Rear mount turbo 3vze finished
06-09-2014, 01:05 PM
#22
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Good question. And I'm not sure I know the answer. This subject isn't something I have any personal experience with. So before I potentially steer you further off track, I'll just let you take what I've said and apply some more to it. Then you'll have to make your decision based on that. The only thing I feel like I do know for sure at this point is, what you've done definitely isn't the "best" way to do it. And, if I'm not too far off base, what I've suggested would probably be "better". At least in some ways. Minimally it would fix the vacuum leak/unmetered air intrusion you've created. Unless there's a breather on the other side too.
http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_pdf/PCVBypass.pdf
In doing some quick research on the web, the "best" idea I came across was to install an electric pump to make sure blowby is being pulled out of the crankcase at all times, or at times when the PCV system isn't sufficient(like when boost is enough to cancel out the pressure exerted by the blowby causing it to not function at all). Which is probably the way I'd go. Because it sounds like the safest. Blowby is bad for the engine's internals(not just for the environment, which actually doesn't concern me in the least). It just needs to get out of the crankcase as quickly and efficiently as possible IMO. The rest is relatively unimportant(to me).
http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_pdf/PCVBypass.pdf
In doing some quick research on the web, the "best" idea I came across was to install an electric pump to make sure blowby is being pulled out of the crankcase at all times, or at times when the PCV system isn't sufficient(like when boost is enough to cancel out the pressure exerted by the blowby causing it to not function at all). Which is probably the way I'd go. Because it sounds like the safest. Blowby is bad for the engine's internals(not just for the environment, which actually doesn't concern me in the least). It just needs to get out of the crankcase as quickly and efficiently as possible IMO. The rest is relatively unimportant(to me).
After 89 and up they went to High impedance injectors correct? I was looking at the 340cc supra injectrs as a upgrade or the larger flame thrower
Injector. And a walbro 190lph or a ken bell BAP (boost a pump).
06-09-2014, 01:07 PM
#23
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CT26 Turbo internal wastegate
Inovate MTX-L wide band O2
Nwor long tube headers home made Y pipe
Saab 7th injector
2" charge pipe
3vzfe (larger vafm)
Aftermarket gauges
Random parts. For everything
Nonrelated Turbo stuff
Zuk mod
Taurus fand mod
140 amp upgrade altenator (cs144)
Bj spacers
3" body lift
4.88 gears
34.5 goodyear duratrac
Last edited by Turbopickup24; 06-09-2014 at 01:20 PM.
06-09-2014, 02:46 PM
#24
One more thing people often fail to realize about the PCV system is that it can limit blowby to a certain extent(contrary to what seems to be suggested in that article). By helping piston rings to seal better. Think of it as producing a small amount of vacuum in the crankcase as fresh air is drawn through it. That vacuum then wants to suck the piston rings off the pistons, forcing them against the cylinder walls. So that's another good reason to keep the system as functional as possible. Good sealing rings is always a good thing(for reasons besides that too, better compression, less oil burned, less potential wear to the pistons and cylinder walls, and such).
On the injectors, yeah. 89 and later. I wouldn't know which to go with though. One of the flamethrower colors is higher flow, can't recall which at the moment(I wanna say I heard the orange were, not 100% on it).
I'm sort of surprised that 3VZ-FE VAFM worked. Or was in not plug-and-play? As in did you have to make it work? I heard they wouldn't work for electrical incompatiblity reasons.
On the injectors, yeah. 89 and later. I wouldn't know which to go with though. One of the flamethrower colors is higher flow, can't recall which at the moment(I wanna say I heard the orange were, not 100% on it).
I'm sort of surprised that 3VZ-FE VAFM worked. Or was in not plug-and-play? As in did you have to make it work? I heard they wouldn't work for electrical incompatiblity reasons.
Last edited by MudHippy; 06-09-2014 at 02:52 PM.
06-09-2014, 04:27 PM
#25
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One more thing people often fail to realize about the PCV system is that it can limit blowby to a certain extent(contrary to what seems to be suggested in that article). By helping piston rings to seal better. Think of it as producing a small amount of vacuum in the crankcase as fresh air is drawn through it. That vacuum then wants to suck the piston rings off the pistons, forcing them against the cylinder walls. So that's another good reason to keep the system as functional as possible. Good sealing rings is always a good thing(for reasons besides that too, better compression, less oil burned, less potential wear to the pistons and cylinder walls, and such).
