john4wd

I installed rear engine seal and for some crazy reason and been knocking around in my head after wards why the inside spring popped out, I got it all installed tighten down checked it with a flashlight and saw that spring laying right next to rear crank bearing cap, I used permatex Permatex® Hi-Temp
RTV Silicone Gasket Sealant from NAPA 0.5 tube and dressed both side of gasket, what would be easier and less damaging, take off the seal retainer housing and do that all over again? Will it ruin the new seal? I put 30 weight oil on the seals lip and or take off the bearing cap and pop that spring back in that seal grove and put cap back and torque to spec? When I drove the seal into the retainer did I pop that spring out of it's grove slightly? Engine is on a stand. Doing the bearing cap sounds the easiest.

PS. guy at Toyota parts suggested using Permatex® Aviation Form-A-Gasket® No. 3 Sealant on both sides of the paper gasket instead of the afor mentioned permatex gasket sealant when I told him what happened. So which one is better?

putneysmachine

Judging by your sig, sounds like the PO had the engine rebuilt?
if so, we've seen some rebuilders but a "sleeve" (super thin cap) over the seal surface on the crankshaft to cover the groove worn into it from the previous rear main seal. Effectively making the crank a little thicker where the seal rests and putting more stress on the spring. It's a long shot, but, you never know.

As far as the seal housing goes, we use just the OE gasket and a super thin film of Permatex Grey (both sides) and have never had a leak.

Did you use a OEM rear main seal? Toyota has updated it. It's a double lipped silicone type. Part number 90311-80010. If you installed anything but that one, remove it and bite the bullet and pay Toyota the $28 for the right one. They work. Every time.

john4wd

There wasn't a sleeve on the end of the crank but there was a small groove, so I cut off rubber on the end of seal down to metal and put some of the Permatex® Hi-Temp
RTV Silicone Gasket Sealant from NAPA 0.5 tube around on the inside retainer housing area so that the trimmed down area on seal sets on, so that seal set further in retainer housing so to ride on a different area where wasn't that groove, I did a search on a redesigned rear seal and didn't find one, I did order a new redesigned front seal for oil pump #90311-45014. Is the gray sealant the ultra gray gasket maker #82194? I'm going to go pick up the new front oil pump seal I ordered and order the new redesigned rear main seal and get some of that big tube of ultra gray gasket maker at Auto Zone. That other small tube gray permatex #85409 say it's for rubber seals so I'm assuming that's not it.
Thanks for your help putneysmachine,
Ps. I'm heading to stealership and auto zone to get ultra gray sealant, I'll check this later to see if I got the right gray sealant.

putneysmachine

WHOA! Did you say you cut the rear main seal????!!!??

Hmmm. Not recommended. We do see a lot of the grooved rear seal area on the crank, but that is why we install the OEM seal (part number 90311-80010). Usually when you install it, it rides in a different area as the last seal and won't be riding on the groove. YIKES! You are scaring me.

Yes, the permatex is the 82194. use just a thin film and torque the housing bolts evenly. That's only for in between the rear seal housing and the block.

While you are there, install that OEM seal you picked up, and install it into the housing before you install it. Much easier.

john4wd

Martin crawler recommended on front seal in 2004 pirate4x4.com thread (http://www1.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314985), The last entry. I suspect before they redesigned the front seal, he says sand down with a belt sander the leading face down to until the base metal and that lets the seal further and away from the grove, thought about doing the same to rear, but cutting not sanding, so since the rear seal is fully covered in rubber I just shaved off the rubber, there is like about a 1/6 of rubber from the end thin area going into the retainer, (Not the sides of the seals) and put a bead of sealer on the retainer where that thin area seats against and that sealer just surrounded it and sealed it up, it seated about 1/6 of an inch further instead of being flush, but since now I know the rear seal has been redesign, Thanks for the info putneysmachine, ordered the new seal today ($32.57) and it will be in Tuesday so now what I did to the other older style seal don't have to do that now, whew!!!!

