Rear window relay fix- 1990 4Runner - Page 3

Matt16 · 10-27-2008, 02:55 PM

Bump, I need an answer. I don't want to buy a new motor just to find out thats isn't the problem.

Are they're any fuseable links in the system?

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Hophead · 10-27-2008, 04:05 PM

HEy Matt - the only advice I can give you is that I think the problem is not with VOLTAGE rather its AMPERAGE. AS the motor gets older its current draw increases - I would think that the factory circuit can only supply a limited amount of current. As the window nears the top of the run it is asking the most work form the motro which in turn is looking for more current which teh factory circuit can not supply. Hence it works fine jumped straight from the battery. My reasoning is based on my expirence with my fuel pump- it would not run through the factory circuits but run fine when jumped straight from the battery. I replaced the pump and the new one runs fine through the factory circuit.

I am by no means an electrical guru ( FAR friom it)

Have you tried removing the motor and having a look inside - mine was rusty and obviously not in the best shape. I cleaned it up and reinstalled it - so far no problems...

Hope this helps.

Matt16 · 10-27-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hophead

HEy Matt - the only advice I can give you is that I think the problem is not with VOLTAGE rather its AMPERAGE. AS the motor gets older its current draw increases - I would think that the factory circuit can only supply a limited amount of current. As the window nears the top of the run it is asking the most work form the motro which in turn is looking for more current which teh factory circuit can not supply. Hence it works fine jumped straight from the battery. My reasoning is based on my expirence with my fuel pump- it would not run through the factory circuits but run fine when jumped straight from the battery. I replaced the pump and the new one runs fine through the factory circuit.

I am by no means an electrical guru ( FAR friom it)

Have you tried removing the motor and having a look inside - mine was rusty and obviously not in the best shape. I cleaned it up and reinstalled it - so far no problems...

Hope this helps.

Hmm. Interesting, I didn't know it could draw more amperage as it wore down.

As a side note, what actually wears out in an electric motor???

My runners are kind of rusty, but well greased now. I didn't think you could buy new runners though. The gears for the scissor mechanism look fine.

Hophead · 10-27-2008, 06:47 PM

When I took my motor apart I found that there had deffenitely been water or moisture inside the motor - the bearing/bushings inside were pitted and rusty. I cleaned and sanded smooth all the bearing/bushing surfaces and lube it up with dialectric grease. I also cleaned and shined up any electrical point/contacts. Not saying this will be the answer but worth a shot.
ASfor motors requiring more current draw- you can imagine if all the bearings are rough and it is hard to turn the "thingy'" (STATOR??) around in the feild it will requre more current . Very technical description I know!

Might just need a new motor. It would be nice to measure the current draw at the motor and compare it to a new/ working motor.

Matt16 · 10-27-2008, 07:31 PM

Lubed up the runners, this time with silicone spray (as opposed to grease) and WOW, it moves. Doesn't even slow down near the top.

Maybe I'll pull out the motor sometime and have a look at the bushings. Anyone know if they're rebuildible (the motors that is)?

Hophead · 10-27-2008, 07:42 PM

Nice! I always use silcone spray on the window tracks. When I used white lithuim grease it just seemed like a magnet for crap. Glad that worked

out for ya.

Matt16 · 10-27-2008, 07:53 PM

I got some weird looks from the girl at one of the shops I visited when I asked about silicone lube. Apparently, there are multiple types of silicone lube.

This is what you want:

This isn't:

90 · 02-04-2009, 06:12 PM

Thanks for the writeup! Main Electronics had the same relay in stock ( I live in Vancouver ) and I had my first ever desolder/solder job under my belt, along with a gate window that responds! woot

Matt16 · 02-04-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90

Thanks for the writeup! Main Electronics had the same relay in stock ( I live in Vancouver ) and I had my first ever desolder/solder job under my belt, along with a gate window that responds! woot

I think that very well may be the same store I bought mine from. I'm in N Van. Glad it worked.

marshm4ll0w · 02-08-2009, 02:37 PM

well i dont know if youve looked at a wiring diagram for the back window. I found out that on it there is a power window limit switch. i looked at a wiring diagram to find out the other realys on the circuit board for but nothing yet, but look at the circuit, according to diagram in the right side bottom part if you look up a bit youll see a power window limit switch. that may be what causes your window to go up so fast when you go direct with battery. heres a link at the bottom you may have to copy paste it. and youll have to zoom in to make it more clearer.

