Problem with idle?
05-28-2009, 05:37 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Maui/Las Vegas
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Problem with idle?
Hi everyone,
I have have a 92 pickup 3.0 with a little shaky idle. Today I went to correct the timing if needed and noticed when I had the lite hooked up to spark plug #1 the little notch on the crank pulley would move about 1/4 in up and down from the correct timing mark (10). I have recently replaced the cap, rotor, new plugs(at .32) NGK, new wires NGK, also checked for intake leak none found, checked vacume diagram. So what do you guys think, me I'm guessing bad coil, would be nice to hear other opinions... thax in advance..
I have have a 92 pickup 3.0 with a little shaky idle. Today I went to correct the timing if needed and noticed when I had the lite hooked up to spark plug #1 the little notch on the crank pulley would move about 1/4 in up and down from the correct timing mark (10). I have recently replaced the cap, rotor, new plugs(at .32) NGK, new wires NGK, also checked for intake leak none found, checked vacume diagram. So what do you guys think, me I'm guessing bad coil, would be nice to hear other opinions... thax in advance..
05-28-2009, 05:50 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Maui/Las Vegas
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
idle is about 800 , also i ran some seafoam in the tank and through the intake/brake booster, you know the truck did sit for a year than i recently bought it, oh yea new fuel filter also.
Last edited by yoda84; 05-28-2009 at 05:52 PM.
05-28-2009, 07:36 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
e1 / te1, right?
anyhow... if that's jumpered the timing should settle pretty steadily on the marks.
Have you checked how the mark is with the jumper vs. without the jumper?
anyhow... if that's jumpered the timing should settle pretty steadily on the marks.
Have you checked how the mark is with the jumper vs. without the jumper?
Trending Topics
05-29-2009, 12:50 PM
#10
Registered User
From: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/n...89-95-a-10543/:
That's the best I've seen for the igniter; for the signal rotors and signal coils in the distributor, the fsm makes it pretty clear and is worth checking out:
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...12onvehicl.pdf
Check that all the pins are okay in the connector - sometimes they can get pushed back where contact is intermittent.
For a rough idle on a veezy you should also check that IDL in the tps makes contact to E2 when throttle is closed (idle position). Otherwise the computer thinks the throttle is open and injects too much fuel. Also, IDL has to be grounded in order for the spark advance to be disabled.
The injector cleaner is a good idea & I recommend one containing polyether amine (PEA) - Red Line's SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner and CRC's "Guaranteed to Pass - Emissions Test Formula" both have a good concentration of PEA. Techron used to, but they took it off their MSDS. I would add a bottle to about 3/4 tank of gas and run it down to 1/8 or so before refilling.
No Start Condition: Ignition and Coil Test Info for 3VZE (89-95)
A friend sent this to me, and it is taken from the Snap-On e-newsletter. I don't know the date on this, but thought it might be helpful to my fellow Toyota owners. Anyone with a 3.0 V6 that can verify that this information is good and useful, I would appreciate it. Hope this is helpful to you guys.
Tech Tip: No Spark and/or No Injector Pulse on Toyota
Application: 1989-1995 Toyota Pickup & 4-Runner with 3VZE Engine.
Symptom: No Start.
Theory: The Ignition system on this engine uses a Distributor with three
Pick-up Coils inside and an external Igniter and Coil. The ECM uses the
signals generated by the three Pick-ups to control the Igniter, which
controls the negative side of the Coil for spark. The Igniter also sends a
signal back to the ECM for injector pulse.
The Test: The first place to start is to check the Pick-ups inside the
Distributor. If any of them are defective, nothing else is going to work,
not even the tap-test we're going to do later. The first step is to test
resistance on each of the three Pick-ups. You'll want to check them with
the harness unplugged from the Distributor. Identify the terminals on the
Distributor connector using the wire colors on the harness side.
Terminal-1: White..NE signal
Terminal-2: Red..G1 signal
Terminal-3: Black..G2 signal
Terminal-4: Green..G- signal
Between G- and G1, it should be 125 & 200 ohms. Between G- and G2, it
should also be 125 to 200 ohms. Between G- and NE, it should 155 to 250
ohms. All of these resistance specs are at ambient temperature. If checked
on a hot engine, the tolerances go up about 30 ohms. If any one Pick-up
fails the test, it needs to be replaced before any further testing.
If all three Pick-ups pass, we need to do a "tap-test" at the Igniter. Make sure
the connector is plugged back in at the Distributor. Go to the Igniter,
which should be mounted at the Coil. On the Igniter connector, locate the
Black/Blue wire and probe into it with a test-light. With the key on, tap
the alligator clip of the test-light on battery negative and watch for
spark out of the Coil. If you get no response, try tapping the alligator
clip on battery positive, again watching for spark out of the Coil. If
there's no spark in either case, check for battery voltage at the positive
side of the Coil. If that's okay, attach a second test-light from ground to
the negative side of the Coil and redo the tap-test at the Igniter. If the
test-light on Coil negative flashes during the tap-test, and you had
voltage on the positive side, you have a bad Coil.
