acousticrawk

anyone folling any of the stuff ive done to my 4runner knows what kind of TERRIBLE rats nest the PO made of the wiring. when i bought the truck, it either idled like crap and died, or it would idle somewhat high... now that i have rewired it CORRECTLY (including the fuel pump which onyl worked intermittently), the crappy idle is gone. when it was wired poorly, i also had a TPS and o2 codes... i cleared the codes while rewiring (battery was disconnected overnight several times) and now the truck runs better than it did, but my gas mileage is CRAP (im guessing around 160miles a tank stock gears, 5 speed and 31's inflated hard as a rock... not literally, but they are blown up well)

my issue now is my idle is about 1600-1900 RPMS. i havent had another check ingine light... but i will say my problem of only making power at about 3l rpms still exists, just not as bad... it doesnt stumble below 3k like it did but it def has a "power band" you can feel mildy during acceleration. before i had to work the throttle to get the 3k rpms, now it gets there okay then there is a noticeable gain in power.

ive checked 99% of the vacuum lines and lubed the dashpot (which isnt sticking) i am going to make sure the idle adjustment screw is adjusted right tomorrow. and before anyone says tune up or something... its ALL been done... fuel filter included.

is there anything else i should check? could it still be the bad 02 sensor and TPS effecting drive-ability but not throwing the codes like before?

thanks!!!

acousticrawk

anyone??

socal_style

Have you checked your vacuum lines? Injectors? Valves? Timing?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Acoustic,

I've not had a really high idle like yourself, but a bit high, and also;

When I'd go to take off, it would just not have much guts, ....at some points it would just be gutless off the line, then suddenly, around 3000 RPM, ...BAT OUT OF HELL, totally responsive from there on.

My problem at the time was indeed the TPS. I had adjusted it properly, I thought...but I had not read properly the portion where it said, "Set the Idle Stop Screw Properly before any TPS adjustments." After cleaning my throttle body, before messing with the TPS, the clearance of the screw changed because the flap was closing nearly all the way(Maybe due to minor play developed over 24 years, on top of cleaning a crap load of carbon away from the throttle plate? Who knows exactly) After adjusting it, it was better, but I still had 'random power band' issues. I replaced the TPS, adjusted it, and most of my issues were gone.

I also had IACV issues, which were not only causing me to not idle up when cold....but the arm in there, I believe, was not fully closing, ever, so the Closed Loop System of sensors couldn't ever deal with things properly, ....because it was getting un-metered air maybe? I replaced the IACV and it thereafter idled up and much of the "sticky throttle syndrome" went away.

I also was having issues, initially, before I even rebuilt, because my 02 was bad. So, replaced it with a Bosch.... it just never read things properly, thus, I would get some really strange random "bat out of hell" action while trying to take off. Went with a Denso and that solved most of it, but as I stated....my bad TPS would not let it run right.

I would go through the Fuel Chapter in the haynes or FSM and start multi-meter testing the related sensors. I'm not sure if the Coolant Temp Sensor can cause a high idle, ...but mine being bad was DEFINITELY causing me some issues.(just really tired and I can't remember right now... which also leads me to say "SORRY" for the erratic post, lol......) > I've subscribed, so I'll check in tomorrow after reading back through my thread a lil. the build is in my sig, so if you want, you can skim through to some of my problems, solutions, etc., and maybe you'll come across it before me, but I did have a very similar problem. Might be some about it in my troubleshooting thread, as well. I think that was more to do with a really bad miss, which ended up being my cam, ...which was just toast(my machinist/builder put it back in after the rebuilt with a bad grind or something,....cuz it SCARED most machinists who looked at it! lol).

I"M VERY interested, as I had many of the same issues as you're mentioning...and now, even with a brand newly rebuilt 22re, bored over, new Crank, new CAM, header, Cold Air Intake, almost every new sensor you could get, ...... I've still got REALLY PRETTY SAD MILEAGE! Not quite 160 Miles(on 14 Gallons or so, right?)... but maybe 180 at it's worst and 230 at it's best? Even at 230, that's pushing 15.5.....totally grandma'ing the skinny pedal.... and that just can't be right.

Any better on the highway for ya?

Test your;

*Coolant Temp Sensor

*TPS according to 4crawler.com site(just google "4crawler, tps"... Maybe for the AFM too?)

