PitbullTruckin

Ay guys been awhile since Ive been on here and yes you read the title correctly. I have a 86 4runner 22re 5 speed IFS. My alternator crapped out on me so went ahead and have the gm swap in route. I started tearing everything out so I am good to go when the parts come in am really digging all the extra space and not having my leaky PS pump over my new alternator (PO had used PS fluid so have a couple leaks between the box and pump ) + as I am removing the a/c that has not worked since I have had her(BS r12 to 134 conversion all the ring and rubbers are shot on the system leaks everywere) as well I will only have 1 belt on the whole engine which is cool to me. I did search and only found plenty of manual to power swaps but from that I am gathering that I just need to get and install a manual box. Is there anything I am missing or any tricks that would help with the conversion?

Also being as this part wasn't planned and may take a bit longer to get the manual box and kinda need my truck back, I was wondering if I could do a temporary rig of looping the lines on the power steering box like on an old chevy? I know the ratio is going to be a bit tougher then the actual manual box but Im not exactly little and have driven manual steering before but wish I had thought of this when the truck was running so i could have just popped the PS belt and actually tried it out to see if it would be tolerable for like 2 weeks max till i get it done right. Anybody ever break a PS belt or have a pump crap out on ya with a 4runner? how bad was it? I know that I can just hook it all back up and wait til i have all the parts but that would make to much sense + everythings allready unhooked and I don't really want PS fluid on my new alternator

I am aware of the "downgrade" of what I am doing and what all comes with manual steering and Im not gunna argue with you and if it wasn't giving me trouble I wouldn't be yanking it right now but I am kinda shooting for a very utility, simplistic rig + dont really want to just rebuild or replace the PS pump right now (again just makes to much sense for me) don't rock crawl, don't bury her in mud main deal is a daily and getting to that real good hunting, fishing, drinking spot + haven't had manual steering in a while FTW. Anyway any info and/or experience is appreciated

ThatGuy1295

Im going to say it anyway.

You can't find any threads because its a horrible idea and nobody has ever gotten rid of power steering to have manual steering. Its less work to fix your power steering then it is to find a manual steering box and switch it all over. It would be like going back to the horse and buggy because of a flat tire on your car. Your being absolutely ridiculous.

Manual steering is horrible no matter what your doing.

ODES

I'm not going to judge you if that's what you really want to do but I did have my bearing going out on the p/s idler I drove that way for about two weeks I'm a big guy and I didn't have much trouble it was nothing like my 67 ford f250

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Ok I don`t know why you would want to do this but go for it.

Good luck finding a manual steering box.Then after the cost of rebuilding .

As long as fluid is still in the system it won`t hurt anything.

The only time one has real issues is when parking .

Stock size tires are bad enough Bigger will be interesting.

If all your parking is in nice lots your ok.

Trying to parallel park people will laugh thinking it is your first time.

Now I am a little guy so that might be part of the problem in my younger days I would carry small block Chevy engines and could not figure out why people looked at me funny.

JohnnyCanuck

I had a fair number of vehicles with standard steering, bigger tires were easier to turn, the weight of the vehicle is spread over a bigger area. Think of it this way: me stepping on your foot with the heel of my running shoe, then me stepping on your foot wearing high heel shoes and the narrow pointy heel digging into your foot. I was surprised when I switched from my 16" narrow split rim tires to 35" tires on my 68 Ford f250, it was pretty noticeable steering it, aside from parking. Now you have the image of me wearing high heels in your head . Back on topic, you can find a ps pump for cheap at an auto wreckers. If you 4x4 with your 4 runner, it will take 1 minute of steering manually on a trail or in mud for you go back to ps.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Manual boxes are geared different .

My point was bigger tires with the power steering setup just with the lines looped or belt off.

We want pics of you in Heels!!

are they 4" or 6" do you have any tips on working in the shop wearing them??

JohnnyCanuck

Well, if my wife had a set of heels in size 13 I'd do it, thankfully it won't happen.

PitbullTruckin

@ Thatguy you just hafta be that guy huh?

@Odes Thanks that was some of the info i was looking for. I did realize although I can't drive her right now i can just unlock the steering and crank her around at a standstill which should be the hardest part anyway and wasn't to bad cranking full left to right.

@Wyoming I found some remans around 2-250 with warrenty plus have a couple lines on take offs in good shape yes I could prolly get a good PS box or rebuild my current one for the same or less but where is the fun in that? im only running 31s so should be alright will find out soon. The manual box has a different easier ratio then the power box. The looped deal will be temporary.

@Canuck I get what your saying but could have done without the visual man and you got wyoming all excited lol.