On the injectors, yeah. 89 and later. I wouldn't know which to go with though. One of the flamethrower colors is higher flow, can't recall which at the moment(I wanna say I heard the orange were, not 100% on it).
I'm sort of surprised that 3VZ-FE VAFM worked. Or was in not plug-and-play? As in did you have to make it work? I heard they wouldn't work for electrical incompatiblity reasons.
On the injectors, yeah. 89 and later. I wouldn't know which to go with though. One of the flamethrower colors is higher flow, can't recall which at the moment(I wanna say I heard the orange were, not 100% on it).
I'm sort of surprised that 3VZ-FE VAFM worked. Or was in not plug-and-play? As in did you have to make it work? I heard they wouldn't work for electrical incompatiblity reasons.
06-09-2014, 09:01 PM
#26
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The greys have higher flow (Flamethrower).
You can run a second PCV to the breather, Turn it backwards so that Pressure from the crankcase can be drawn and close during pressure build.
The PCV under the intake manifold should already be set the same way.
Loose the AFM a little more or test try the stock one again.
What is your fuel pressure?
I hope more of the 3VZT owners chime in on this as I have been diagramming my 92EC for the same thing.
You can run a second PCV to the breather, Turn it backwards so that Pressure from the crankcase can be drawn and close during pressure build.
The PCV under the intake manifold should already be set the same way.
Loose the AFM a little more or test try the stock one again.
What is your fuel pressure?
I hope more of the 3VZT owners chime in on this as I have been diagramming my 92EC for the same thing.
06-09-2014, 09:26 PM
#27
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The greys have higher flow (Flamethrower).
You can run a second PCV to the breather, Turn it backwards so that Pressure from the crankcase can be drawn and close during pressure build.
The PCV under the intake manifold should already be set the same way.
Loose the AFM a little more or test try the stock one again.
What is your fuel pressure?
I hope more of the 3VZT owners chime in on this as I have been diagramming my 92EC for the same thing.
You can run a second PCV to the breather, Turn it backwards so that Pressure from the crankcase can be drawn and close during pressure build.
The PCV under the intake manifold should already be set the same way.
Loose the AFM a little more or test try the stock one again.
What is your fuel pressure?
I hope more of the 3VZT owners chime in on this as I have been diagramming my 92EC for the same thing.
06-10-2014, 10:04 AM
#28
Like there's what? More than half a dozen of them...if that? Most of whom aren't frequent posters on this site(if ever). It's pretty well uncharted territory still at this point anyway. Meaning, who knows who's done it "right" yet?
Sure, you can. But it makes no sense whatsoever to do so. Because if that one closes from boost pressure, which it won't(since boost would try to force it open, and vacuum would try to force it closed), then you'd still have pressure building up in the crankcase from the blowby(since the other, correctly orientated valve, would be forced closed by boost). It(the vent side) can't be closed at any time. If one end of the system is closed, the entire system is closed. If the entire system is closed, you're going to have issues(in one form or another, if the engine is running). Not to mention(though I just did) that a PCV valve can't work if it's installed backwards. So you'd have a half functioning system all the time, at best, if you did that. In reality though, you'd more than likely have a PCV system that didn't function at all, at any time. Since the 2 valves would be working against each other, not with each other. One being opened by vacuum, and the other being closed by vacuum. So that's a worse idea than bypassing the PCV system altogether. It doesn't solve anything, it only makes things worse. There needs to be a valve on one side and a vent on the other for it to function correctly. Or no valves and just vents for it to function somewhat correctly. Though without a valve and a vent, or a way for the blowby to be drawn out of the crankcase, it can't be considered a Positive Crankcase Ventilation system at all. It would then just be a CV system. And that's a big difference.
Again, from the previously linked article:
Again, from the previously linked article:
The problem is, with the one-way valve installed, there is no path to vent the blowby, which is going
to pressurize the crankcase since there can now be no path to relieve the positive pressure except around
seals and gaskets, which will cause them to leak. Also, remember that positive cranckase pressure also
hurts performance.
to pressurize the crankcase since there can now be no path to relieve the positive pressure except around
seals and gaskets, which will cause them to leak. Also, remember that positive cranckase pressure also
hurts performance.