*IACV

*Basic tests of Fuel Pressure Regulator(if it's not working, you'll get no resistance to the fuel pressure to the rail).

* and yes, definitely put your Idle Air Screw on the Throttle body all the way in and then turn out 2.5 full turns, see how it runs, then turn it out til 750RPM, ya know?

See ya 2mrw, Acoustic, ..hang in there, ....TRUST ME, I've earned the right to say that, hahaha. But I also know it SUCKS! lol.

L8r,

Mark

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

PS> I'm sure I don't have to tell you this..... but don't throw parts at it, ya know? Just don't want you to think that I'm suggesting you start replacing the things I've mentioned... Like I said, you probably know that, but just to be sure, as people CAN tend to do that on here, ya know? (Don't ask me how I know, hahaha)

acousticrawk

thanks for an extensive response! its so cold here, but im headed to the parts store today... im going to pick all the part up (order them) and test and replace them one by one. whatever i dont need or dont just replace because its old, ill just return!def going to replace the o2 and tps either way because they are both throwing codes.

need to replace a couple relays too. last night i had a crank no start for about 30 seconds.... then it would crank... i cycled the key probably 4 or 5 times trying to get it to crank, then it started right up! weeeeird....

ill be checking all that stuff!! thanks mark! ill def be keeping this updated as i work.

SpecialScottie

I had a similar problem with my 85, I changed the TPS and O2 sensor and it made a huge difference

acousticrawk

just for shats and gaggles i messed with the idle screw and got the idle down to about 900-1k rpms. dont know if itll start cold or not yet, because i made the adjustment warm. haha. and its probably not in the proper adjustment setting... but it is idling lower now. i will def be replacing the o2 and TPS.

im having an intermittent start issue too. seems like first try, it will crank but wont start... then after a few trys itll start right up (if it doesnt run the battery dead)...

is there a fuel pump or ignition relay? seems like a relay to me.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

It's not always 'weird', Acoustic,....it can actually make perfect sense.

1. When hard starting, SOMETHING is going wrong... maybe>>>
.....a. Fuel Pump is starting to struggle or the lines to/from are clogged, etc.
.....b. Fuel Filter
.....c. Cold start Injector or Cold Start Injector Time Switch
.....d. (NOT SURE ON THIS ONE)... AFM(I say this because I've had some weird experiences with one before this donor I'm using now. It would run better warm than cold with that one...and when cold, when idling, it would want to stay HIGH on the idle, like 1100RPM........WHICH then causes the idle to go up and down from 1100 - 750rpm because of the 'brake-fuel stop' sensor.... "When idle is over 1000RPM, and you apply the brakes, the ECU will shut off the fuel to the injectors for a moment, forcing them back to no more than idle speed-750rpm, ....then it bounces up and down to those points until you adjust/fix your idle issue.
.....e. C.O.R.(Circuit Open Relay).... usually, this just goes out, but it's definitely caused people some trouble starting, as it has to open to allow the fuel pump to engage.... They have OFTEN corroded, like mine did, due to a leaking windshield.

Since you're planning on replacing this stuff as you go...(I would just test it first, because you want to keep the TOYOTA GENUINE SENSORS, IF YOU CAN! Trust me on this, Acoustic. I understand you might not have much time, or it's really cold when you work on it, so you wanna just rule it out for sure, maybe? Problem is, you'll have to be out in the cold working on it anyway, just to replace things....and then might wind up finding out that you have a short or some corrosion in the wiring harness, ya know?

Either way you go, i'll read back and see whatcha got, .....BEST WISHES, and hope you pin it down quick.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

^^^ Your "fuel pump relay" is actually the C.O.R.^^^.... best as I understand how all that works, lol. They can go out, and I actually just posted this somewhere, .......anyway, "When I was having an issue, where the truck wouldn't start when really warmed up(you've have to let it sit for a while).... The problem WAS the C.O.R"..... But it's NOT ALWAYS the root cause of the issue you are/I was experiencing... Sounds like you're having more trouble starting when COLD< right?

