shadetreemech

Hello members! I recently overheated and blew a HG on my '94 4Run with 210K miles. Thanks to this wonderful forum, and a Haynes manual, I have been able to remove the heads and expose my block. Wow, what a job to get this far! Especially, since I am doing the job with the motor in vehicle and parked in front of my house on the city street. Anyway, I have a local machine shop that can rebuild the heads for only $250. The gasket set from engnbldr seems very reasonable. However, I am getting some conflicting advice from some local folks who have worked on these engines. One fellow just told me not to have the heads reconditioned beyond inspection and a possible redecking (in other words, no valve job), as the lower half of the engine could not take the renewed top half. What do you all think? Any opinions would be very appreciated. Thanks!

Charchee

That is a question for the ages but I'll give you my two cents as I have thought about it for a couple years now.
1. You MUST get the heads surfaced.
2. If the total on the heads is $250 with surfacing and a valve job. Go for it!
3. Your block is iron and your head is aluminum making this a tricky junction. The surfaces need to be next to perfect for it to hold. If the gasket hadn't been leaking long, the block may be ok but you need to check it out real good.
4. Buy the very best gasket set you can buy. After the gasket blew, your surfaces will never match 100% perfect again. You will have to take every precaution possible to make up for that.

If you are planning on keeping this thing for another 200K, pull the whole engine, surface the block and rebuild everything. If you drive yours 1000 miles a year like I do, just have the heads rebuilt and install good gaskets.

Mine has 212K on it and is running fine but I do plan on keeping the truck forever. I'm sitting here looking at a complete, low mileage 3.4L engine in the floor of my shop, just waiting on my first excuse to stab it in there.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I am not a 3.0 person I tend to agree with Charchee

I feel for you doing this along the street my first work was at least in the yard

robertd33

if you've gone that far & putting that much time & effort in it, rebuild the whole thing.
you've already done all the hard work.

shadetreemech

Thank you, for the input Charchee, wyoming9, and robertd33. I just dropped off the heads at the machine shop. They will clean and inspect, and then let me know if there are any cracks that spell disaster. Before that, however, I was advised to check the piston rods for bending by measuring their position at tdc in relation to the block. If they were not within 75 thousandsths ( I don't know how to write that, let alone measure it) of reaching the top of the block, then a rod might be bent? It could, (the bent rod) however, be tackled from below, they said. I will dig out my feeler gauges and try to figure that out (thank you, internet). My initial impression of the machine shop guys at Terry Cummings' Racing in Bedford, IN, is that I could work there and just be a 'head guy' and life would be great. Why did I go to college and get all of this learnin'?

So, the diagnosis continues. Thank you, for the encouragement!

Charchee

What do you mean, why did I go to college and get all of this learnin? Why can't an educated man work in a machine shop. I have a couple degrees and ended up trading in my three button jacket for one with a zipper and my name on it because that's what made me happy.

On the engine. You obviously have enough time, interest and care for the thing that you want it done right. I like the way you're thinking. I now say, go ahead, pull out what's left of it and rebuild it in your garage. I think you would enjoy it and be proud of what you did. Plus, you are bound to mess something up trying to put it back together out in front of your house.

shadetreemech

Oh, hey, Charchee, sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to myself, jokingly, as having missed my calling. I find that I enjoy turning a wrench, and fixing/building things. I am very envious of the guys working in the machine shop. I was questioning my own college time. Obviously, it didn't make me a very good writer.

I appreciate your suggestion to pull out the rest of the engine. Unfortunately, I am without a garage or back yard. I could carry up the block to my front porch, or inside my house. Is that practical? That thing looks heavy? But, I tell ya, as the weather is about to turn colder here, the thought of working on that lower half indoors sounds like paradise!

So, can a couple of strong guys pull out a block from an engine compartment and heft it up some stairs? What do you think?

Having an engine in my house probably won't win me any points with the ladies. But, when, and if, it all comes back together, I could, at least, take them to a drive-in!

robertd33

at worst:
pull out pistons/rods & crank with the block still mounted, then you could lift the block by yourself with your hands.

install would obviously be the reverse.
a long block build on a stand is optimal, but we sometimes work with what we have available.

shadetreemech

Thanks, robertd33, for the direction. I like the idea of going forward with the disassembly of the block by removing the piston/rods and crank. Following that, is there any kind of logic in honing the piston walls, replacing the pistons, rings, rods, bearings and oil pump while the block is still in vehicle? I'm guessing that one still wouldn't be able to replace the rear main seal, or, would they?

