*SNAP* Rear Axle sheared off at 45mph and tire went for a ride! - Page 2

neliconcept · 04-15-2007, 10:38 PM

wow, glad that it didnt cause a roll or something of that sort,

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**Lysmachia** · 04-15-2007, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80W90

Good thing nobody got hurt.
The axle was not installed properly. Sorry had to say it.

The sleeve that butts up against the inner bearing has a thick C clip. you didnt get this clip far enuff down into the groove.

the full meal deal comes unglued when this isnt done right. Drum, axle and wheel. So your axle didnt snap, but I imagine all that spline damage is from its journey on the way out, and the road.

I am glad you are ok.

Hmmm... I better let my friend who built the truck that I bought it from know becuase he is building another truck currently. He really is a great mechanic (A toyota tech) but he must have missed something. I am surprised that it lasted this long - I have had the truck for 1.5 years and have put about 10K miles on it...

Well lesson learned for me and I don't hold it against the guy who built it as he really did a great job on everything else. I guess it can be easy to miss something huh?

**Lysmachia** · 04-15-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliconcept

wow, glad that it didn't cause a roll or something of that sort,

You ain't kidding Blake... It really could have been very bad. Again I contribute our safe "landing" to Troy's quick thinking and excellent driving skill....

Thank you all for your great suggestions and kind words.

Ganoid · 04-16-2007, 03:24 AM

Now you just gotta hope the Detroit splines don't look like the axle splines or its going to be a considerably more costly to repair. Chances are you will need some parts for your locker.

chopitrakeit · 04-16-2007, 05:20 AM

Similar story: circa 1991, 1976 Blazer with 6.2 diesel and all my personal belonings in side,on a tow bar being towed by 84 22r Toy 4x4with tools and spare transfer cas/tranny in bed. Moving home, 5 hr drive, running heater full blast to keep Toy from overheating...quite a site, really pounding the poor toy. 1 hr from home, spin on sand leaving truck stop..bang, no forward movement! Rear drive shaft spun freely, figured rear diff toasted so I lock hubs, put her in 4 Hi and rock on in "front wheel drive. Blasting down hill at 70+ to get over the top etc, still runn the heater as an Aux cooling system.
OK, I am 2 mils from home, winding secondary road, BANG, CRUNCH, BOING, SMASH...
Toys left rear wheel with a stub of axle and brake drum attached bounce of the front of the Blazer and rolls by a guy raking his yard! I pull off to a literal grinding stop on the backing plat with axle goo and brake shoes flying off.
Axle sheared right off inboard of the c clip groove, looks like scarf marks from a bearing job done long ago.
2 (TWO) tow trucks to get me the 2(TWO) miles home, rake guy was unimpresed.
I drove about 60 miles at speeds as fast as I could go, towing the Blazer with that wheel held on by the rust/interference fit! Talk about luck it didnt come of at 70 on the hiway!
Wish I had pictures! Lived to tell about it though! Mike

SteveO · 04-16-2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80W90

Good thing nobody got hurt.
The axle was not installed properly. Sorry had to say it.

The sleeve that butts up against the inner bearing has a thick C clip. you didnt get this clip far enuff down into the groove.

the full meal deal comes unglued when this isnt done right. Drum, axle and wheel. So your axle didnt snap, but I imagine all that spline damage is from its journey on the way out, and the road.

I am glad you are ok.

Are you talking about a domestic axle, such as a D44 axle? I know those type of setups use a C-clip on the inside of the axle. I was not aware of Toyota's using a C-clip on the inside of the axle. With Toyota having a 3rd member that drops out, how would you get the C-clip onto the inside of the axle?

Domestic innards of the diff:

Another image of the inner axle shaft on a domestic or C-clip type axle shaft:

Again, with the drop out 3rd, I don't see how you can place a C-clip on the inside of the axle, when the 3rd member is put in.

Unless, you have some special way.....

edit: There is an article that talks about the Toyota's having Pressed in bearings that hold it all together. The C-clip eliminator, uses pressed in bearings. Toyota, as far as I know, uses pressed in bearings to hold it all together. When the bearing fails, you loose the wheel.

With the tremendous side loads being placed on our rigs when wheeling, these bearings are prone to loosen up. When my wife was driving my rig home, I was following her and noted that the driver rear wheel was wobbling a bit. I pulled the shaft and drum, and noted that the bearing had some play in it. I decided right there, it was full-floater time. I have the FROR Full floater kit, and it is awesome! I don't worry about pressed in bearings failing anymore due to a heavy vehicle side loading the bearings. Plus, now my bearings are servicable when I want to service them.

