems, restricting the valve movement, and resulting in intermittent engine hesitation or miss. If corrective action is not taken to remove the deposits, a valve could become stuck causing engine damage.
Last edited by MudHippy; 10-24-2010 at 09:30 AM.
10-23-2010, 12:17 PM
#6
Yep, no doubt about it. They all are! You should have bought a truck with the V6 huh? The 3VZE is actually far less trouble prone than that POS, underpowered, ancient rocker arm technology plagued 22RE. Just one more thread proving my point on that.
Sorry, I don't mean to rub it in.
Sorry, I don't mean to rub it in.
Last edited by MudHippy; 10-24-2010 at 09:30 AM.
10-23-2010, 12:59 PM
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Well if my old mans name wont on the title it would already have my 307 bored 30 over twin Turbo with total chaos suspention. But that's gonna have to wait. He will only let me replace what is broke so I am gonna try to get a performance head from 22re and be done with it.
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10-23-2010, 06:03 PM
#8
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22RE is a great engine. There are no pushrods in a 22RE so I don't know what you're talking about.
22RE is cheaper, will last longer, and gets way better MPG. Don't worry when you get it running good again, it will be worth it!
22RE is cheaper, will last longer, and gets way better MPG. Don't worry when you get it running good again, it will be worth it!
10-23-2010, 06:37 PM
#9
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Yep, no doubt about it. They all are! You should have bought a truck with the V6 huh? The 3VZE is actually far less trouble prone than that POS, underpowered, ancient pushrod technology plagued 22RE. Just one more thread proving my point on that.
Sorry, I don't mean to rub it in.
Sorry, I don't mean to rub it in.
10-24-2010, 12:43 AM
#10
i have a 91 xcab 4x4 5speed 22re, had about 10mpg. it ticked for awhile but my old man wouldnt let me check that out, now i got a bad knock, pulled the valve cover and my intake valve is sticking. what causes that?
im debating weather to fix this head or buy a new one from 22re performance, would it be worth the $800 for there performance head?
im debating weather to fix this head or buy a new one from 22re performance, would it be worth the $800 for there performance head?
FTIW- retorq the head and adjust the valves, may just need some TLC. and will make it easier to diagnosis the knock.
Yep, no doubt about it. They all are! You should have bought a truck with the V6 huh? The 3VZE is actually far less trouble prone than that POS, underpowered, ancient pushrod technology plagued 22RE. Just one more thread proving my point on that.
Sorry, I don't mean to rub it in.
Sorry, I don't mean to rub it in.
You are full of your avatar. Please find me a 3.0 that has over 200,000 without a headgasket change, I know of a small hand full, 1 or 2, and thats because they didn't consider the HG recall as having to be done due to failure.22re is overhead cam / rocker arm acting direct on valve stem. if you find a pushrod in it it was planted by the chevy mechanic that was forced to work on it.
you can get a head from engnbldr.com for about 600-700 about ready to bold on with cam if my searchin was right. fixing yours would probably be around 500 if new valves, seats, rocker arms and shafts, seals, surfacing are done, if you pull it. i wouldn't suggest putting a performance head on if the bottom end isn't checked and rebuilt if close to needing it.
if your mechanically able rebuilding the engine yourself except for the headwork is fairly easy. a reman engine will cost from 900 off craigslist to over 2500 for good warranty.
you can get a head from engnbldr.com for about 600-700 about ready to bold on with cam if my searchin was right. fixing yours would probably be around 500 if new valves, seats, rocker arms and shafts, seals, surfacing are done, if you pull it. i wouldn't suggest putting a performance head on if the bottom end isn't checked and rebuilt if close to needing it.
if your mechanically able rebuilding the engine yourself except for the headwork is fairly easy. a reman engine will cost from 900 off craigslist to over 2500 for good warranty.
Last edited by muddpigg; 10-24-2010 at 12:47 AM.
