hjkmotor

well u may have noticed iv been starting a lot of threads lately but im sitting around at college and all i do is think of ideas. sorry if this is a problem for anyone

anyway. my newest idea. has anyone done this or what are your opinions on the possiblity of the following

what if on an ifs truck ditching all the torsion bar stuff, welding a shock hoop on the frame and mounting one of these Image Hosting to the stock lower shock mount and to the shock hoop.

what do u think? it will be like long travel set-up with out the long travel. and a hell of a lot cheaper. $50 for shock hoops and $280 for two coilovers =$330. the only problem i can see would be if theres enough space in the upper a-arm for the coilover to fit. also if it will fit around the drive shafts

basically the reason would be to clean up ur truck of all the torsion bar equipment (its a little bulky) and it might provide a little better "flex" for ifs trucks.

iamsuperbleeder

well, I think the MAIN problem you might run into is the fact that the lower control arms are not meant to take the sprung weight of the truck... if that makes any sence...

the shock mount there sees a good amount of force, don't get me wrong, but it is NOT designed to take the weight of the front of the truck, which it would be doing if you mounted a coil-over to it...

limon32

I'm not sure what you would gain performance wise from a coil over setup. Since the arms will be the same length flex wouldn't improve over a torsion bar system since your not changing any geometry. The only advantage I can see is quicker spring rate changes assuming you use adjustable coilovers. I'm curious what others have to say about this though.

Matt16

superbleeder makes a very good point.

Jay351

No point to just throwing on some coil overs.

It would probibly ride worse, torsion bars ride reallll nice

If you want flex, throw on bj spacers and loosen the torsion bars.

hjkmotor

im not looking for a fix personally. i was just kinda throwing out the idea.

this is more what i was thinking....

we r all familiar with the way the shock mounts right?
well basically u would move the top mount higher with the hoop and u would be able to fit a longer shock and y not replace the spring aka tortion bar with a coil.

again not arguing or trying to make it sound possible, just throwing out ideas. maybe we can come up with something.

or maybe im just trying to apply my racecar experience to my truck

hjkmotor

this the image in my mind.

(look at the second small pic down)
http://www.prerunnermaniac.com/Preru...Prerunners.php

i know thats an actual prerunner, but apply the shock and spring to our ifs.

the problems im still seing r space for the d-shaft, and general benefit is it worth trying.

yoterr

http://blazeland.us/images/saw2.5_10_wcoil.jpg kinda like that? except you want to use the stock location right?, it would be much easier to do whats in the pic than to use the stock location

hjkmotor

give or take. lol

Jay351

In theory it could work. But you would have to gusset the heck out of the lower control arm mounts...

find a way to mount the coilover so there is still room for the cv shafts


To be honest, it wouldnt really do anything for your ride.. coils ride harsher than torsions.. And if you arent going Long travel, then whats the point?

FredTJ

What's your race car experience ?

The big 'ole Sprints and Winged Sprints run t-bars, not coilovers




Fred

abecedarian

and CART / INDY and F1 all use variations of torsion bars too, going so far as to mount the shocks horizontally and cantilever over for dampening.

I think the closest most get to coil-overs is IMSA / SCCA / SCORE and rally cars... or maybe Busch / NASCAR.

limon32

I do like the idea of coilovers that are adjustable but i'm not sure thats practical, as in how often you would actually change spring rate?

With a proper set of shocks, I personally really like the IFS setup toyota put together. I did add slightly larger torsion bars (26mm I think - the guy I bought the truck from bought them...).

Slightly off topic, but related, has anyone ever seen an attempt at fabbing an independant REAR suspension for a toyota pickup? That would require (I think) a coilover type setup. Just curious.

hjkmotor

my experience is SCCA road course racing. most ppl in the more modified classes run coilovers

edeslaur

I'm sure neither are the lower ball joints. Before messing the arm up, it would probably pull that joint apart.

AxleIke

Uhhhh....What? Coils ride WAY better than torsion bars. I hate my torsion bar set up, and have been working on designs for CO's on the front of my truck for quite some time.

The lower control arm isn't much of an issue. Cut the shock mount off, weld on a CO mount.

The upper A-arm is a big issue. It is not designed to fit something that is 3+ inches in diameter through the hole, and still allow full articulation of the arm. You would have to shave the inner lip, which makes it weak.

Best bet is to built new uppers and lowers, IMO. If I ever make up my mind on the front of my truck, and decide to stay IFS, I'll make my own. 3/8 wall DOM with a center plate will handle the abuse for the lowers, and 120 or 118 wall for the uppers. Biggest issue for me will be getting the lower ball joint mount milled.

I think that if I could find some T100 axles for fairly cheap, and rebuild them, I'd be pretty happy with some extra width.

For race cars, I don't know what the best set up is, as that is a whole different ball game. But for a street driven trail truck, up to a very mild rock truck, CO's are where its at. Torsion bars are harsh, and the rear brackets hang down too far.

BlazeN8

TB's and coils ride feel is fairly similar with the proper setup, much smoother than leafs. With TBs it is important to use aftermarket UCA and LCA poly bushings that are free floating and non-binding. The stock bushings are bonded to the steel shell and sleeve and do not allow rotation. When you cycle extreme rotation with that design the rubber bushings bind and eventually chunk apart. Once the bushing problem is solved the ride is much nicer, very similar to coils. The next issue with TBs is strengh. If you use a properly designed TB like the 25mm SAW, the Downey 26mm, and the Rancho 24mm you are not maxing out the pre-load of the 22.5mm stocker's. You also need to upgrade the Torque Arms that connect the TBs to the UCAs. Use the heavy duty ones from a late model V-6 ot T-100. With these issues addressed TBs will ride very well and are plenty strong. Part of the equation to TB strength is proper bump and droop stops. I keep hearing people complaining about TBs who only have experience with stock TBs and stock suspension configuration. In the development of my Blazeland LT over the last 5 years I experimented with both methods of spring set up and each has its advantages. The extra complications and cost factors involved with coil over conversion is a major concern. I ran a coil over for years and I am back to the TBs. TBs are a good design. Check out the Blazeland website at www.blazeland.us

AxleIke

I'm running aftermarket Tbars. They still suck. I've also got poly bushings. They flex better, but still, the ride is nothing like even a stock set up on a 3rd gen runner or a taco.

Tbars are strong, just, to me, they ride like garbage. If I do any more modification to my IFS, CO's are the direction I'm going.

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

From a physics standpoint why should the TB setup ride or flex worse than CO? Do TBs not really act as ideal springs? TBs would even have less unsprung weight to cycle than a coil spring, though I'm sure the difference is trivial.

cory8926

It seems the benefit of a coil would be that you could get a linear rate spring which I would imagine would be better for compression where as the torsion bars act as progressive springs