performance mods

ads86runner · 09-01-2006, 05:07 AM

The 22re in my 86 needs some help so im ready to start with the modsand hopefully improve gas mileage as well(18mpg). Where do i go first? Air induction (which one),high flow cat, muffler, 2.25 exhaust, cam. Some of you guys already done these mods let me know where to start. Money is tight so wont be able to do it all at one time. Thanks for the input!!!

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ovrrdrive · 09-01-2006, 06:13 AM

Personally, I felt my biggest gains were from the exhaust mods, but I had already modded a bunch of other things first so it may have been that the exhaust mods simply allowed the others to perform better.

No matter what you do the 22re will still be a 22re. It will improve some, but it is still underpowered no matter what you do...

That said, the following was copied from 4x4 Wire and is a great read...

http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showfl...5&o=14&fpart=1

Quote:

Note to Readers EB (Ted) is a retired machinist who visits us here. He's been also been known to sneak around ovals in the Portland OR area, and wreak havoc with his Z06.

>>>*I said I would offer a few tips on improving the power output of the little 2.4L Toyota engine. For this discussion we are speaking of the 1985 and later engine design, it is the most efficient of all in this series.

So here goes.

The one trouble I had writing this was it started to sound a bit like an advertisement for parts I supply. The problem there is that of course those are the parts I use.

So right off the bat, remember that there are many good venders with many good items, and they may well be every bit as good as what I have. I will say there are quite a few builders out there that this old man spends as much time chasing as vice-versa. In any event, I will try to be as generic as possible.

*******

Our goal is to assemble the POTENTIAL to produce up to 150 horsepower, but what we usually really want is to improve the torque output within the normal operating powerband.

The basics include a solid short block, a sound cylinder head, an upgrade camshaft, and an improved exhaust system. From this point, we simply tease several areas.

Improvements to the fueling system can also help, but they are way down the list as to real gains, so I will not go into that, other than make sure the system is clean and the mixture proper.

*******

One very important step is to verify the quench before final assembly, which is often overlooked. Quench is the close collision of the piston head to the flat part of the combustion chamber. Nearly all aftermarket pistons are destroked by about .3mm or around .012" or so. This varies a tad between brands, so installing a new piston set will probably reduce the piston height. Then if your machinist resizes the connecting rods, you just lost even more deck height because they clip the cap and rod to do it. (Well, they do if they are doing it right.)

********

There is only one real way to check for quench, you must assemble the short block and measure. So you will need one spare set of connecting rod bearings, they are cheap since all 1975 to 1995 take the same part, only the undersize varies depending on if your crankshaft is machined or not.

Then if the machine shop regrinds the crankshaft, you really could end up with 4 different deck heights in the same engine, unless they index the crankshaft stroke and most simply do not. By the time they get to, say, .030" undersize and have resized all of the connecting rods, it can stack up to a lot, and this just kills power output.

So "dummy" up the short block, and measure how close the piston is to the top of the block. A straight edge and a feeler guage makes this easy. We want it to be zero deck, or as close to that as we can get. Stock, the piston does protrude by about .006" or so, if yours does, this is fine.

The goal here is to get them all to as close to the same as possible and up where they belong.

If this measurement shows the piston is down from the top of the deck at TDC, you will need to disassemble and correct this by having the block decked. Tight quench means you can run proper ignition timing without pinging. A sloppy quench will create more pinging at less timing that the tighter compression ratio will, the blast effect of the close collision atomizes the mixture and distributes it better across the chamber.

Be sure to keep track of exactly how much is surfaced off the engine block, this is important I will get to why later.

********

Right here I will insert one theory I have that is at odds with almost ALL other engine rebuilders. This is knife-edging the counterweights. I say this is exactly backwards.

Think of a V-bottomed boat, then a flat bottomed boat. Which one takes less power to get up on top? The knife-edged counterweight slides into the oil, and leads with much more surface area. Oil is kinda clingy stuff, even when hot. Instead, we smooth and blend the leading edge leaving it square. There is a pressure wave ahead of the flat surface, oil moves aside. The shaft spins more freely with less drag. I personally quit doing the knife-edging in circa 1990 on our stock car engines, the result was a drop in oil temp of about 15° on the endurance engines, ALL of them. One gain however might be in weight but the mass is so close to centerline I feel it is of little consequence.

We just use stock crankshafts on our Toyota engines, or our new performance ones, which are really just a nice forged steel upgrade, and so far they work fine.