If the second test-light did not flash on Coil negative, we need to check the
remaining wires at the Igniter. Make sure you have battery voltage on the
Black/Red wire at the Igniter with the key on. If that's okay, make sure you
have continuity on the Black/White wire between the Igniter connector and
the negative side of the Coil. Make sure the Igniter itself is grounded properly
to its mountingsurface on the truck, no rust or corrosion. The last check will be
to makesure the Black wire does not show full continuity to ground. This wire
goes to the Tachometer, and if grounded somewhere in the harness, will keep
the Igniter from working.
If all of these things pass inspection, chances are good you have a defective Igniter.
Be sure you check resistance on the Coil to be sure we don't damage a new Igniter.
The primary side should be 0.4 to 0.6 ohms. Secondary should be 10,200 to 13,800 ohms.
The Fix: Replace the defective parts determined by the above testing. Don't
forget, if you do end up replacing the Igniter, double check Coil
resistance to avoid damaging a new Igniter.
__________________
Jeremy
1988 Toyota 4x4 | 22RE | 5 Speed (W56) | EB cam
A friend sent this to me, and it is taken from the Snap-On e-newsletter. I don't know the date on this, but thought it might be helpful to my fellow Toyota owners. Anyone with a 3.0 V6 that can verify that this information is good and useful, I would appreciate it. Hope this is helpful to you guys.
Tech Tip: No Spark and/or No Injector Pulse on Toyota
Application: 1989-1995 Toyota Pickup & 4-Runner with 3VZE Engine.
Symptom: No Start.
Theory: The Ignition system on this engine uses a Distributor with three
Pick-up Coils inside and an external Igniter and Coil. The ECM uses the
signals generated by the three Pick-ups to control the Igniter, which
controls the negative side of the Coil for spark. The Igniter also sends a
signal back to the ECM for injector pulse.
The Test: The first place to start is to check the Pick-ups inside the
Distributor. If any of them are defective, nothing else is going to work,
not even the tap-test we're going to do later. The first step is to test
resistance on each of the three Pick-ups. You'll want to check them with
the harness unplugged from the Distributor. Identify the terminals on the
Distributor connector using the wire colors on the harness side.
Terminal-1: White..NE signal
Terminal-2: Red..G1 signal
Terminal-3: Black..G2 signal
Terminal-4: Green..G- signal
Between G- and G1, it should be 125 & 200 ohms. Between G- and G2, it
should also be 125 to 200 ohms. Between G- and NE, it should 155 to 250
ohms. All of these resistance specs are at ambient temperature. If checked
on a hot engine, the tolerances go up about 30 ohms. If any one Pick-up
fails the test, it needs to be replaced before any further testing.
If all three Pick-ups pass, we need to do a "tap-test" at the Igniter. Make sure
the connector is plugged back in at the Distributor. Go to the Igniter,
which should be mounted at the Coil. On the Igniter connector, locate the
Black/Blue wire and probe into it with a test-light. With the key on, tap
the alligator clip of the test-light on battery negative and watch for
spark out of the Coil. If you get no response, try tapping the alligator
clip on battery positive, again watching for spark out of the Coil. If
there's no spark in either case, check for battery voltage at the positive
side of the Coil. If that's okay, attach a second test-light from ground to
the negative side of the Coil and redo the tap-test at the Igniter. If the
test-light on Coil negative flashes during the tap-test, and you had
voltage on the positive side, you have a bad Coil.
If the second test-light did not flash on Coil negative, we need to check the
remaining wires at the Igniter. Make sure you have battery voltage on the
Black/Red wire at the Igniter with the key on. If that's okay, make sure you
have continuity on the Black/White wire between the Igniter connector and
the negative side of the Coil. Make sure the Igniter itself is grounded properly
to its mountingsurface on the truck, no rust or corrosion. The last check will be
to makesure the Black wire does not show full continuity to ground. This wire
goes to the Tachometer, and if grounded somewhere in the harness, will keep
the Igniter from working.
If all of these things pass inspection, chances are good you have a defective Igniter.
Be sure you check resistance on the Coil to be sure we don't damage a new Igniter.
The primary side should be 0.4 to 0.6 ohms. Secondary should be 10,200 to 13,800 ohms.
The Fix: Replace the defective parts determined by the above testing. Don't
forget, if you do end up replacing the Igniter, double check Coil
resistance to avoid damaging a new Igniter.
__________________
Jeremy
1988 Toyota 4x4 | 22RE | 5 Speed (W56) | EB cam
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...12onvehicl.pdf
Check that all the pins are okay in the connector - sometimes they can get pushed back where contact is intermittent.
For a rough idle on a veezy you should also check that IDL in the tps makes contact to E2 when throttle is closed (idle position). Otherwise the computer thinks the throttle is open and injects too much fuel. Also, IDL has to be grounded in order for the spark advance to be disabled.
The injector cleaner is a good idea & I recommend one containing polyether amine (PEA) - Red Line's SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner and CRC's "Guaranteed to Pass - Emissions Test Formula" both have a good concentration of PEA. Techron used to, but they took it off their MSDS. I would add a bottle to about 3/4 tank of gas and run it down to 1/8 or so before refilling.
Last edited by sb5walker; 05-29-2009 at 12:55 PM.