http://www.ondemand5.com/mric/common...&COURTESYTAG=&

Matt16 · 02-08-2009, 03:52 PM

I'm only getting a white blank page when I open that link. What do you think the purpose of the power limiting switch is? Think I could/ should I bypass it?

marshm4ll0w · 02-08-2009, 04:46 PM

you could bypass it probally, although it may be just incase the motor gets to much power. like a fuse kinda idea, its probally like an inline reisistor id guess, or similar idea. personally id just leave it alone and keep it wired in, providing your window actually works. its not like it has to go up speedy fast as long as it goes all the way up and down id say id be happy, mine doesnt work at all. i played aorund with the box and it started to half work which was good news for me. that link works for me though, im not sure why it doesnt work for you. have you tried to zoom in? like at the top theres a toolbar and you can click the magnifying glass a few times and it all comes in clear.

marshm4ll0w · 02-08-2009, 04:50 PM

oh and you said you got it form vancouver? i live in mission, and was wondering what the store was called id like to call and maybe go and pick some up, everywhere iv looked so far has no idea what im looking for. im gonna try this other guy he does auto electrical i was told he would be good to get in touch with.

so i went down to radio shack which is now the source/ circuit city and asked for a relay and the lady was like whats a relay. and i thought to myself no one has any idea what things are anymore.

Matt16 · 02-08-2009, 06:24 PM

http://www.mainelectronics.com/

marshm4ll0w · 02-08-2009, 09:04 PM

right on thanks. im taking out the 2 realys right now. was earlier. its actually harder than i thought it would be. iv taking the solder off of the 5 pins on one
but i cant seem to get it off the board still. is there a trick to getting it off? maybe i neeed to take more solder off.

marshm4ll0w · 02-08-2009, 09:46 PM

nevermind i got them now. thanks for the thread.

Matt16 · 02-08-2009, 09:52 PM

A solder sucker works well, its basically a spring loaded syringe that you "fire" when the solder is still hot.

JohnRaven · 03-09-2009, 11:40 AM

QUESTION:

Here's the situation...

My rear window went down about an inch all by itself yesterday.

I took the back panel off to jump the motor to close the window.

I just took the relay box out, however... Before I start replacing relays, how do I KNOW they are bad??? Is there something else that COULD be causing the problem?

JohnRaven · 03-10-2009, 09:54 AM

Bueller, bueller?

JohnRaven · 03-13-2009, 10:47 AM

Anyone?

Matt16 · 03-13-2009, 02:05 PM

Replace all relays

JohnRaven · 03-14-2009, 05:16 PM

Are they all the same??? Can they all be replaced by the same relay? IE this one?

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=255-2080-ND

Matt16 · 03-14-2009, 05:25 PM

They are all the same relay.

JohnRaven · 03-14-2009, 05:44 PM

Thank you!!!

10-27-2008, 04:05 PM	#52 (permalink)
Hophead Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Vancouver BC Posts: 98	HEy Matt - the only advice I can give you is that I think the problem is not with VOLTAGE rather its AMPERAGE. AS the motor gets older its current draw increases - I would think that the factory circuit can only supply a limited amount of current. As the window nears the top of the run it is asking the most work form the motro which in turn is looking for more current which teh factory circuit can not supply. Hence it works fine jumped straight from the battery. My reasoning is based on my expirence with my fuel pump- it would not run through the factory circuits but run fine when jumped straight from the battery. I replaced the pump and the new one runs fine through the factory circuit. I am by no means an electrical guru ( FAR friom it) Have you tried removing the motor and having a look inside - mine was rusty and obviously not in the best shape. I cleaned it up and reinstalled it - so far no problems... Hope this helps. __________________ 1992 4Runner - 3.4 Swapped, stuff.

