wilshire

Here's a video of what it's doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5R9_DBM6qI


My old transmission was doing the 3rd and 5th gear whine, so I bought a used one to swap in.

Had the flywheel refinished, installed all new clutch parts. Bolted it up and... this one whines in all gears, even neutral.

When I release the clutch pedal and engage the clutch, it whines. When I press the clutch pedal to disengage the clutch, the whining stops.

I've searched around and a lot of people say 'pilot bearing' when they hear these symptoms, but that doesn't make sense. The pilot bearing is brand new and it turns when the clutch is disengaged, not when it's engaged.

Does this sound right? What's involved in R&R'ing an input shaft bearing?

wilshire

The more I read, the surer I am that it's got a bad input shaft. The FSM procedure for installing a new input shaft bearing involves using a press (which I don't have) and fitting a new c-clip (which I don't have). Any pointers there? I searched everywhere but I can't find any more info on replacing a transmission input shaft bearing.

Seems strange, as the guy I bought it from said it only had 50k miles on it. The clutch parts and flywheel that came with it were in good shape and even the shifter seat looked great. I can't really imagine he was lying about it. I'm trying to remember if there was much play in the input shaft but I can't remember for sure.

I really had to manhandle the thing to get it to line back up when I swapped it in. Maybe I screwed something up doing that.

allnmstkn313

Yeah, I'd be leaning towards input shaft issues too. Definitely on the transmission side.

Easy enough to check for bearing slop and shaft wear, but sadly you will have to remove it again. Everything you need information wise is here http://myweb.dal.ca/is353832/93fsm/manualtrans.html You will need a press, or some very long bearing separators, no way around it.

I'd really doubt you damaged it while installing, more likely it was f4wked to begin with.

yayfortrees

I believe that is the input shaft bearing. I can tell you whether it is or not for sure tomorrow. My truck was making that exact same sound. Last week, I had to pull the trans to get to the rear main anyway, so I called up a transmission shop. I had talked to their service writer, and he said that the input shaft shouldn't have any side to side movement. Mine had a little bit, so I took it over.

The tech that looked at it there said it looked ok, and that it needs a little bit of movement. I had them tear it down anyway, because I knew it was really worn out, and I found the shift boot completely separated in two pieces, and had let water get in. There was condensation on the bottom of the shift plate when I took it out, and the oil was a little milky.

So far, he called back, told me it would need to be rebuilt (for $982!). When I asked him more specific questions, he didn't really know, and could only tell me it needs bushings, seals, and some brass.

I was going to call them today and talk to them again, but forgot. I will call them back tomorrow and ask specifically the condition of the input shaft bearing. I may have lucked out and found a transmission in a parts truck. I should be able to find out if it's good in the next day or two.

I'm not real sure what's involved with R&R on that, but I've heard it's easy once the trans is out. Mine (W55) had a plate bolted on the case. It looked like the bearing was probably under that plate, but I didn't unbolt it.

I'll let you know as soon as I find out if the bearing was for sure bad on mine, and making that noise.

yayfortrees

And yes, a press would be helpful, but I would guess that you could find or get a bearing driver to fit it, and drive it in with a hammer.

wilshire

Who sells the bearing and snap rings?

Edit: It looks like I should be able to reuse the snap ring.

yayfortrees

Probably best to go OEM from the dealer. You should also be able to get it from just about any parts store, or match it up at a bearing store, but who knows what kind of quality you will get. It will likely be more from the dealer, but it will probably last another who knows how many thousands of miles.

I didn't get the trans shop called today, but I did pick up the parts truck. I will get them called tomorrow for sure, and let you know what they say.

First impressions of the trans are good. I should find out tomorrow if it really is or not.

allnmstkn313

Would definitely stick with Toyota for transmission parts. IIRC it's only like ~80 bucks and the c-clip is dirt cheap.

yayfortrees

80 bucks?! Wow, that's more than I thought it would be.

Wilshire, I had a thought last night. How much grease did you put on the splines of the input shaft? When I replaced the motor a year ago, I think I only put a little bit of grease on them, like barely enough to cover it. I'm thinking maybe I didn't have enough grease on that, and it might be making noise because of that. I don't remember having that problem from before, so I thought it may have had something to do with my install. I know I had other problems anyway, but just a thought.

wilshire

I'm guessing that the OEM bearing is made by NSK, Nachi, or something like that. Not manufactured by Toyota. The transmission isn't. It shouldn't be hard to find someone that carries it and doesn't sell it at dealership markup. Maybe I'll give Marlin Crawler a call. They do transmission rebuilds so I have to imagine they have these parts on hand.

The snap ring is a little weird. The FSM says to use one with a thickness that allows 'minimum axial play'. It also says that the snap ring is a reusable part. If I can't reuse mine I'm not sure how to track one down that's the correct size.

Pretty sure I put enough grease on the input shaft splines. I don't think that would cause this problem even if I didn't.

It also says you have to use an SST when you press the new bearing on. So far on all of my yota wrenching projects, "SST" has just been an alias for 'tiny bit of creativity'. Will I actually need the SST?

yayfortrees

Driving bearings in square can be tricky without the proper tool, but yeah, if you're creative enough, and careful on the install, you can do it without the SST.

