pickle6415

I went out to start my 4 runner this morning, I like to let it run for a few minutes before I drive anywhere, and I turned the key and got a "click". Just one, not the stuttering clicks or any grinding. Haaaaaaalp!!!!

So here is my dilemma, I absolutely LOVE digging into my baby to work on it. I want to do this myself, but I don't know how to tell if it's the starter or the solenoid! I'm a sucker for the dirt, grime and grease - but I'm relatively new to it. (I usually just stick to working on my 4 wheeler because it's smaller scale and the parts are cheap.) I don't want to tear into something I don't know anything about and end up making things worse. If I can save any money doing this myself I would like to, I gotta be cheap with the hunting season starting. I have to make sure I have enough moolah to pay for pretty much the whole month of October. Licenses aren't too bad, but gas, ammo, and food adds up fast!

I priced out a new starter at about $65-$75 but there is a rebuild kit available. Is it an intense process to rebuild one? Is it really worth it? Or am I better off just buying a new one? I also have the option to take it to an electrical parts shop and have them take a look at it I suppose, but it's about an hour drive from where I live. If I'm better off just replacing the part it's self then I don't want to drive that far.

I know that y'all are awesome, and there is a wealth of knowledge on these forums as well as a lot of experience! I hope you can give me some pointers and educate me a bit so that I'm not such a noob and I can dig into these things with a bit more confidence in what I'm doing. LOL

mwisham

I believe the solenoid is actually part if the starter so you have to replace the whole thing. You can get a starter from most parts places ( AutoZone, NAPA, O'reiley's etc ) with a lifetime warranty for a fair price. I would get one of those and put it on.
BUT, did you do proper diagnosis to eliminate the battery as the source of the problem? Or it could be the alternator not giving the battery enough of a charge. Most parts houses will do a load test on your battery and test your alternator for free so make sure you cover all the bases before just throwing parts at it.

scope103

You're way ahead of yourself.

First, stick your multimeter on the battery when someone turns the key. It should be around 12.6v with nothing on. If it drops to 11v or less when the key is turned, your battery isn't charged. Next, FIND the click. The starter relay is in RB2 http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b.../2powersou.pdf . If that's the click you hear, your problem isn't the starter.

Next, read this: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml He gives the rest of the electrical diagnosis. (By the way, have you noticed that no "dirt grime and grease" are involved? At least not yet.)

DON'T start by pulling the starter to have it tested. Removing your starter is just not for the faint of heart (most of us have to go through the rt tire well). Make sure it's the starter before you even touch a wrench!

IF your problem is in the starter, it's most likely the contacts in the solenoid. They are easy to replace (sorry, mwisham). The cited article goes through how to do it. 4Crawler will even sell you the parts.

pickle6415

Mwisham - Yeah I didn't have time to do the diagnostics before work this morning, but I plan to take a good look at it tonight. I'm seriously praying it's not an alternator issue, I just replaced the battery and the cables not long ago (they are still under warranty actually). I will be checking the charge on the battery, and going through the wires from there back to the starter checking connections.

Scope - Thanks for the links and info! I will get a look at it when I get home tonight. I will be sure to post an update when I know more. This is why I love this place, you guys are awesome! (Truthfully I didn't want to pull ANYTHING if I didn't need to, I know that a some of the parts are a pain to get to and I didn't want to get ahead of myself)

mwisham

Hey, no offense taken. My thinking is if you have to pull the starter to put contacts in the solenoid, it would be easier to just go ahead and replace the starter with one that has a warranty. If the solenoid contacts are worn out, then next it will be the armature bushings or brushes or whatever. I just like to do a job once and be done with it. Proper diagnosis is the key to any repair. IMO that's what separates a real mechanic from a parts changer.

pickle6415

Amen to that! If It's a pain to get to and I'm already there I might as well do all of it and remove any sort of future doubt for myself. It's worth it.

Also, I did listen to the click this morning with the hood up. It's definitely not on the passenger side. It sounds like it's around the drivers side of the engine somewhere. Not sure if that helps at all, and like I said i didn't have a whole lot of time to look into it. I did print off that wiring diagram and some more info from that article so I can really look at it tonight.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Which motor do you have. I dont know where the Starter Relay is on a 3.0. On a 22re, it is on the passenger side. I clean the contacts on the Starter Relay, replace the contacts in the Starter and even then I still have gotten the click only sound. Look up RAD4Runners fix. It shortens the path down and I have never had the click only sound again.