As stated in the op I realize what I am doing and that to most anybody it don't make a lick of sense and I dont care I am trying something out. Info I left out is I am doing a SAS in Feb-March so I will get to see which I like better before the swap and set that up once. Absolute worst case scenerio is I completely hate and or can't deal with the manual steering and rebuild and install my PS system back in or wait for the swap and do it then either way no harm no foul I am not doing anything permanent or destroying anything by removing it for now. I think all the haters are just mad cause of the extra 80-85 HP I will be getting by not having to spin that stupid PS pump

92DLX

I had manual steering in my truck and at first I loved the simplicity of it. I actually sought out a DLX model for the manual windows etc. Manual steering was fine in the country where parking is easy but it was horrible off-road and in the city. Off-road you're likely to hurt yourself and it is very tough to maintain a good line when the wheel is yanking around with so much force. And in the city, as others have said, parallel parking is embarrassing and even tight turns in crowded areas were hair raising on occasion. Having to slightly roll the vehicle to make slow speed maneuvers might put additional wear on the clutch as well.

The only, and I mean only, benefit to manual steering that I saw was that it kept my arms stronger. It turned out that the IDEA of manual steering was simple but that the actual reality of it was more complicated than having a power steering system.

I put in a PS system and tossed the manual box after thinking "No one in their right mind will want this thing...". Had I know I'd have saved it for you, even if you aren't in your right mind.

ThatGuy1295

Did you know I earn 12 cents every time somebody says that thinking there the first?

Try standing flat footed on concret and spinning your foot. Now stand on your heel and spin your foot. Don't try telling me its easier to spin the flat foot with your weight on it then it is to spin the heel with your weight on it. Spinning tops are on a small point because its less resistance. Otherwise it spin better upside down.

Drag cars have really wide rear tires, because they don't want traction?

JohnnyCanuck

OFF TOPIC ALERT!! You're analogy makes my point, wide tires spread the contact point of the tire over a wider area. Same reason people don't use skinny tires for sand or deep snow.

ThatGuy1295

This is far from off topic. This concept is related to steering resistance.

And how on earth does my analogy make your point?
Your basically saying that a wider tire has less resistance when turning right?
How come your shoe is the opposite? Why do clutches get bigger the bigger the engine? It has more grabbing power the bigger diameter regardless of spring pressure. Otherwise we would be using samurai clutches on our V8's lol.

Now offset rims will reduce steering effort some when stopped. This is because the further a wheel gets from centerline the more it actually rolls forward and backward as you turn instead of just twisting in one spot thus relieving some as it turns.

If a tire were to be perfectly round and only 1'' wide it would have an extremely small contact area on the ground and steering extremely easy because there is hardly any surface area to create friction. If you were to go total opposite just for fun, a perfectly round tire thats 40'' wide, imagine how far the outer sides of the tire have to move when turning.
To turn the tire a few degrees the outsides of the tire would have to slide literally several inches. To say that it gets easier to spin something the larger it gets it simply not logical in any case. Try spinning a 40'' X 40'' area rug on carpet from the center. lol.

Anyways, I have 33'' 10.5's that are way more aggressive then my old toyo 33'' 12.5's and I can actually hear the difference in my PS pump. Its way easier with the 10.5's on dry concrete when stopped.

ThatGuy1295

I guess I should ask everybody. But does it get easier to steer when stopped with 10psi or 35psi regardless of tire size this concept in indisputable. Lowering the psi makes the tire wider very hard to turn. And were not discussing rolling resistance, simply traction, weather its turning or spinning. The flat tire has more traction because of its increased surface area. A tire with the most traction is harder to lose traction. You have to lose traction in order to steer. If you had 100% traction meaning your tire was glued to the ground, you would not be able to steer.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I want to see a power steering pump that takes 80 to 85 horsepower to turn??

fitting in our engine compartments with the engine!!!

JohnnyCanuck

Don't you DARE bring science into this!

PitbullTruckin

first?[/QUOTE] then I guess you must make a habit of useless/ unwanted/unneeded posts I did not ask for your or anyone else opinion or personal preferences as I am doing this regardless and I thought was clear on the OP

everyone else thanks for the input . Dlx that would have been awsome but thanks anyways. P.S. the doctors say the same thing I guess when you land on your head at about 100 something's bound to get knocked loose.

I am also looking for confirmation that a 2x4 Manuel steering box will work with the 4x4 ifs most things are saying different parts but look damn similar and a few post indicating its a direct swap while also benefitting from typically being in much better shape on a takeoff because hasn't been crankin 4x4 + 31" tires . If anybody knows for sure please enlighten me or point me in the right direction. Also will the power steering pitman arm also work on it? Thanks

ThatGuy1295

Ok, good luck on your build, be sure to post pics.

Im installing a set of mountain bike pedals in my tacoma later this week and scraping the motor, I figure it will be a lot easier and cheaper then dealing with all that complex engine stuff in the future. But seriously I'm just kidding. Im however fairly certain that nobody on this site has ever done that before, so don't be shocked if you don't get much info on this, But best of luck anyways

P.S. Nobody ever asks for opinions on here, but they get em.