Last edited by MudHippy; 06-10-2014 at 10:14 AM.
06-10-2014, 11:06 AM
#29
If you didn't have a rear-mounted turbo I'd say to run a tube (with a checkvalve in it) into the exhaust with an approximately 30* diagonal cut facing rearward. The exhaust pulses will pull a vacuum through the tube at anything over idle and the checkvalve will keep exhaust out of your PCV system at idle.
But that's a lot of piping in your case since you want to run that behind your turbo.
I'd recommend instead that you keep a pcv checkvalve, but continue to vent it to the atmosphere. The worst thing that'll happen is a potentially stinky hot-oil smell from the vented pcv. You can run some rubber tubing back to the rear of the truck to diminish that if you'd like. Or keep the breather with a checkvalve. It won't hurt anything.
But that's a lot of piping in your case since you want to run that behind your turbo.
I'd recommend instead that you keep a pcv checkvalve, but continue to vent it to the atmosphere. The worst thing that'll happen is a potentially stinky hot-oil smell from the vented pcv. You can run some rubber tubing back to the rear of the truck to diminish that if you'd like. Or keep the breather with a checkvalve. It won't hurt anything.
06-10-2014, 11:12 AM
#30
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Like there's what? More than half a dozen of them...if that? Most of whom aren't frequent posters on this site(if ever). It's pretty well uncharted territory still at this point anyway. Meaning, who knows who's done it "right" yet?
Sure, you can. But it makes no sense whatsoever to do so. Because if that one closes from boost pressure, which it won't(since boost would try to force it open, and vacuum would try to force it closed), then you'd still have pressure building up in the crankcase from the blowby(since the other, correctly orientated valve, would be forced closed by boost). It(the vent side) can't be closed at any time. If one end of the system is closed, the entire system is closed. If the entire system is closed, you're going to have issues(in one form or another, if the engine is running). Not to mention(though I just did) that a PCV valve can't work if it's installed backwards. So you'd have a half functioning system all the time, at best, if you did that. In reality though, you'd more than likely have a PCV system that didn't function at all, at any time. Since the 2 valves would be working against each other, not with each other. One being opened by vacuum, and the other being closed by vacuum. So that's a worse idea than bypassing the PCV system altogether. It doesn't solve anything, it only makes things worse. There needs to be a valve on one side and a vent on the other for it to function correctly. Or no valves and just vents for it to function somewhat correctly. Though without a valve and a vent, or a way for the blowby to be drawn out of the crankcase, it can't be considered a Positive Crankcase Ventilation system at all. It would then just be a CV system. And that's a big difference.
Again, from the previously linked article:
Sure, you can. But it makes no sense whatsoever to do so. Because if that one closes from boost pressure, which it won't(since boost would try to force it open, and vacuum would try to force it closed), then you'd still have pressure building up in the crankcase from the blowby(since the other, correctly orientated valve, would be forced closed by boost). It(the vent side) can't be closed at any time. If one end of the system is closed, the entire system is closed. If the entire system is closed, you're going to have issues(in one form or another, if the engine is running). Not to mention(though I just did) that a PCV valve can't work if it's installed backwards. So you'd have a half functioning system all the time, at best, if you did that. In reality though, you'd more than likely have a PCV system that didn't function at all, at any time. Since the 2 valves would be working against each other, not with each other. One being opened by vacuum, and the other being closed by vacuum. So that's a worse idea than bypassing the PCV system altogether. It doesn't solve anything, it only makes things worse. There needs to be a valve on one side and a vent on the other for it to function correctly. Or no valves and just vents for it to function somewhat correctly. Though without a valve and a vent, or a way for the blowby to be drawn out of the crankcase, it can't be considered a Positive Crankcase Ventilation system at all. It would then just be a CV system. And that's a big difference.
Again, from the previously linked article:
06-10-2014, 01:34 PM
#31
Dude. I just thought about this for a minute and it hit me. Like a brick. Ouch. I've seen this problem answered before.