I would think this would be more like some that I mentioned, and maybe even REALLY nastily clogged injectors, cold start injector, cold start injector time switch is screwy,..Maybe something like that...but tell me, does it do that when EITHER way, cold or hot? (hard start), ..or is this something brand new?

acousticrawk

just ordered TPS and o2 sensors.... should be here early next week.... until then... i need to figure out this intermittent start issue... any suggestions? (see above for details)

edit* didnt see your posts chef!

at any rate... it isnt the fuel pump or injectors. the pump is fairly new and tests out perfect. as for cold start or cold start time... quite possible!!! i need to test those... i know where the cold start injector is but not the time switch... where is the C.O.R.??? i have never heard of that little bugger.

i say it has to be electrical because of the symptoms... more o, sometimes i turn the key and the starter wont kick on for a second or so.... sometimes... its all intermittent. and it cranks fine, but the fuel pump isnt whirling... after a couple tries twisting the key back and fourth, it fires right up issue free. if it where a clogged injector or something it would show more symptoms. fuel filter is brand new and so is a lot of the fuel line.

i think i have a draw somewhere too. or my battery is shot... i dont get much crank time out of it before it goes dead and today it was really low to begin with. my clutch start switch was ALWAYS on until today too. it finally shut itself off. i think i my bypass the clutch safety switch. ive had sever jeeps and diesel trucks that where without them, and had no problems.

the start symptoms occur cold for sure... and in the parking lot after sitting 2 minutes at the gas station it acted liek it wanted to act up, but it starts okay.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Try what I said earlier, (Think I did, getting old, forgot...... wait, what happened now? ) hahaha, jk... No, really, pull the AFM from the air box so you can reach in there and push the flap open(DONT put your fingers on the 'cone sensor' in there). You SHOULD hear the Fuel pump engage the second you do that. There are also great tests for everything at 4crawler.com. Just type into Google , "4crawler, tps" or "4crawler, AFM" "coolant temp sensor", etc., and it will lead you to his 'cheap tricks' pages... the guy is quite the guru! Might even find him on here and send him a Private message, see if he has time to stop by and help ya out?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

PS> The C.O.R. is above the ECU behind the glove box area(to the right though, right above the ECU).

You have a book of some kind, right? The haynes chapter on this would be chapter 4. (In the beginning, it lists all the sensors, components that control things.) Also, in the troubleshooting section of the book, look for "hard start when cold/hot" portion. See what it says, ...never know.

acousticrawk

hey! yeah im pretty familiar with the 4crawler site. is there any way to fix the afm if thats the problem? or just replace it?? that dude is $pendy!

i have the FSM... its kind of a PITA pdf doc that i can take out with me to the truck and its about 1500 pages to print

sorry if i become slower to reply... work will not have stopped... our ISP is going through a "transition" and out internet is becoming spotty.

abigjohnson01@yahoo.

I just bought the LC enginering 22re street performer. Made by ATK. I have LC header to 2 inch pipe to glasspack. I got a throttle body spacer from them too. New jets as well. I am having an issue where some times its so sluggish, and other times it runs fast.. I also have the idle issue where it will idle ruff. At a loss as to why the difference

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey man, ....not sure what happened, I KNOW I responded back..... hmmm, stupid pumputers! lol.

Anyway, yeah, 4crawler rocks! Far as the 'fixing the AFM'... yeah, that's pretty highly discouraged by MOST Guru's. I know that some tweak them according to thousands of feet in new higher/lower elevations, etc. But it's VERY TOUCHY(as well as very pricey, as you said, hahaha) If YOU ARE CERTAIN it's bad(only time I'd recommend getting a 'new or donor' one), then you can find them on here, ebay, even Napa has newly reman'd ones.

I hope you get it all snugged up and toight like a toiger, soon enough, Acoustic! lol.

acousticrawk

got everything done today... ITS WORSE!!!

check here (started a new thread to hopefully get a few opinions):
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post51696205

acousticrawk

see link!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

"BUMP CALL" FOR A FEW EFI GURU'S to lend Acoustic a hand on this thread.....

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post51696205

I'm heading out of town, .......and I'm not a guru, but that's besides the point! hahaha.

acousticrawk

thanks chef! got her taken care of today. as youll see in the other thread... just had to REALLY fiddle with the tps to get in into spec. see the other thread for the details.

still have a bit of a cold start issue... cold start time switch/injector probably??? its a bit of nipper today, and the truck started right up after i fixed the tps, but after a while i went out to head to the coffee shop for internet (mines fixed tomorrow) it was a little hard to start. the temp gauge was still reading that it was warm too.. its an intermittent issue.