10-24-2010, 01:32 AM
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i spent 150 for a local machine shop to rebuild my head for me then i put a 261 engbldr cam in and i think it all works great no sence in spending all that money for a new head when you can just get your current one fixed
10-24-2010, 10:07 AM
#12
True. Posts revised. Pushrod, rocker arm, ancient technology, asking for troubles...
I can think of atleast 2 or 3 others on here. I'll find those for you, hold tight.
As for the rest of you 22RE lovers all I have to say is this...
What's the matter 22RE lovers/3VZE haters? Don't like the taste of your own medicine? It's been a long time coming that the truth about the 22RE is now being revealed. It's the real turd. And has had many more issues, INCLUDING HEAD GASKETS, that Toyota has been forced to address through recall campaigns since it's inception. Facts are facts. One of those being that the HG recall is THE ONLY thing you guys can find to harp on about the 3VZE. And it's about time to give that a rest. That's just about the weakest argument imaginable to prefer a 4cyl over a V6. ESPECIALLY one that has THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM. And the jury is still out on this, but I suspect that the HG issues with the 22RE are even worse.
Have a nice day!
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
Last edited by MudHippy; 10-24-2010 at 10:54 AM.
10-24-2010, 11:13 AM
#13
I've got over 220K miles on my original head gaskets and I bought the truck new. I don't rev it past 3500K when shifting up through the gears (5 speed) and I typically cruise around 3000 RPM about 70 miles per hour. But other than that I've never babied the truck. It's spun up near redline several times in mud and sand. Guess I'm just lucky.
All engines blow headgaskets. Even the 'bulletproof' 22Rs do it. It does NOT cost at least $2k to fix it unless one takes it to a shop or one has allowed the leak to go on for some time where it has caused erosion of the water passages. This same condition happens to 22Rs all the damn time and no one attacks that poor little engine.
The 3VZ in my truck went 250k miles without a headgasket problem. The engine died prematurely due to the fact the my brother-in-law didn't understand the importance of keeping oil in the crankcase. Later he bought another truck with a 3VZ it had 220k on the odometer when he sold it. Again, it NEVER had a headgasket problem. These were all miles in Arizona heat.
The 3VZ in my truck went 250k miles without a headgasket problem. The engine died prematurely due to the fact the my brother-in-law didn't understand the importance of keeping oil in the crankcase. Later he bought another truck with a 3VZ it had 220k on the odometer when he sold it. Again, it NEVER had a headgasket problem. These were all miles in Arizona heat.
18mpg towing? towing what helium balloons? (LOL sorry i had to ) The best ive ever gotten towing was 15mpg....
I dont think I posted on this, but I have a 90 4runner with the 3vze and the slushomatic. OEM HG on #6 popped 3 weeks ago at 275,000 miles. (Keep in mind that 215,000 of those miles were me driving it like it was stolen - everyday it would see at least 4500rpm...I was just uber anal about oil changes. ) Up until then it was the most dependable vehicle my family has ever had. (And it was still capable of running depsite the blown HG too - albeit somewhat weakly running!)
I dont think I posted on this, but I have a 90 4runner with the 3vze and the slushomatic. OEM HG on #6 popped 3 weeks ago at 275,000 miles. (Keep in mind that 215,000 of those miles were me driving it like it was stolen - everyday it would see at least 4500rpm...I was just uber anal about oil changes. ) Up until then it was the most dependable vehicle my family has ever had. (And it was still capable of running depsite the blown HG too - albeit somewhat weakly running!)
224,000 miles here and the original headgasket to boot.
As for the #6 exhaust valve burning, that's a new one to me.
Toyota finally got the headgaskets right sometime in '95, so unless you get a real bargain on an earlier version, I think I'd pass. And to tell you the truth, I wouldn't buy a 3.0 without thinking about the $2-4,000 to replace the engine when it does die, which it will. Most of these vehicles with this engine are 10+ years old now, which means age related problems may start showing up. I'm already preparing myself for the day when my 3.0 goes.