Pest · 04-16-2007, 07:42 AM

Holy crap, that just seems like something you'd see on some comedy skit, with the wheel flying past the vehicle.

Just while we're on the same topic, is it possible for the front wheels to pop out like that? Or is that just a rear thing with the pressed in bearings?

SteveO · 04-16-2007, 07:46 AM

The newer Toyotas, Tacos and 4Runners from 95.5 or 96 and up I believe have pressed on bearings on the front. However, I belive they have a captive nut that keeps it all in place. Should you break an axle, I don't think you can remove the shaft, becase the bolt (nut) on the end keeps it all in place. I seem to recall that some guy removed his broken shaft and didn't have a Manual Hub setup, and nearly lost the front wheel.

I dunno, somebody else needs to chime in on this one.

mt_goat · 04-16-2007, 07:51 AM

Wow, that's got to be a shock. The sales guys at the car lot must have thought it was their lucky day, someone finally drove one till the wheels fell off right in front of us, lol.

So what's involved with repairing it? Or are you going to a full floater?

SteveO · 04-16-2007, 07:56 AM

Just my opinion, but I think at this point, giving your tendancies to push the limits of Tippy, you would be better off going to a Full Floater. Brian at FROR can hook you up with the parts you need to make Tippy into a stronger rig. You may be able to using the existing axle tube, and slap Brian's Full Floater kit on. In the long run, you will definitly be ahead of the game.

Marc P · 04-16-2007, 08:31 AM

Wow Molly....Glad you guys are ok.

Kinda reminds me of that video in the off topic section of that Regal on 30's going down the dragstrip!!

Yota82 · 04-16-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZUK

The rear is a semi-floater.....you didn't even break an axle...the splines tell the story.

What happened is somebody did not press the bearing assembly on right. They left off the safety sleeve and/or clip that prevents the bearing from walking off the shaft. As it starts to walk off, the spline engagement on the axle ends becomes "less" and the result is the spline damage you have there. The wheel comes off all the way when the bearing walks all the way off the surface. You had better remove the other side and check for the pressed on sleeve/clip.

Beat me to it ZUK! Had it happen to me (in Mexico of all places). Wasn't an axle issue but a wheel bearing.

ZUK · 04-16-2007, 09:20 AM

from the pic below...I don't see the bearing on there. If what I said was correct then the bearing should still be behind the backing plate.

Brenjen · 04-16-2007, 09:25 AM

All my Dodges are full floating & I swore I would always use them when possible; I didn't know about the lack of a C-clip in these Toyota's....sounds like an engineer over thought the problem.

I guess I need to bookmark FROR because I can't deal with problems that could have been avoided ahead of time.....I just start flinging cuss words & tools until I calm down enough to think of a solution.

That's why I visit forums like these when I get something I have no experience with; it saves a lot of headaches in the long run. I would have gone nuclear on my 4 runner if I had that happen to me before reading about it here.

Sorry about your luck by the way, glad no one was injured. Also; it might not be the previous owners fault, sometimes things just break.

SteveO · 04-16-2007, 09:26 AM

maybe the 4 bolts that attach the bearing to the houseing failed.......maybe..don't know.

edit: either way, I'm real interested to see and hear what the real failure was. Good lesson for us.

drew303 · 04-16-2007, 11:04 AM

Looks like you need a new rear axle.

I broke my two clips getting them off my rear axles but I got new ones from the dealership for like $2. =) If the shop didnt have the right tools or jig to press the bearings on it's easy to not get them on all the way.

As for the full-floater conversion. It's expensive.

I just went with chromoly rears.

Also, you sure you didnt notice ANYTHING odd before the axle came out? With the excess runout on the that rear side you'd of felt pulsation in your brake peddle..

drew303 · 04-16-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveO

maybe the 4 bolts that attach the bearing to the houseing failed.......maybe..don't know.

edit: either way, I'm real interested to see and hear what the real failure was. Good lesson for us.

No, notice the dust shield is still ont eh axle housing.

Was bearing failure or or C-clip failure for sure.

drew303 · 04-16-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenjen

All my Dodges are full floating & I swore I would always use them when possible; I didn't know about the lack of a C-clip in these Toyota's....sounds like an engineer over thought the problem.

The axles DO have a C-clip.

edit.