Some links
Alternator Rebuild Link>> http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/fo...-22RE-4AGE-etc

Starter Brushes PN#DRK Rebuild Kit http://nationstarteralternator.com/


Another link>> http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/mainte...nator_brushes/

Starter Rebuild Video.

All the things I have done>>> https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post51994693

pickle6415

Dang Terry! You have been busy! I can I just borrow your brain for like a week? But on a serious note how did your breaks turn out? I glanced through your list of work and saw that you really did a lot of work on them. Mine have been a bit.... hm, loose I guess? You really have to push the pedal in pretty far to engage them. When I had safety done they tried to bleed them a bit. My mechanic says the calipers and lines are all good, and the rotors are in great shape, it just doesn't like to engage until the pedal is almost to the floor. Then they work great, I'm just wondering if you have ideas on how I could improve the response after tearing yours apart and basically rebuilding them?

Thanks for posting all the info, and the links! You guys are so helpful!

There are so many things I want to work on with my baby, I'm comfortable doing most of it as it's cosmetic. But there are so many parts I need to find! It took me months to track down a washer fluid reservoir! I still need the rear wiper arm (I have a perfectly good motor, rear fluid dispenses flawlessly), gotta replace the rear drivers side bearings, it badly needs paint (the DOT here uses salt on the roads in the winter and I have some rust starting to show up ) and the more I see Kyle's Orange and White paint the more envious I am! I want to do an electric blue or a green maybe? and I want to do the bottom 10 inches or so of the body in bedliner.

I also want a new dash cover, mine is cracking in 2 spots. And the Drivers seat upholstery is starting to tear a bit on the outer side, curses for me being so short. I think the way I get into it is wearing in the same spot - where the tear is. Thank goodness for seat covers.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Took me minute to figure out which thread I did the brake job on. I have rebuilt calipers but for the cost of new calipers, I would suggest just buying some good rebuilt calipers. You will come out further ahead in the long run. Spend the extra for an Aisin Master Cylinder and flush the lines real well. New front rotors can be bought for just a few more dollars then having the old turned.

On the rear, same with Aisin slave cylinder, have the drums turned and a good quality set of pads. Once you get them adjusted correctly, the factory brakes work great in stock form. Not sure how they would work if you went with a much larger tire combo but with 31 inch tires the stock system is great.

I will take a look and see if there is something else you could do for better braking and not having to push the pedal so far.

pickle6415

My tires are 33" so I would imagine that the stock system should be okay. I will look at the new master and slave cylinders, that would probably make a noticeable difference LOL. I don't know how long since the brakes have been deeply inspected. I have had this 4 Runner for a little over 4 years and haven't done anything with the brakes, other than replacing the brake pads a couple years ago (during routine maintenance).

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

How is the rubber lines on the front of your truck? They can get bad and swell up instead of applying that pressure to the calipers.

I know it can be a little difficult on finding information on here so what I have tried to do is on the links in my signature, on the first page of each of my build threads I try to show how to work on several problems that come up on these trucks.

Next week I plan on doing the rear brakes on my 88 Runner and will try to see if there is some information I can post about brakes when doing it. I will look at the fronts and see what I can on those as well.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Since you are running 33s, look at the V6 brake upgrade. The Master Cylinder has a bigger bore and I have heard it makes a big improvement. I was going to do it but with 31s I dont need the better braking system at this time. Make sure your rear brakes are engaging.

You can manually get under there and adjust your brakes, but I like to go in reverse and using the parking brake, just pump the handle to get them adusted. It can take a few times to get them adjusted.

Setting the parking brake is what adjust them, but I am bad about not setting the parking brake so I just use the driving in reverse method.

pickle6415

Oh nice, I bet the V6 Brake upgrade will make a difference! I will take a look at the lines on the brakes tonight when I'm looking at the starter/battery/alternator thing. I hadn't heard of using the parking brake to adjust them, though now that you have said it I feel like an idiot for not thinking of something simple like that. LOL

I will try and get some pictures of the brakes and calipers/rotors/etc and get them posted, sometimes it's easier to just look at a picture than try to understand a description. Werds r hard.

RAD4Runner

Listen to Scope103!
Do not remove or replace anything until you are absolutely sure that it is the problem and that after spending your hard-earned cash and time it will fix the problem.