But it would be the same story on a 22re. They're getting old also. They also had a few problems, like making sure you replace the timing chain every 100K or so, replacing the fuel filter, the long and winding intake tube, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Most vehicles have a dark side if you live with them long enough.
As for the #6 exhaust valve burning, that's a new one to me.
Toyota finally got the headgaskets right sometime in '95, so unless you get a real bargain on an earlier version, I think I'd pass. And to tell you the truth, I wouldn't buy a 3.0 without thinking about the $2-4,000 to replace the engine when it does die, which it will. Most of these vehicles with this engine are 10+ years old now, which means age related problems may start showing up. I'm already preparing myself for the day when my 3.0 goes.
But it would be the same story on a 22re. They're getting old also. They also had a few problems, like making sure you replace the timing chain every 100K or so, replacing the fuel filter, the long and winding intake tube, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Most vehicles have a dark side if you live with them long enough.
Feeling silly for asking yet?
Man...now that was pretty dag gone entertaining! Are we through here?
Last edited by MudHippy; 10-24-2010 at 12:36 PM.
10-24-2010, 12:38 PM
#16
10-25-2010, 10:45 PM
#17
Nearly all of the newer Toyota motors use Rocker arms once again. In fact, Toyota has gone to a roller rocker setup. The only reason they don't have push rods, is because its a OHC setup.
So are you saying Toyota redesigned ALL their motors specifically asking for trouble?
High dollar race car engines are Push rods with Roller rockers...are they also asking for trouble? And you absolutely CAN say cam lobe failure with the 3VZ engine. I have seen cam lobes fail, cam bores fail, cams snap in half etc etc.
Toyota reliablity is a LOT of hype, to be sure. Every engine has is problems. There is no 22R or 3VZ that was designed to last 200k without a belt/chain change, or a head gasket change. Can it be done? Sure. Should it be done? Nope. You are merely "asking for trouble"
10-26-2010, 05:18 AM
#18
Curious where you are going with this one.
Nearly all of the newer Toyota motors use Rocker arms once again. In fact, Toyota has gone to a roller rocker setup. The only reason they don't have push rods, is because its a OHC setup.
So are you saying Toyota redesigned ALL their motors specifically asking for trouble?
High dollar race car engines are Push rods with Roller rockers...are they also asking for trouble? And you absolutely CAN say cam lobe failure with the 3VZ engine. I have seen cam lobes fail, cam bores fail, cams snap in half etc etc.
Toyota reliablity is a LOT of hype, to be sure. Every engine has is problems. There is no 22R or 3VZ that was designed to last 200k without a belt/chain change, or a head gasket change. Can it be done? Sure. Should it be done? Nope. You are merely "asking for trouble"
Nearly all of the newer Toyota motors use Rocker arms once again. In fact, Toyota has gone to a roller rocker setup. The only reason they don't have push rods, is because its a OHC setup.
So are you saying Toyota redesigned ALL their motors specifically asking for trouble?
High dollar race car engines are Push rods with Roller rockers...are they also asking for trouble? And you absolutely CAN say cam lobe failure with the 3VZ engine. I have seen cam lobes fail, cam bores fail, cams snap in half etc etc.
Toyota reliablity is a LOT of hype, to be sure. Every engine has is problems. There is no 22R or 3VZ that was designed to last 200k without a belt/chain change, or a head gasket change. Can it be done? Sure. Should it be done? Nope. You are merely "asking for trouble"
10-26-2010, 11:33 AM
#19
Curious where you are going with this one.
Nearly all of the newer Toyota motors use Rocker arms once again. In fact, Toyota has gone to a roller rocker setup. The only reason they don't have push rods, is because its a OHC setup.
So are you saying Toyota redesigned ALL their motors specifically asking for trouble?
High dollar race car engines are Push rods with Roller rockers...are they also asking for trouble? And you absolutely CAN say cam lobe failure with the 3VZ engine. I have seen cam lobes fail, cam bores fail, cams snap in half etc etc.
