Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Hi guys,

So, last December I changed my timing chain out, put 3,000 miles on the motor, and then had a serious coolant leak that you guys helped me through (thanks!). I was back on the road in the summer time, after a few months of taking apart the motor and putting it back again. Now, my coolant leak is gone, but I've developed some kind of oil leak that is annoying.

From what I can tell, it happens after I shut the motor down, which is confusing to me. I park, go inside, then head back out later and see a small puddling, dripping off my steering damper (At first I thought it may be the damper since I had to move it to get the oil pan off....). So today, I took a shop rag to the water pump and front of the head, creating a clean surface, then started the motor, watched it, then shut off the motor and IMMEDIATELY went to look and BAM!....it starts seeping oil.

Here are some photos:

(from underneath - you can see the steering damper with a drop about to depart...)




Where the head and block meet, cleaned up. You can see RTV from my timing chain job last year:










AS SOON AS I SHUT OFF THE MOTOR, IT STARTS SEEPING OUT WHERE THE FRONT OF THE HEAD MEETS THE BLOCK:













Facts:
1) Timing chain was done in last year, didn't have an oil leak here before
2) The front of the head gasket that goes between the head and the timing cover was mangled when I did the job - I cut it out where the head sticks out over the block - it was a clean cut with razor blade and I used RTV in its place.
3) I'm leaking oil and just added a quart today - this could get anoying sooner than later.


So, my question is, why is it happening ONLY when the motor is turned off - I can't find a logical explanation. I watched it while it idled and nothing happened. Then, as soon as I shut it off, I raced back over to look and it started seeping immediately.

And, is it the head gasket? I'm not getting white smoke or milky looking oil.

Is it something I can fix without taking the head off...or the timing cover?

Thanks guys.

Phil

toyospearo

Looks to me like it's the head gasket where the timing components are. There wouldn't be any coolant in that area unless the chain tore through the cover.
Not sure why it would rush out when you shut it down. Could be the oil pressure is concentrated in the cover for a short time while the motor has been recently shut down and the oil finds the leak area but it would do that running or not. It might be that the vibration of the motor scatters the oil enough to look like it is not in one area. Either way it really doesn't matter when it leaks. The matter is it is leaking and it appears to be the head gasket. You could pull off the front timing cover and try to RTV that area again (black RTV not blue) but sooner than later you are going to run into the same problem. I would pull the head, have it shaved and buy a Toyota head gasket and replace it all.
I talked with a guy who came into the shop I work at and he told me there is a marine epoxy you can smear around that area that will stop a head gasket leak like that. I can't recall the name of the epoxy. I will find out what it is this week and get back to you.

92 TOY

My opinion.....Is that blue RTV resistant to OIL?,,,,I thought it was for watery situations....i could be mistaken...maybe it's beginning to break down.
#2...you cut off the "hanging over" piece of head gasket or no? kinda thinking you did and you have a 1/32nd or so of gap that you made up for with RTV.
#3....could it just be gravity finding the open area when the oil is dripping back down after it's shut off and no longer circulating as it does under power?


I could be way off on each and every one of those, but those are my thoughts. I won't be around tonight to see your reply and i'm working the next 2 days ......hope others chime in as well Bud.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks to both Spearo and 92 Toy - I think it is the gasket - it's leaking in the EXACT spot where I cut out the damaged portion - right where it extends to surround the timing chain. I used Blue RTV, and just did a sanity check - it's oil resistant and is recommended for timing covers, water pumps and oil pans

Still stymied by the leak only after the engine stops, and not during. Seems like a force greater than gravity would have to cause it to leak so quickly once the engine is cut.

I really don't want to have to tear it down again this soon - would rather just do it all right on a stand with a rebuild, but that's not in my near future due to space and budget (fingers crossed). I can't say I'd mind an excuse to throw a cam and/or ENGNBLDR head on there.

Anyone else had this happen and is there an "external" fix?