The clip is at the end of the axle, not in the differential. You press the bearing on the axle far enough down to where a C-clip slids on into a groove that prevents the bearing from "un-pressing" itself. The only thing holding that axle onto the truck is the bearing on the axle and the bearing inside the bearing case which is held to the axle by 4 bolts. The clip keeps the axle from moving perpendicular to the bearing.

An very worn out bearing can cause axle run-out which can cause permanent warpage of the axle flange on OE axles. Which in turn wears out the OE differential. I can't imagine spline damage unless it got very severe but i dont think you'd be driving the vehicle at that point =p

tc · 04-16-2007, 11:14 AM

There are parts of the bearing still in there.

If the axle housing is fubar, and it were to be replaced, even with cromoly axles, this COULD happen again. The ~$1000 to go FF and disc brakes from FROR + the other parts you need to supply seems pretty cheap by comparison.

I didn't feel anything terribly unusual, just the rear end dropped down and I looked to the left and saw the tire passing us - it took a while to pass us!

SteveO · 04-16-2007, 11:15 AM

Does anybody have a pic of this "C-clip" at the end of the axle? I'm curious to see it.

tc · 04-16-2007, 11:18 AM

[quote=Lysmachia;50501980]You can see the splines are stripped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveO

Does anybody have a pic of this "C-clip" at the end of the axle? I'm curious to see it.

Here's the end of the axle ... I don't see a groove in it!

SteveO · 04-16-2007, 11:19 AM

[quote=tc;50502507]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysmachia

You can see the splines are stripped.

Here's the end of the axle ... I don't see a groove in it!

I think they mean on the other end of the axle, where the bearing is.

tc · 04-16-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pest

Just while we're on the same topic, is it possible for the front wheels to pop out like that? Or is that just a rear thing with the pressed in bearings?

The Toyota solid axles and pretaco trucks have FF fronts. The wheel is held on with tapered rolling bearings secured by a double spindle nut arrangement. As a matter of fact, how the FROR kit works is to mount SFA spindles on the rear with disc brakes off a Supra...

Tacomas and 3+ gen 'runners have a semifloating front. If you have one, you MUST carry at least the outer stub of a CV to hold the wheel on if the CV breaks.

Tdubbs05 · 04-16-2007, 11:33 AM

now that's a sight to see. good job w/ getting pics up. geez that must have been one hell of a scare.

drew303 · 04-16-2007, 11:35 AM

tc, thats the wrong side of the axle. I said theres no clip on the differential end.

Could happen again? This is the first time I've heard of it happening on a toyota.

No one has said if the wheel-bearing was replaced? It would make a heck of a lot more sense if it'd been tampered with because this happening on a factory job could mean something TOTALLY else. Failure of the bearing? C-clip?

Molly said it has a detroit, were the bearings replaced then? The c-clip and bearing have nothing to do with a locker install unless you're servicing the whole axle.

04-16-2007, 03:24 AM	#29 (permalink)
Ganoid Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Salem,Oregon Posts: 508	Now you just gotta hope the Detroit splines don't look like the axle splines or its going to be a considerably more costly to repair. Chances are you will need some parts for your locker. __________________ 1990 Xcab beast of burden 3.0 Rebuild/Precision balanced w/OS valves Custom ported/welded Intake manifolds Downey headers, Jacobs Ign 4" Trail Gear SAS + rear Kit R151 + Dual cases (2.28+4.7) 5.29's,Tru Trac/Lockright on 35 BFG's 140A GM CS144 alt/Hyd assist steering DOA Racing = $1200 lesson in who NOT to deal with

04-16-2007, 05:20 AM	#30 (permalink)
chopitrakeit Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 115	Similar story: circa 1991, 1976 Blazer with 6.2 diesel and all my personal belonings in side,on a tow bar being towed by 84 22r Toy 4x4with tools and spare transfer cas/tranny in bed. Moving home, 5 hr drive, running heater full blast to keep Toy from overheating...quite a site, really pounding the poor toy. 1 hr from home, spin on sand leaving truck stop..bang, no forward movement! Rear drive shaft spun freely, figured rear diff toasted so I lock hubs, put her in 4 Hi and rock on in "front wheel drive. Blasting down hill at 70+ to get over the top etc, still runn the heater as an Aux cooling system. OK, I am 2 mils from home, winding secondary road, BANG, CRUNCH, BOING, SMASH... Toys left rear wheel with a stub of axle and brake drum attached bounce of the front of the Blazer and rolls by a guy raking his yard! I pull off to a literal grinding stop on the backing plat with axle goo and brake shoes flying off. Axle sheared right off inboard of the c clip groove, looks like scarf marks from a bearing job done long ago. 2 (TWO) tow trucks to get me the 2(TWO) miles home, rake guy was unimpresed. I drove about 60 miles at speeds as fast as I could go, towing the Blazer with that wheel held on by the rust/interference fit! Talk about luck it didnt come of at 70 on the hiway! Wish I had pictures! Lived to tell about it though! Mike __________________ 1995 xcab with blown up 3.0, soon to be 3.9 Cummins.Plans for SAS as well. 1989 4Runner daily driver, 3.0, 3.5 body lift, 35" MTR's. 10-20=Can,NB,SJ. pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7439309@N02/