Run the PCV system like you would normally run it. Just hook the "breather" portion of the PCV to the intake ahead of the turbo instead of ahead of the throttle body.
Keep the rest of the system hooked up the way it sits - checkvalve to the intake manifold.
It'll work good as stock then.
Run the PCV system like you would normally run it. Just hook the "breather" portion of the PCV to the intake ahead of the turbo instead of ahead of the throttle body.
Keep the rest of the system hooked up the way it sits - checkvalve to the intake manifold.
It'll work good as stock then.
06-10-2014, 01:49 PM
#32
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Dude. I just thought about this for a minute and it hit me. Like a brick. Ouch. I've seen this problem answered before.
Run the PCV system like you would normally run it. Just hook the "breather" portion of the PCV to the intake ahead of the turbo instead of ahead of the throttle body.
Keep the rest of the system hooked up the way it sits - checkvalve to the intake manifold.
It'll work good as stock then.
Run the PCV system like you would normally run it. Just hook the "breather" portion of the PCV to the intake ahead of the turbo instead of ahead of the throttle body.
Keep the rest of the system hooked up the way it sits - checkvalve to the intake manifold.
It'll work good as stock then.
06-10-2014, 02:18 PM
#33
Sucks on the smoking.
06-12-2014, 02:13 PM
#34
Here's what I did. It's a check valve for a hydrogen generator project. I got it from Ebay. It's pretty oily inside but still works fine when I try to blow backwards thru it. Keeps from boosting crankcase, yet allows pcv gases to flow normally during vacuum. 
The rear hose is just left to vent to atmosphere.
I think larger injectors are not a good idea until you have a way to control them, i.e. piggyback. Your best bet is to use your 7th injector bandaid and just dont' run it hard in closed loop boost. Keep an eye on the AFR gauge. You're just going to have to band-aid your way thru it until (or even if) you decide to run a piggyback unit.
One of these guys: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-SAFTY-CHECK-VALVE-HYDROGEN-GENERATOR-Browns-Gas-/260380324698?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3c9fe0735a&vxp=mtr
The rear hose is just left to vent to atmosphere.
I think larger injectors are not a good idea until you have a way to control them, i.e. piggyback. Your best bet is to use your 7th injector bandaid and just dont' run it hard in closed loop boost. Keep an eye on the AFR gauge. You're just going to have to band-aid your way thru it until (or even if) you decide to run a piggyback unit.
One of these guys: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-SAFTY-CHECK-VALVE-HYDROGEN-GENERATOR-Browns-Gas-/260380324698?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3c9fe0735a&vxp=mtr
Last edited by vasinvictor; 06-12-2014 at 03:32 PM.
06-12-2014, 05:59 PM
#35
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Here's what I did. It's a check valve for a hydrogen generator project. I got it from Ebay. It's pretty oily inside but still works fine when I try to blow backwards thru it. Keeps from boosting crankcase, yet allows pcv gases to flow normally during vacuum. [IMG]http://api.viglink.com/api/click?
format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_14026110972776&key=a5e 11b5075b509bfc2570af7b6e5b404&libId=254a241c-b11b-4488-8370-1ee18915393a&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yotatech.com%2Ff 2%2Fvasinvictors-3-4-rear-mount-turbo-setup-274414%2F&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.co m%2Falbums%2Fnn15%2Fdrewvarvil%2FTurbo%25204Runner %2FIMG_4753.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yotatech.com% 2Ff2%2F&title=Vasinvictor%27s%203.4%20rear%20mount %20turbo%20setup%20-%20YotaTech%20Forums&txt=[/IMG]
The rear hose is just left to vent to atmosphere.
I think larger injectors are not a good idea until you have a way to control them, i.e. piggyback. Your best bet is to use your 7th injector bandaid and just dont' run it hard in closed loop boost. Keep an eye on the AFR gauge. You're just going to have to band-aid your way thru it until (or even if) you decide to run a piggyback unit.