Until you're absolutely sure exactly what and where is clicking, people helping remotely (like staring at a screen 700 miles away - LOL!) would not be able to help much. A problem well-stated is a problem half-solved. I suggest putting "truck-model-year-engine" on your signature so people know right away what we are dealing with - especially people who have exactly same truck-year-model-engine you have and having exactly same symptoms as you're having.

Now we're talking. Also got volt-meter?

pickle6415

DONE! I thought I had done that, but I guess not LOL

And as far as looking at a screen across the country I completely understand. Most of the time with mechanical stuff you really need to see it or hear it in person. I would NEVER just rip things apart on a whim (although I can see how, re-reading that first post, it sounded like that was where I was going haha). Which is why I came here and made this post! I knew that someone out there had to have had this issue at some point, I certainly can't be the first one! I didn't want to do anything until I was sure, and knowing how many people have worked on cars there had to be someone that could give me some pointers.

I do have a volt-meter, but I had to work late last night and didn't get a chance to take a look at everything before it got dark. It's been so hazy here from the fires (in Cali and Utah) that it gets too dark earlier than usual :/ kind of a bummer. I get done early on Friday's though, and will have plenty of time to check things out today. I did, however, take time this morning to check one more thing. I shifted through the gears and tried starting it again (it's an A/T) to be sure it wasn't the neutral safety switch. I have had that issue in my Mazda a few times. I also took time to listen again, and although the lights and radio come on and windows work, it sounds like it may just be that my battery is weak. It didn't just "click" like before, it sounded like it was "trying" to turn over. Which sounds like it just needs more juice to crank. I'm going to check the battery when I get home and see what kind of voltage is there, if it's low I will charge it and try again.

If it is the battery I can take it in and have it checked out, it's still under warranty so I can swap it out if I need to. I will also take a look at the alternator and make sure that isn't the culprit. That's something I am familiar with - my '86 VW Jetta had serious problems, and the alternator was one of them.

RAD4Runner

COOL, but need to include "A/T" in signature. It matters significantly when troubleshooting. It takes too much time to read the whole posts, many of them wordy, to find just those three characters "A, / , T".

Do not mess with the alternator, YET. It will not cause a click-only issue directly.

Yes, go ahead have your battery tested.

Shifting through gears will not absolutely eliminate doubt on neutral safety switch (NSS). If it is defective, putting it in neutral or park will STILL not do anything.

You still have not told us exactly what clicks. Starter relay? Starter solenoid ? Again, that will tell us a lot, and save on numerous posts back and forth. Let me reiterate, a problem well-stated is a problem half solved.

I believe your generation truck has starter relay in relay block # 2


Red line shows power path on 1990-1995 V6 A/T.
After you are absolutely sure that battery is good and reconnected properly, I strongly recommend you do this, even if you do not have a cranking issue anymore. Toyota had messed this up on first-gens. There is no guarantee it did not do it on second-gen 4runners:
Check voltage on pin 5 of starter relay. There should always be 12V there, even if ignition switch is in OFF position.

If still having issue, try this special service tool to bypass starter relay and NSS.


happy weekend

pickle6415

Okay, over the weekend I did some checking (lots of cleaning, I didn't realize how dirty things were under the hood!) and tried to troubleshoot. It's definitely NOT coming from the starter relay, or the solenoid/starter. I feel like I keep walking away from it with more questions than answers! So, I am going to bite the bullet and take it in to my mechanic. The same guy has done ALL the work on my 4Runner since I bought it. He will be able to figure it out a lot faster than I will, and a lot more definitively. I will take it over today after work. I need to have him check my A/T Temp sensor too, I think it's either loose or shorted out cause it flashes on an off sporadically.

I appreciate all of you guys and your help! I will be sure to post what exactly he finds out when he checks under the hood.

pickle6415

Oh and I forgot to mention Terry! I looked at the brake lines and they look like they have seen better days. I'm going to talk to my mechanic and have him check the master and see if it's still in good shape. If it's already there I might as well right?

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

If your Master Cylinder is failing, get an Aisin. They are about the only ones that don't cause problems. Most likely you will need to get it online. I forgot where I got my last one at but they are reasonably priced and will save you some headaches.

Odin

I subscribe to that.
Where do you find the Aisin aftermarket brake master cylinder and wheel cylinder part numbers?
They don't seem to be on the http://www.aisinaftermarket.com/ site, I don't see them over at rock auto either. I hate to trust that kind of thing to Amazon or a parts store site.

91 2WD Standard 1/2 Ton 22RE