I'm still trying to get a hold of the owner of the trans shop. The guy I've talked to so far won't tell me anything. I'm starting to get a little annoyed.

allnmstkn313

I've always just used various size pipes/bearing separators, and my ancient 20ton press for installing/removing bearings. The SST for installing bearings/seals is often a glorified pipe.

As for the c-clip, you measure the gap and use the largest possible, which means you may end up re-using it.

Input shaft splines get a light coat of grease. Has nothing to do with the sound you're getting though... Not a clutch sound.

You may just be better off junkyarding a transmission with a 60 day or whatever warranty, if you're not comfortable with transmissions.

wilshire

I think I can figure it out. Changing the bearing seems pretty straightforward and it's about time I bought a press anyway.

The transmission supposedly only has 50k miles on it. The guy I bought it from gave me the clutch flywheel from it, both of which were in good shape. Even the shifter seat in it was pristine. Based on that I'm thinking that this is probably a decent gearbox and maybe I f'd up the input shaft or my new clutch disk when i put it in. It did not slide gently into place. I really had to heave on it.

My theory is that either the input shaft was bad or weak from the get go and/or my heaving busted it, and that it's otherwise a solid transmission. I'd like to just repair what seems to be wrong with it, especially since it seems cheap/easy once I actually have the parts I need in hand.

wilshire

I just pulled out the swapper transmission. The pilot bearing and clutch look like they're fine. I didn't damage them during the install.

It's hard to tell that there's anything wrong with the input shaft on the swapper. I haven't pulled it out yet. It has a little end play but not a ton. It may feel just a little sloppier than the shaft on the other transmission, but I could be imagining. I hope the problem isn't something any deeper in the gearbox.

allnmstkn313

The input shaft should rotate and that's about it, should be near zero play.

Hows the very tip of the input shaft where it sits in the pilot bearing?

Problem with transmissions is all you can do is localize the sound to the transmission itself, and then theorize. A little surgery is always needed for specific diagnosis.

yayfortrees

That sounds just like the trans that I pulled out, and like the one that I'm putting in. The input shaft has a little bit of play, and spins very smoothly. I will be picking up the transmission parts tomorrow. I still can't get anybody there to answer my question about the input shaft, so I will just have to inspect when I get everything home.

A bit of bad news: I am done stripping the parts truck, so I turned my attention back to my good truck. I pulled the flywheel, and the plate behind it. I decided I had better put the plate up against the donor transmission, to make sure it will bolt up right. It doesn't. Even though it's a W55 trans, the bell housing is apparently different. I hope I will be able to swap the bell housings, which I have to pick up tomorrow. I guess I should have known better, but I thought the trans out of a V6 equipped truck would bolt right up to my 22R-E, since the trans. code was the same. If I can't swap the bell housings, or if anything else is different, I'm screwed.

Back to our original problem: I don't remember my transmission making that noise before I swapped the motor. Since it sat for a year after the motor swap, that doesn't mean much. Before I knew that the input shaft needs a little bit of freeplay, I thought that meant the bearing was bad. Everything was making sense until I took the transmission over, and the tech said it felt good. So much for my theory. Turned out, a lot of components were bad inside, not just the input shaft bearing.

Still, I don't know what specifically was making that noise. I still think the splines were too light on grease. That, combined with a little input shaft movement while the clutch is engaged, could make some noise (I would think). I realize this is a weak argument, since there were bad components inside, which would be the likely cause. The reason I say that, is because I don't think it made any kind of noise like that before I swapped the motor. Also, when I pulled the transmission, there wasn't much grease at all on the splines of the input shaft. I guess I may never know, because that transmission isn't going back in the way it is. If it wasn't extra work that I don't have time for, I would grease the splines and re-install it as is, just to see if it makes a difference.

As far as you damaging anything when installing it, that would be really difficult, unless you were using a sledge hammer to get it to mate up. All of those components are really strong, and by the time the tip of the input shaft touches the pilot bearing, things are already lined up pretty close.

That sound in the video is exactly the sound my transmission was making. Is that what you are referring to as it whining? I would call that more of a whirring sound than a whine. Is that the same noise your old one was making? If so, it sounds like that noise may be from something besides just a bearing. Have you looked at the gear oil in it? My old trans had gotten water in it, so the oil came out milky. That would explain some of the problems. Hope you don't have the same.

wilshire

"That sound in the video is exactly the sound my transmission was making. Is that what you are referring to as it whining?"

That's the sound that the 'new' swapper makes. The old one doesn't do that. The old one has a different sounding whine in 3rd and 5th. Yes, it's a bit more of a whir than a whine.

TOYOTA 1

did you make sure there is gear oil in it?

sorry, i had to ask

516593812

Dumb question but i have to ask since i think my truck also has a bad inout shaft bearing (drives great but makes a whining noise when accelerating or decelerating) What would hapen if i just left it alone? It's been about 5k miles & it's not any worse, shifts fine, etc. What's the worst case scenario if you don't fix something like this? How long would it go before the transmission gives out? How exactly woudl the tranmission fail due to this problem?

Thanks!

PismoJoe

Thats the sound of early to mid stages of your pilot bearing going out. My tacoma was doing the same thing. It makes the noise with the clutch not pushed in, right?