04-16-2007, 07:42 AM	#32 (permalink)
Pest Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Westminsterl, CO Posts: 357	Holy crap, that just seems like something you'd see on some comedy skit, with the wheel flying past the vehicle. Just while we're on the same topic, is it possible for the front wheels to pop out like that? Or is that just a rear thing with the pressed in bearings? __________________ -Pest (Nate) 1985 4Runner 278,xxx miles and still young! 2" lift. 32" x 11.50" BFG A/T's on 15" American Racing Wheels. Aussie Locker in the rear Commando Car Alarm with Power Locks and Remote Keyless Entry Rewired power windows to run with ignition off. LCEngineering Header, Magnaflow Muffler, 2.25" Exhaust Rock Crawling puts the FUN in Funeral.

04-16-2007, 07:46 AM	#33 (permalink)
SteveO Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NM Posts: 1,848	The newer Toyotas, Tacos and 4Runners from 95.5 or 96 and up I believe have pressed on bearings on the front. However, I belive they have a captive nut that keeps it all in place. Should you break an axle, I don't think you can remove the shaft, becase the bolt (nut) on the end keeps it all in place. I seem to recall that some guy removed his broken shaft and didn't have a Manual Hub setup, and nearly lost the front wheel. I dunno, somebody else needs to chime in on this one. __________________ http://www.Hunt4Steve.com In the span of time, life is short. Our life is like a wave on the ocean, a flower in the field, here today and gone tomorrow. Know yourself, know where you will spend eternity, for NOTHING else will matter when you die.

04-16-2007, 07:51 AM	#34 (permalink)
mt_goat Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State Posts: 8,920	Wow, that's got to be a shock. The sales guys at the car lot must have thought it was their lucky day, someone finally drove one till the wheels fell off right in front of us, lol. So what's involved with repairing it? Or are you going to a full floater? __________________ ~Dale~ 93 4X4 ext-cab, auto, SR5, 3.4 V6, supercharged, 2.1" pulley, URD fuel mods, Aquamist WI, IPT valve body mod, dual cases, 4" superlift front, Alcan springs rear, 33 BFG MT, ARB locked front & rear, 5.29 US Gears, RB 1" Body Lift, 1.5" ball joint spacers, manual hubs, TJM T-17, Warn m8000.

04-16-2007, 07:56 AM	#35 (permalink)
SteveO Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NM Posts: 1,848	Just my opinion, but I think at this point, giving your tendancies to push the limits of Tippy, you would be better off going to a Full Floater. Brian at FROR can hook you up with the parts you need to make Tippy into a stronger rig. You may be able to using the existing axle tube, and slap Brian's Full Floater kit on. In the long run, you will definitly be ahead of the game. __________________ http://www.Hunt4Steve.com In the span of time, life is short. Our life is like a wave on the ocean, a flower in the field, here today and gone tomorrow. Know yourself, know where you will spend eternity, for NOTHING else will matter when you die.

04-16-2007, 08:31 AM	#36 (permalink)
Marc P Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Santee, CA Posts: 2,736	Wow Molly....Glad you guys are ok. Kinda reminds me of that video in the off topic section of that Regal on 30's going down the dragstrip!! __________________ 1995 4Runner---SAS with goodies

04-16-2007, 09:20 AM	#38 (permalink)
ZUK Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Phx AZ Posts: 539	from the pic below...I don't see the bearing on there. If what I said was correct then the bearing should still be behind the backing plate. __________________ www.gearinstalls.com 2001 white Xtra-cab Taco 3.4L auto TRD 88 Runner/V6/auto/31"/5.29gears ZUK was what my friends in 1990 "tagged' me with when I was building a brand new white 1990 Sami for a magazine cover. The name stuck and I haven't been able to shake it off....not even with antibiotics.