10-27-2008, 06:47 PM	#54 (permalink)
Hophead Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Vancouver BC Posts: 98	When I took my motor apart I found that there had deffenitely been water or moisture inside the motor - the bearing/bushings inside were pitted and rusty. I cleaned and sanded smooth all the bearing/bushing surfaces and lube it up with dialectric grease. I also cleaned and shined up any electrical point/contacts. Not saying this will be the answer but worth a shot. ASfor motors requiring more current draw- you can imagine if all the bearings are rough and it is hard to turn the "thingy'" (STATOR??) around in the feild it will requre more current . Very technical description I know! Might just need a new motor. It would be nice to measure the current draw at the motor and compare it to a new/ working motor. __________________ 1992 4Runner - 3.4 Swapped, stuff.

10-27-2008, 07:42 PM	#56 (permalink)
Hophead Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Vancouver BC Posts: 98	Nice! I always use silcone spray on the window tracks. When I used white lithuim grease it just seemed like a magnet for crap. Glad that worked out for ya. __________________ 1992 4Runner - 3.4 Swapped, stuff.

02-04-2009, 06:12 PM	#58 (permalink)
90 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Vanc BC CAN Posts: 58	Thanks for the writeup! Main Electronics had the same relay in stock ( I live in Vancouver ) and I had my first ever desolder/solder job under my belt, along with a gate window that responds! woot __________________ "Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting over."- Mark Twain

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02-08-2009, 02:37 PM	#60 (permalink)
marshm4ll0w Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: British Coumbia Posts: 48	well i dont know if youve looked at a wiring diagram for the back window. I found out that on it there is a power window limit switch. i looked at a wiring diagram to find out the other realys on the circuit board for but nothing yet, but look at the circuit, according to diagram in the right side bottom part if you look up a bit youll see a power window limit switch. that may be what causes your window to go up so fast when you go direct with battery. heres a link at the bottom you may have to copy paste it. and youll have to zoom in to make it more clearer. http://www.ondemand5.com/mric/common...&COURTESYTAG=&

02-08-2009, 04:46 PM	#62 (permalink)
marshm4ll0w Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: British Coumbia Posts: 48	you could bypass it probally, although it may be just incase the motor gets to much power. like a fuse kinda idea, its probally like an inline reisistor id guess, or similar idea. personally id just leave it alone and keep it wired in, providing your window actually works. its not like it has to go up speedy fast as long as it goes all the way up and down id say id be happy, mine doesnt work at all. i played aorund with the box and it started to half work which was good news for me. that link works for me though, im not sure why it doesnt work for you. have you tried to zoom in? like at the top theres a toolbar and you can click the magnifying glass a few times and it all comes in clear.

02-08-2009, 04:50 PM	#63 (permalink)
marshm4ll0w Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: British Coumbia Posts: 48	oh and you said you got it form vancouver? i live in mission, and was wondering what the store was called id like to call and maybe go and pick some up, everywhere iv looked so far has no idea what im looking for. im gonna try this other guy he does auto electrical i was told he would be good to get in touch with. so i went down to radio shack which is now the source/ circuit city and asked for a relay and the lady was like whats a relay. and i thought to myself no one has any idea what things are anymore.

02-08-2009, 09:04 PM	#65 (permalink)
marshm4ll0w Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: British Coumbia Posts: 48	right on thanks. im taking out the 2 realys right now. was earlier. its actually harder than i thought it would be. iv taking the solder off of the 5 pins on one but i cant seem to get it off the board still. is there a trick to getting it off? maybe i neeed to take more solder off.

02-08-2009, 09:46 PM	#66 (permalink)
marshm4ll0w Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: British Coumbia Posts: 48	nevermind i got them now. thanks for the thread.

03-09-2009, 11:40 AM	#68 (permalink)
JohnRaven Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 248	QUESTION: Here's the situation... My rear window went down about an inch all by itself yesterday. I took the back panel off to jump the motor to close the window. I just took the relay box out, however... Before I start replacing relays, how do I KNOW they are bad??? Is there something else that COULD be causing the problem?

03-10-2009, 09:54 AM	#69 (permalink)
JohnRaven Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 248	Bueller, bueller?

03-13-2009, 10:47 AM	#70 (permalink)
JohnRaven Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 248	Anyone?

03-14-2009, 05:16 PM	#72 (permalink)
JohnRaven Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 248	Are they all the same??? Can they all be replaced by the same relay? IE this one? http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=255-2080-ND

03-14-2009, 05:44 PM	#74 (permalink)
JohnRaven Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 248	Thank you!!!

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