05-29-2009, 03:04 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Maui/Las Vegas
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok check this out i was checking through the dis,coil,igniter,with my ohm meter and every thing looks good but my coil the primary resistance is 1-0 the book says 3-6 but the secondary is fine at 13. so with that said if my primary resistance is that low will this be the cause of a shaky idle and lack power, can someone maybe check their primary and secondary resistance with an ohm and tell me what they got...oh yes thank you sb5walker for the info i followed it to get to this point.
05-29-2009, 03:24 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
You mean ohms, right?
How to explain....
Primary resistance is too low means that too much current will be drawn by the coil causing the coil to overheat. Also will affect the igniter causing it to heat up as well. Coil primary windings getting too hot will increase resistance in the windings resulting in an overall drop in secondary winding voltage causing a weak spark.
Igniter getting too hot due to the excessive current draw from the coil could cause the igniter circuitry to fail: the switching transistors "break down" or "avalanche", and then open the coil primary circuit causing the magnetic field in the coil primary to collapse prematurely, and cause the coil to fire at the wrong time. A few misfires and the current through the secondary windings drops letting the coil cool off a bit and the cycle repeats.
Not sure I've got all that entirely proper but... had the same thing with my Sin91's truck and replaced the coil and all is better and stable timing to boot.
How to explain....
Primary resistance is too low means that too much current will be drawn by the coil causing the coil to overheat. Also will affect the igniter causing it to heat up as well. Coil primary windings getting too hot will increase resistance in the windings resulting in an overall drop in secondary winding voltage causing a weak spark.
Igniter getting too hot due to the excessive current draw from the coil could cause the igniter circuitry to fail: the switching transistors "break down" or "avalanche", and then open the coil primary circuit causing the magnetic field in the coil primary to collapse prematurely, and cause the coil to fire at the wrong time. A few misfires and the current through the secondary windings drops letting the coil cool off a bit and the cycle repeats.
Not sure I've got all that entirely proper but... had the same thing with my Sin91's truck and replaced the coil and all is better and stable timing to boot.
Last edited by abecedarian; 05-29-2009 at 03:26 PM.
05-29-2009, 03:28 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
But a worn distributor could do the same thing, letting the distributor shaft 'bounce around' thus affecting when the pickups in the distributor get the proper signal.
05-29-2009, 03:34 PM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Maui/Las Vegas
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
right on makes sense, looks like i will be replacing the coil hope that s the problem.. so wondering can i put a aftermarket coil in its place with the stock igniter, like a msd or super coil.....
05-29-2009, 03:39 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
That's what I tried with Sin91's truck- installed an MSD Blaster coil. It worked fine for about a year then started leaking oil and the timing started bouncing around causing the idle to fluctuate. Changed the MSD coil out for the proper coil and the idle stopped surging and the timing settled down flat.
05-29-2009, 03:47 PM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Maui/Las Vegas
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yea i just priced a replacement coil from meyers her in town the want like $75 for it but i also talked to a performance shop and the guy said that he dont think the blaster 2 coil will work on my truck. all i would need to do is cut the plug in wires to the stock coil and hook the + & - to the blaster coils + & - right thats what you did and it should work with the stock igniter....
05-29-2009, 03:53 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
The Blaster coil had threaded post / terminals like the stock coil I took off. Thought I might get a little better / smoother performance from her truck. The Blaster coil is the coil that failed (after about 5K miles) and got replaced with an ND coil which is still in there 3 years later.
If you do the Blaster coil, make sure you get an appropriate ballast resistor (which would negate the benefit of using the coil, BTW) so the coil doesn't burn up. ... might be why the performance shop guy doesn't think the B2 coil will work...... no?
If you do the Blaster coil, make sure you get an appropriate ballast resistor (which would negate the benefit of using the coil, BTW) so the coil doesn't burn up. ... might be why the performance shop guy doesn't think the B2 coil will work...
... no?
05-29-2009, 04:22 PM
#18
Registered User
A low ohm coil will kill an igniter, so good you caught it. If you think coils are expensive, try igniters!
Use a Denso or Denso-type direct replacement coil - the toy engineers designed every bit of the ignition system to produce the right spark in the cyl. If the Denso is over your budget, you can get away with a Beck/Arnley from rockauto - $48. Like you, I needed a coil two years ago and was strapped for cash. The B/A ohmed out perfectly and has performed perfectly ever since. Get a Denso if you can afford it, otherwise the B/A is a decent substitute.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...0,partGroup,25
Use a Denso or Denso-type direct replacement coil - the toy engineers designed every bit of the ignition system to produce the right spark in the cyl. If the Denso is over your budget, you can get away with a Beck/Arnley from rockauto - $48. Like you, I needed a coil two years ago and was strapped for cash. The B/A ohmed out perfectly and has performed perfectly ever since. Get a Denso if you can afford it, otherwise the B/A is a decent substitute.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...0,partGroup,25
05-29-2009, 04:27 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Maui/Las Vegas
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you know im going stock so what is ND... or you know any good brands....checker has Niehoff, autozone has durallast, and pep boys brog-waner, meyers has standard..
