Gamefreakgc

Your plugs look fine. They are supposed to have a "mocha" coloring on the ceramic. Rich conditions would look black or has soot collecting on them in most cases.

Gevo

Thanks gamefreak, yeah I also thought the plugs looked pretty good. Just before further leaning out the AFM, I replaced the platinum plugs with the v-power NGK's and took more pics to compare. They look more or less the same.



Just one thing, one side has some black on it. I have no idea what this means.

Gamefreakgc

Could be different because of your camera, but it looks like to me that one is running rich because of the black buildup. Is it oily, or more like a dry powder? That could be the beginning signs of a rich cylinder.

Gevo

It was not oily, it was a dry/hard layer. Two cylinders (maybe 3?.. I saved the plugs) had that same look. I curious how it's so localized on that side.

These pics and the ones from a previous post were taken about 600 miles apart.

turkeykiller365

if you're getting a dry black soot on the plugs that means your engine is running rich. But for the numbers you posted, it should be MUCH blacker. I just had a similar problem on my V8 and they were black as the night. Did you check the o2 sensor(s)? That would cause running rich, loss of power, bogging, etc. Because it would throw the afr all caddy whompus. That and is the timing perfect? I had a 22re slip a chain pitch or something and i had NO power whatsoever. Chainged out the chains and sprockets and it was all gravy.

Gevo

Turkey Killer,

I am sure the timing is correct. I had it running at 15 degrees, but as I started to lean out the AFM, I decided to retard it to 12 degrees, no pinging or anything though. The engine feels as strong as it has since she started running after the rebuild. I tried my old 02 sensor again but it wasn't working well it seemed.

If you read RJR's Diag Port thread you'll see that his program will help me diagnose where, and if, there is a problem. So, that's my next step.

Gamefreakgc

It's odd that not all of them are looking the same. That leads me to believe somehow, the air/fuel ratio is not the same on all the cylinders. I remember that a few bad batches of flamethrower injectors went out, some users reported some strange fuel issues. You might try contacting the seller, he's got a profile here on YotaTech.

Gevo

I wouldn't be surprised either since I already had a confirmed issue with 1 of them. The owner sent 4 new injectors to me, was supposed to be 2 but some shipping issue happened. I offered to send the unused ones back but he didnt respond. Anyway, after another couple of tanks Ill have some more data and Ill go from there. I should be able to see which cylinders are different and determine which injectors to swap out first. I really dont want to go back to stock because it means I have to redo the connectors on harness.

Gamefreakgc

Re-do the connectors? They are just plug-in adapters, or did you modify them to be permanent?

Also, sets of injectors are matched for flow patterns. It's possible that your old/new ones are flowing a few more cc's than the others. If it matters, I had one of the professional injector cleaners tell me once in person that higher flow injectors (if there is a difference) should be placed in the hottest part of the engine, for us that's #3 and #4. Might help a little.

Gevo

Yes, I soldered the orange flamethrower injectors into the harness since the old connectors were broken. 3 out of 6 were anyway. I figured it's a gamble, but it was worth it... at the time. lol.

Gamefreak, I will keep that in mind about the rich-running injectors... But, I much prefer to have a set that are matched properly. We'll see what the results are in a couple hundred miles and I'll go from there.

Question.. I thought that # 5 and 6 would be the hottest cylinders due to the proximity to the exhaust manifold crossover...? Why is it 3 and 4?

RSR

Possibly a TPS issue?

Or the O2 sensor puts out info but the ECU doesn't look at it.

Not sure which is the correct answer. Sorry.

Gevo

RSR, I'm probably going to bite the bullet and get a another new 02 sensor soon. Just to get that off my mind for good. As far as the TPS is concerned, I've checked it so many times, and with the TE1 and E2 connected, the ECU shows that the TPS is in IDLE since the check engine line blinks until you touch the throttle, then it goes to code fifty-something that says the TPS IDL is not connected, which it should.

Further driving and monitoring the 02 sensor outputs are giving me some confusion. I dialed the AFM from 12 clicks lean to 10 clicks lean, so the leanest reading I get from the O2 sensor is 2.5V. However, I only get the 2.5 V under moderate acceleration/load on the engine. Coasting in IDL it acts weird, and different than I have been told that it should act. It goes from the steady state driving output of 1.9V, to 2.5 at acceleration, then once I release the throttle it drops to 0 for a couple of seconds, then steady at about 1.5 V. None of this is new though.