One of these guys: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-SAFTY-CHECK-VALVE-HYDROGEN-GENERATOR-Browns-Gas-/260380324698?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3c9fe0735a&vxp=mtr
format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_14026110972776&key=a5e 11b5075b509bfc2570af7b6e5b404&libId=254a241c-b11b-4488-8370-1ee18915393a&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yotatech.com%2Ff 2%2Fvasinvictors-3-4-rear-mount-turbo-setup-274414%2F&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.co m%2Falbums%2Fnn15%2Fdrewvarvil%2FTurbo%25204Runner %2FIMG_4753.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yotatech.com% 2Ff2%2F&title=Vasinvictor%27s%203.4%20rear%20mount %20turbo%20setup%20-%20YotaTech%20Forums&txt=[/IMG]
The rear hose is just left to vent to atmosphere.
I think larger injectors are not a good idea until you have a way to control them, i.e. piggyback. Your best bet is to use your 7th injector bandaid and just dont' run it hard in closed loop boost. Keep an eye on the AFR gauge. You're just going to have to band-aid your way thru it until (or even if) you decide to run a piggyback unit.
One of these guys: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-SAFTY-CHECK-VALVE-HYDROGEN-GENERATOR-Browns-Gas-/260380324698?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3c9fe0735a&vxp=mtr
06-12-2014, 06:13 PM
#36
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Also what holset turbo do you have? Just in case the CT26 doesn't work out. And i just put 2 and 2 together and you were my inspiration when i seen your youtube video i didn't know that was your 4runner till just now. Your rig is pretty freakin sweet by the way.
06-12-2014, 09:24 PM
#37
Definitely leave your VAFM where it is. Mine has been fuctioning great like it is for many miles now. I appreciate your comments, I'm flattered :-)
Check out my build in my signature when you get a chance. I've got lots of details and timeslips posted. I'm running a Holset hx35. It gives me great top end, but won't full spool until 3,500 so not really fun torquey boost. The upside is that it drives completely stock until you really lay into it and then it wipes a dumb smile across yer face.
Check out my build in my signature when you get a chance. I've got lots of details and timeslips posted. I'm running a Holset hx35. It gives me great top end, but won't full spool until 3,500 so not really fun torquey boost. The upside is that it drives completely stock until you really lay into it and then it wipes a dumb smile across yer face.
06-13-2014, 08:45 AM
#38
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Definitely leave your VAFM where it is. Mine has been fuctioning great like it is for many miles now. I appreciate your comments, I'm flattered :-)
Check out my build in my signature when you get a chance. I've got lots of details and timeslips posted. I'm running a Holset hx35. It gives me great top end, but won't full spool until 3,500 so not really fun torquey boost. The upside is that it drives completely stock until you really lay into it and then it wipes a dumb smile across yer face.
Check out my build in my signature when you get a chance. I've got lots of details and timeslips posted. I'm running a Holset hx35. It gives me great top end, but won't full spool until 3,500 so not really fun torquey boost. The upside is that it drives completely stock until you really lay into it and then it wipes a dumb smile across yer face.
06-16-2014, 09:59 AM
#39
That's interesting I can make full boost in first gear at 3,400. I am using 4.10 gears and 31" tires. What about you? I found that biggest difference was a change to a MUCH small exhaust diameter. When I started I was running 2.5" from the collect to the the turbine inlet. It ran bad. Now I'm running crush bent 2" from the manifolds all the way back to turbine. Dramatically change the torque curve and boost threshold. You need to get your exhaust velocity up to get into boost sooner. It will also improve your holeshot until the boost comes in. The 3vze used 1 7/8" factory IIRC anyway. I am making a bunch of power on 1.5" ID PVC. I doubt I'd be making any more by moving to a larger diameter pipe.
06-16-2014, 07:29 PM
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That's interesting I can make full boost in first gear at 3,400. I am using 4.10 gears and 31" tires. What about you? I found that biggest difference was a change to a MUCH small exhaust diameter. When I started I was running 2.5" from the collect to the the turbine inlet. It ran bad. Now I'm running crush bent 2" from the manifolds all the way back to turbine. Dramatically change the torque curve and boost threshold. You need to get your exhaust velocity up to get into boost sooner. It will also improve your holeshot until the boost comes in. The 3vze used 1 7/8" factory IIRC anyway. I am making a bunch of power on 1.5" ID PVC. I doubt I'd be making any more by moving to a larger diameter pipe.