04-16-2007, 09:25 AM	#39 (permalink)
Brenjen Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Searcy, Arkansas Posts: 1,191	All my Dodges are full floating & I swore I would always use them when possible; I didn't know about the lack of a C-clip in these Toyota's....sounds like an engineer over thought the problem. I guess I need to bookmark FROR because I can't deal with problems that could have been avoided ahead of time.....I just start flinging cuss words & tools until I calm down enough to think of a solution. That's why I visit forums like these when I get something I have no experience with; it saves a lot of headaches in the long run. I would have gone nuclear on my 4 runner if I had that happen to me before reading about it here. Sorry about your luck by the way, glad no one was injured. Also; it might not be the previous owners fault, sometimes things just break. __________________ '95 4Runner 3.0 Automatic bone stock; it's becoming a project slowly but surely, one part at a time "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”

04-16-2007, 09:26 AM	#40 (permalink)
SteveO Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NM Posts: 1,848	maybe the 4 bolts that attach the bearing to the houseing failed.......maybe..don't know. edit: either way, I'm real interested to see and hear what the real failure was. Good lesson for us. __________________ http://www.Hunt4Steve.com In the span of time, life is short. Our life is like a wave on the ocean, a flower in the field, here today and gone tomorrow. Know yourself, know where you will spend eternity, for NOTHING else will matter when you die. Last edited by SteveO; 04-16-2007 at 09:27 AM.

04-16-2007, 11:04 AM	#41 (permalink)
drew303 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 2,033	Looks like you need a new rear axle. I broke my two clips getting them off my rear axles but I got new ones from the dealership for like $2. =) If the shop didnt have the right tools or jig to press the bearings on it's easy to not get them on all the way. As for the full-floater conversion. It's expensive. I just went with chromoly rears. Also, you sure you didnt notice ANYTHING odd before the axle came out? With the excess runout on the that rear side you'd of felt pulsation in your brake peddle.. __________________ 1987 Pickup, single cab, 22R, new head, 260 cam TG 3" SAS, rear disc brakes, chromoly rear axles, Chromoly Birfs, Tcase brake, 37x12.50R15 MT/Rs, 5.29 gears, rear Aussie Locker, front Detroit Truetrac.

04-16-2007, 11:14 AM	#44 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,377	There are parts of the bearing still in there. If the axle housing is fubar, and it were to be replaced, even with cromoly axles, this COULD happen again. The ~$1000 to go FF and disc brakes from FROR + the other parts you need to supply seems pretty cheap by comparison. I didn't feel anything terribly unusual, just the rear end dropped down and I looked to the left and saw the tire passing us - it took a while to pass us! __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

04-16-2007, 11:15 AM	#45 (permalink)
SteveO Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NM Posts: 1,848	Does anybody have a pic of this "C-clip" at the end of the axle? I'm curious to see it. __________________ http://www.Hunt4Steve.com In the span of time, life is short. Our life is like a wave on the ocean, a flower in the field, here today and gone tomorrow. Know yourself, know where you will spend eternity, for NOTHING else will matter when you die.

04-16-2007, 11:33 AM	#49 (permalink)
Tdubbs05 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Los Altos, CA (Flagstaff, AZ for college) Posts: 338	now that's a sight to see. good job w/ getting pics up. geez that must have been one hell of a scare. __________________ Tim ___________________________________________ 1994 4Runner \| 3.slow Auto \| 265/75/16 Nitto Terra Grappler's \| Bilsteins \| Downey HD Kit \| ARB Bumper \| Warn M8000 \| 2 Lightforce 170's on the ARB \| Roof Rack w/ Checker HID's \|

04-16-2007, 11:35 AM	#50 (permalink)
drew303 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 2,033	tc, thats the wrong side of the axle. I said theres no clip on the differential end. Could happen again? This is the first time I've heard of it happening on a toyota. No one has said if the wheel-bearing was replaced? It would make a heck of a lot more sense if it'd been tampered with because this happening on a factory job could mean something TOTALLY else. Failure of the bearing? C-clip? Molly said it has a detroit, were the bearings replaced then? The c-clip and bearing have nothing to do with a locker install unless you're servicing the whole axle. __________________ 1987 Pickup, single cab, 22R, new head, 260 cam TG 3" SAS, rear disc brakes, chromoly rear axles, Chromoly Birfs, Tcase brake, 37x12.50R15 MT/Rs, 5.29 gears, rear Aussie Locker, front Detroit Truetrac.

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