Unfortunately I can not use RJR's awesome program to see what my ECU is seeing from the sensors and compare to the O2 sensor output sinec my car does not have the TE2 in the diag port

Next step, as gamefreak also pointed out earlier, I will be checking my new plugs and seeing which ones are lean vs Normal vs. Rich, and exchange the injector for the rich showing cylinders. Perhaps I have one, or two injectors running at a much much higher rate than they should.

On a similar note, I finally tested out my freeway only MPG. I went form Encino to Cachuma lake and back (hills and traffic) and got 17.5 MPG, vs my mix driving of 14 mpg. I imagine on flat freeways I can get near 19.

Ok, just some more thoughts... writing it out like this keeps my thoughts in line

muddmadness

CA smog problem solved, I took the truck back to OR and applied CA Vin # to the OR plates and got a title. CA has to honor the new vin they placed on the truck and since the title has been issued they can no longer call her Special construction....CA can kiss my Butt....

Gevo

great news!!!

muddmadness

Yep after my last brake and light check I got mad and said to hell with it, the brake and light check guy sent me away the first time saying that there were a few things that he would not fail me on and when I brought it back with everything but those items on the list he said he couldn't pass me. I got a bit miffed at that point and told him what I thought and left. So right now I am waiting on the new title so I can go and get my OR drivers license and call it good. Problem solved and all that is left to do on the little blue beast is leaf springs, a new master and booster for the brakes, bumpers and exhaust. Happy truck owner again

Gevo

I'm back to this thread....

I didn't want to start another one as the topic has been covered a bunch of times but SOME how my situation seems to be a little different.

The truck ran fine for about 3k miles. St morning was all loaded up and was driving to the local starbucks before we head to the mountains for some camping... and I felt the engine really struggling and somewhat stumbling... no power..

The night before I got a code 52, circuit issue with knock sensor... I dont know how it's related, once at starbucks I popped the hood and at low rpm during throttling up it pops/backfires. I can't tell where it's coming from, exhaust side or intake side. I checked all sensors related to fuel, I put multimeter back on O2 sensor and it has not changed since 3k miles ago.

Can the code 52 and backfire be related? I checked the wiring from the connector of the knock sensor to the ECM and it is fine. I drove it on the freeway just now and it seems ot have power at higher revs and it doesn't seem like it pops or anything once it is revving.

I read a bunch on this forum and a few people had a problem with their camshafts and that was their fix for backfire. How do I diagnose this?

Help... I'm really disappointing ....

PS: I put in 5 gallons of what seemed to be regular gas which was in my parents' garage, I needed the gas can empty... you think bad gas???

Gevo

I may be hte only one hear, but for completeness sake I will post my finding with the recent issues.

So, I did further troubleshooting and saw that my spark is very erratic under the timing light. The symptoms again have been some popping and even less power, and also hesitation at initial throttling up from idle.

I started to troubleshoot the spark/ignition circuit, which from my 'no start condition' days I am very familiar with. I tested the wiring, my initial suspect with everything on this car... Then I tested the pickup coils (signal generators) in the distributor, and sure enough the resistance oer G- and G2 which is supposed to be max 220 ohms cam back at 1.7 K-Ohms. I thought, hmm can it be.. to be sure it isn't a fluke of the coils position I started the car, shut it down and tested it again, and repeated this several times and got mixed results coming in between 460ohms to 1.7k ohms. At this point, I am fairly certain this is causing my erratic spark and power loss issues (and popping...? ). Once I get a new distributor in their I'll report back.

PS: It's very annoying when reading through the forums and the person postin ght trouble doesn't report back with the solution

as always, all of your comments are more than welcome!

scope103

Back in the day, an oscilloscope was a popular diagnostic tool in well-equipped garages. With the demise of "points" and condensors it's use has just about disappeared. But if you found one, your problem might show up there.

But your measurements, combined with your symptoms, do point to the distributor.

DO let us know how it turns out.

Gamefreakgc

Your 4Runner has turned out to be quite the project! Hope this does it for you...

Gevo

Thanks Scope, I should be taking delivery of an OEM one (used) to see which problems it will solve. If it does turn out to be the culprit, I will just bite the very expensive bullet and get a new OEM one soon after.

Rockauto let me return the cardone unit I had purchased which was out of spec from day one.


Gamefreak, at this point I need some reliability out of this truck!!! I honestly don't mind working on it, just bothers the heck out of me when it 'breaks down' after all this work.

At this point, I'm far enough in that I won't be able to recoop more than 90% of what it's cost me so far, anything further will be 'loss'. I hope no more breakdowns... I still have few more parts I'm changing in the coming weeks though...