Toyota reliablity is a LOT of hype, to be sure. Every engine has is problems. There is no 22R or 3VZ that was designed to last 200k without a belt/chain change, or a head gasket change. Can it be done? Sure. Should it be done? Nope. You are merely "asking for trouble"
Nearly all of the newer Toyota motors use Rocker arms once again. In fact, Toyota has gone to a roller rocker setup. The only reason they don't have push rods, is because its a OHC setup.
So are you saying Toyota redesigned ALL their motors specifically asking for trouble?
High dollar race car engines are Push rods with Roller rockers...are they also asking for trouble? And you absolutely CAN say cam lobe failure with the 3VZ engine. I have seen cam lobes fail, cam bores fail, cams snap in half etc etc.
Toyota reliablity is a LOT of hype, to be sure. Every engine has is problems. There is no 22R or 3VZ that was designed to last 200k without a belt/chain change, or a head gasket change. Can it be done? Sure. Should it be done? Nope. You are merely "asking for trouble"
I'm so pissed off with what Toyota's been putting out in the last 15 years. I'm not only saying that, but I think EVERYTHING they make these days is a complete JOKE! In their defense, all newer automobiles(after OBDI era)suck! I'm not impressed with any so called "innovations" that make simple rugged designs more complicated, weaker and more expensive to maintain. Which IS the current trend, IMO. Hell I can't even stand driving a rig with ABS, or electric windows, I hate that<expletive deleted>!
Won't argue about the head gaskets though. Wise man once tell me this "head gaskets are head gaskets, they all fail eventually, don't matter what motor".
I'm aware of the fact that rocker arms are still used too(who was it that recently mentioned that new V10 Toyota motor that makes 560PS/552HP and has rocker arms?). I'm also aware that there's a more elegant solution. One system isn't necessarily even better than the other though. With a properly engineered rocker arm based system everything works just fine(diamond coated rocker arms and titanium coated valves, hmmm, wonder why go to such lengths, oh yeah, weakly designed system). Pushrods/no pushrods doesn't really make much difference to me. My point being that valvetrains with cam followers instead are simpler, and by design, more rugged and reliable. Not that they never experience similar issues, or don't have unique issues of their own. But that some are a much rarer occurance with non-rocker arm valvetrains(e.g. cam lobe failure), given equal maintenance routines are followed for both. One reason is there's too many more things to go wrong with a system that has more, not fewer, parts comprising it. Murphy's Law there, don't go making Murphy's job easy for him. Simpler is almost always better in the long run(K.I.S.S.). Making complicated work, doesn't make it in any way better. Sure it's neato to work through in your head, and admire in action, but generally speaking is not the best approach to take in engineering.
Gee how fun it is to finally have a true point/counter-point debate about it though!
And NO, I still won't trade you my 3VZE for your 22RE. Don't make me laugh!
BTW, have you seen all the 3VZE cam lobe failure threads? Yeah, me neither. Maybe because a cam follower has to fail in two important respects before it's going to start wearing on the cam lobe. There's two ways for them to spin and act as a roller bearing when coming into contact with the cam lobe, and thereby potentially lessen wear to it. Spinning in their bores and/or the shim can spin atop them. Either way the cam lobe sees it as a roller bearing.
Now what's the deal with the cam lobe failures on a 22RE. Seems like the concensus is most are either caused by poor lubrication, or mysterious "unknown causes". Yeah right, there probably all due to poor lubrication. Why think that? Because rocker arms require it in abundance. Remember where the cam lobe meets the rocker arm on these things is essentially a friction bearing.
Seeing where I'm headed with this? Precisely, what do you want contacting your cam lobe, a friction bearing, or a roller bearing? Rocker arms with roller bearings you say? Not in your 22RE I'm afraid.
Last edited by MudHippy; 10-26-2010 at 06:20 PM.