Ps. Has anybody doubled the spring on a front or rear seal, leave new one and the old seal that was removed take that spring out of it and put it inside behind the new seal spring, you think that would tighten the seal touching to limit leaks? Just a thought..

john4wd

I found reman badge on side of block and emailed the company PROformance Powertrain Products in Springfield, MO, The engine was installed in 2003 from what they said the truck mileage unknown when installed, So it's was not original motor, during tear down discovered a 0.20 shim gasket, a lot of water stains on block, was going to redo head and had it pressure tested was a crack in between the intake and exhaust on the #2 cylinder and was previously welded (not very good) it deformed the area so both valves wouldn't seat and so head is a boat anchor now (bought new head with 268 cam from engnbldr) and I can't say for sure if the rebuild in 03 from that place in MO but if it was and they put a shim in it and welded the head I don't think I would buy engine from them, so all in all it was time for a partial rebuild.
Truck was bought at a local auto auction in Louisville, KY by the guy I bought it from. He drove it for a few months and had new used timing cover and new timing kit installed, I bought it and got to 58 miles north on Louisville and it just died, glad it did, was full of brown crap from leaking new used cover and had it AAA rollback wreakered to outside Lafayette IN, got it restarted and decided to tear it apart and found bolts on tensioner weren't tighten, loose as a goose and would have failed if I kept driving it as it was and would have ruined a lot and with the removal of oil pan was full of broken guild pieces and oil strainer was completely cover in crap. guy I bought it from got pissed I decided to tare it apart but I'm glad I did!!!!

john4wd

putneysmachine, the new seal you told me about I got it and going to install and want to know since it's not a deep as the origanal style one, does it get seated all the way back into that housing like origanal one, the new style front seal I got to put in oil pump housing is the same as rear seal is as it's not as deap, does it get seated all the way into the oil pump housing, I read in another post install 1mm back from front edge...what about sealing that rear housing, so many people have so many ways to seal parts from leaking and I'm so ˟˟˟˟ in the head and confussed on what to do...Dang!!!! Never been so nervous!!!! Is there a vid some where on how to do everything, I wish!!!!

The MAN

as far as the rear cover goes, just like anything else... if there's a gasket, there's no need for adding any FIPG onto it if the gasket is NOT creased and the surfaces are smooth! Adding that in just causes problems, such as gasket removal later

as for the seal... I always install the seal into the cover first before installing the cover back onto the engine if I could do so... the inner lips should be greased with assembly lube or silicone grease... motor oil just isn't enough to lube it initially and the seal will get torn easily on a dry start... since it's just the spring that popped off, you should be able to put it back in as long as you don't remove the seal from the rear cover... pull the rear cover off, dig the spring out and just push the spring back into the back side of the seal

as long as the outer parts of the seal sits flush with the rear cover, it should be deep enough... the intent is to get the inner lip deep enough to glide and seal around the crank snout

john4wd

These have always been the big huge questions for me lately, 1. just paper? 2.just FIPG? or 3. paper and FIPG dressing on everything place that's around oil, but the oil pan? (That only gets FIPG) A guy at Toyota parts counter used aviation sealer on his rebuild with paper gaskets & suggested I do the same, so I bought some, I got all that been suggested to use, Toyota black FIPG, Toyota red FIPG, permatex ultra gray, aviation sealer, and the permatex black OEM in the small tiny tube< I used that on first attempt on rear seal using OEM originally designed seal.

Then putneysmachine told me about redesigned updated seal so I took it all apart and it came right off and so did the paper gasket with the gasket dressing, all pealed right off, but that was a non heat cycled from non running engine material.

Do I seat/install new updated seal all the way into the rear oil seal housing?

And do I seat/install updated front engine seal all the way into the oil pump housing?

I redid cover gasket on my B2300 rear end like almost 2 years ago with paper gasket only and no leaks so far, but gear oil is thicker, but also the gear oil sits on the bottom all the time, while engine oil returns to oil pan since both front and rear seals are above where it drains back too, so is paper gasket dressing really needed?

I put new thermostat housing and new thermostat on same 2.3L engine in truck and used only paper gasket and that was 8 months ago and no leaks and I drive it daily, so is paper dressing really needed or just a precaution and are 22r-e motors have that much more pressure it forces oil out more than other engines?

PS. The paper gaskets on B2300 are from Auto Zone parts, the t-stat housing came with own paper gasket, rear end housing felpro gasket I bought separately...

I would love to hear answers to my questions, Yea I know there are alot ;}