Phil

dhall50

Since i had the same problem I can add what was causing my leak. I too like many messed up the front of my head gasket while installing my timing cover. I tried RTV the first time but had the same problem. Oil pools in the front of the head where the distributor gear sits and when the truck was turned off it would leak until this area(The area with a bolt going into the timing cover below it) went dry. I followed what someone else did here and just removed that bolt and filled it with rtv and made sure the area where the HG use to be is all sealed with the rtv. Someday i will pull the head and fix it the right way but this had worked the lest several thousand miles. I had just recently done the HG job and wasn't willing to do it again so soon.

Another common cause is if you over torqued the head to timing cover bolt. It is prone to cracking the timing cover(Especially if the HG is not there) and that will also cause a leak.

After looking at yours though i would guess its just a bad seal between the head and timing cover. I used ultra gray and let it sit up for 24hrs before starting the motor up.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks! that makes a little more sense. While I don't want to get rid of that bolt, I wonder if I were to take it out, liberally coat the hell out of it in RTV, and re-insert it...would that seal it up? I may have to try this less invasive approach - thanks!

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

when the motor is running there is a vacuum goin on that keep the leak from making a mess. I say pull the head and do it right. When ever i r&r a timing chain I always pulled the head. It was extra insurance to do it right and not have leaks. Also. You may want to replace the heater bypass hose thats under the intake manifold. Its very swollen from the oil leak and will rupture soon.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Great to know - thanks!

And thanks for spotting the hose issue - that whole under the mani area is a mess! I have gaksets for the mani and had planned to take it out, clean it, clean the injectors, etc in 2011. I'll try the hidden bolt plug up idea first and see how that goes first I think.

Head work is not an option right now for me :/

snobdds

That area is hard to seal up with the head gasket cut away.

Here is a trick I used to seal that area up once a long time ago when I did my timing chain without removing the head. I cut out the old head gasket because it was bent up like yours. Then I went to the parts store and bought a sheet of that stuff you can make your own gaskets with, the type with the metal on one side. I made a template of the bottom of the head and cut it out. Then I took some FIPG and put some on both sides of the gasket and put the metal side of the gasket opposite the timing chain cover. Put it back together and it held for a good 30,000 miles before I redid my engine.

I know the best way would have been to just replace the head gasket, but the compression was so good on the motor I did not want to mess with it. It will help seal untill you get a new head and can redo the head gasket the right way.

Hope that helps.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks! It does help - and makese complete sense. I am just looking for a non-invasive fix that doesn't require the timing cover to come off a fourth time in 12 months Will try the hidden bolt hole plug up solution and see how that fares.

iselloil

Blue sealant is not for oil areas.Thats silicon base and oil will push past it. FIPG)BLACK FOR ENGINES OIL PANS &TIMING COVERS Toyota part #00295-00103 is what was to be used.Black permatex would have worked.That tab you cut off is suppose to have sealer under it.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

You sure about that?

http://www.permatex.com/products/aut...sket_Maker.htm

xxxtreme22r

if it were me, I'd use ultra black

http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...sket_Maker.htm

But I had that same issue when I pinched the headgasket when I did the first timing chain job on mine before I wound up rebuilding it. Leaked like no tomorrow. And that was with it just pinched. I never was able to fix it. Till I rebuilt it and new headgasket.

BTW almost all RTV is silicone based. Including Toyota's own FIPG which happens to be used on the oil pan gasket.

iselloil

Blue for water black for oil.

89pickumup

i know this threads a lil old but wanted to say jb weld makes a great bandaid for gasket leaks its tuff stuff
i just clean with brake parts cleaner apply it let set start vehicle look for more leaks and clean and apply as needed ive drove alot of miles on jb weld fixes
they also make a quick set version called jb quick i like it better cause the fast set time makes second coats a breeze only downside being the the quick is not as strong
for little fixes like a oil leak it bonds well drys strong and should hold up better for ya then trying to smear rtv on it
should hold ya over till ya get time to fix it right
ive used it on small block chevys after rebuilds where their oil pan and timing cover meet always seem to want to leak there and just left em that way with no problems and small leaks on valve cover gaskets in a pinch lol
of course this is assuming you dont feel like taking it apart again lol