The idea of a long block rebuild in a controlled environment is sounding very appealing. I think that I will start looking into a garage, and engine stand possibilities, as well. I've still got three tows on my AAA (Triple 'A') before the year is out. I guess necessity is truly the mother of invention.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

It is one thing to work at something for Fun another to put in 40 plus hours to pay the bills

Some of us are lucky enough to have jobs we love in my case it took 40 years to find it

When I welded and Fabricated for a living it got to the point it was only for $$$ I didn`t even touch any of my own projects .

The grass always looks better on the other side of the fence till you get to the other side

shadetreemech

I hear you wyoming9. I have mostly done building work the last two decades. I bought a fixer-upper house about six years ago. It had had a fire in it previously. That, and neglected maintenance by the previous owner necessitated a tearing down to the studs. When I bought it, I thought, "Oh great! I can use my skills to bring it back!"

Well, the 'bring back' is no where close to being done. After working on other people's building projects... Well,... just call me the shoe-less cobbler.

Speaking of shoes, or things down low, I was just under my truck and draining the engine oil. From underneath, I could see that it wouldn't be easily possible to remove the oil pan. My truck is 4 wheel drive and all that stuff is right in the way. I guess that I'm going to have to pull the block with a hoist, if I wish to work on it? Those engine mount brackets looked like a good place to place a chain. Does that make sense? I believe that I would still leave the transmission in there.

YoterMeister

I just did a swap into my 95 4runner, bad 3.0 for a rebuilt 3.0. getting the block out is really quite simple i found out since it was my first removal and install. you're over half way there now. good luck on the rest of your build!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

With the heads off It really should not be to bad

I am guessing no extra head bolts

Engine mounts a good a place as any.

At least try and have some help it makes it much easier

robertd33

honing? no... i wouldn't go for that.
if you've got the heads being rebuilt, crank & pistons out, you're only 1 step away from a whole new motor.
take it to a machine shop & have it bored, then put in new pistons & rings.
it would severely suck to have the bottom fail or not perform as well as the new top.

Andy A

Not trying to sidetrack but this brings back some memories. Back in the late 70's early 80's I worked at one of our local hotels that is very close to the Rockingham dragway and the old NASCAR circle track "The Rock". We had 2 NHRA & 2 IHRA events plus 2 NASCAR races each year. Back in those days it was not unusual in the slightest to find puddles of oil in the rooms, dirty rags every, and god knows what else from where the racers would pull there motors at night, haul them into the rooms and work on them😁😁😁😁😁

One winter while living in Utah, mid 70's I blew the motor in my old Chevy. 10 degrees outside, foot and a half of snow on the ground and wind that chilled to the bone. We found an old 327 short and started building it in the basement. It was fairly easy getting the new bare block into the basement and all the miscellaneous pieces. What we did not think about was how we were going to get a fully assembled motor out of a basement where the stairwell was barely one person wide😁😁😁😁😁

Cheers

Charchee

You just missed my point. I'm not offended whatsoever. It was actually a word of encouragement. All I was getting at was that you shouldn't let your education or past experience dictate what you do in the future. I actually know a salesman who bought in to a tiny little machine shop in Camden to keep it from going under. He got involved, streamlined their processes, bought some advanced equipment and used his sales skills to lock down a military contract to machine trigger mechanisms for the Patriot and Sidewinder missiles.. Millions upon millions in revenue and he works in a machine shop.

Like the wise man said, "Do what you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life."

shadetreemech

Alright guys, you've convinced me. I'm going to go for it. Thanks!

YoterMeister, I will try to channel your pulling and placing success.

Wyoming9, and robertd33, thank you for the advice.

Great stories, Andy A. You could be on the Moth Radio Hour!

Charchee, you are going to be my new career counselor. I like the notion that it is never too late to follow one's passion.

OK, time to start looking for a hoist and engine stand. Here I come Craig's

shadetreemech

...list!

coryc85

shadetree - I have no real advice beyond the Toyota and life wisdom that has already been posted, but maybe update your profile to indicate where in the country you are located just in case you need a hand or a tool and somebody is close by. Sounds like you are off to a great start.