Here is where I feel is a nice little gain, take some time and some sanding rolls and polish roughness out of the leading edge of the counterweights, and remove any odd flashings and casting flaws on the shaft before you have it remachined. You will see lots of them if you look. Don't get carried away here, but it can help to keep the oil cooler which isn't horsepower but is durability. You were going to rebalance anyway, right?

*********

Engine size is the next concern. Those with the strokers love them, and if in the budget, go for it. (Mosk cheats, stuffing cubic inches down the top of a big old stroker isn't fair to the rest of us on a budget...*LOL**) That stuff is cool but it would break the bank for many of us. We are trying to be cheap here since the kids are standing around yelling about silly stuff like food, and the wife is waving some piece of paper that says electric bill, whatever that is.

Of course, seeing the number of ladies buying engine parts over the last few years, it just may be HER that is out there overhauling the 4 Runner, so why don't you get up off your dead..(well, you know) and go help her?

*You can find out who won the football game later.

*heehee.

********

Normally the block will require rebore, always bore as little as possible to assure round and straight bores. There is no reason to overbore to gain cubic inches, it does gain some of course but about a tablespoon or so is all. You will be better off with the cylinder walls as thick as possible for rigidity, more power can be lost in frictionals than can be gained in size by boring, so I feel around .040" is maximum without checking out the cylinder walls thicknesses carefully.

*******

Now both Darin's and Larry's engines are .060", but I went through perhaps a dozen blocks to find some I would use there. That is a PIA. The fun part with both of those was that the pistons were NOT destroked, so after decking the blocks they kinda stuck out a tad too much. Putting the head on with it that way would be embarrassing and get me phone calls. So I simply milled off some of the outer raised circle on the piston head, effectively raising the compression ratio by about .5 to one plus the gain from the overbore, those both came out to a shade over 10.1:1 which made me nervous. They haven't sent me any nasty emails though, so it seemed to work. This is easy to do if you can find the non-destroked pistons anymore, if you can, email me and let me know where.

*******

So now we have the block assembled, the deck height is zero to less than plus .006", and deck is flat, straight, and perfectly smooth. Bag the short block in plastic, let's go look at the cylinder head.

I prefer the Topline head casting because when I measure the ports, I get right at 5cc larger than most stock ones, and they seem to be more consistant. Your stock head will work fine if it is sound, but you must measure the thickness to know exactly how much metal has been surfaced off. Again, this is important, and I will also get to that later.

*******

Larger valves open up the "window" or area available for flow. They also change the angle of the flow cone as fuel and air enter the cylinder. It is also an improvement in the goodie, which is the initial blast effect past the head of the valve as it opens. Think of your finger on the end of a garden hose, and the spray you see as you take it off, and then it slows to a steady stream.

Exactly the same thing happens as the intake valve cracks open, and this is the best and most important portion of cylinder fill.

So larger is a big asset here for many reasons, following this logic we would think as large as possible would be even better, right? Well, no, too large then creates a velocity drop and now physical energy must be used to recover the flow, too large can actually cost power for the intent of this piece.

We use .033" larger intakes and .024" larger exhaust valves. Since our goal is to add power without paying for some Exxon executive's family vacation, this size is about right.

Of course we must now machine the valve seats larger to get them in there, and we need to make a cut under the seat to open up the bowl. Plus we need to get the valve spring assembled hieght to 1.594"-1.610" so the rocker arm doesn't go out of geometry and things don't bang into things.

To the machine shops that insist in sticking an .060" thick shim under a stock valve spring, I say they should be shot and killed and their bones hung in the Sun as a warning. The setup will handle about .480" lift without mashing stuff, stick in an .060" thick shim and we are now at around .420" or less, then bolt on a .430" lift camshaft? *Well, I bet you can see the problem. At least a half dozen came though our doors this year with exactly that situation.

We use 1.610" installed most of the time, since we are next going to be using a higher lift camshaft. The base circle will be slightly reduced, even on a brand new camshaft. It has to be to keep the rocker arm installed angle close to arc centerline.

We don't bother to port the StreetRV head versions, porting does add power but it begins to move up the RPM band quickly, we are still looking for economy and inexpensive power gain, so porting and racing is a different article.

One trick we do use is dimpling up in the bowl dome. We use a 3/8ths die grinding tip to create little dips or dents, all this does is collect fuel droplets. The idea is to take advantage of the blast effect as the valve opens. Air is easy to move, you see, the fuel would rather not so we just force it a bit. This seems to work, and seems to have stopped some of the hesitation we noticed with the very early setups. Then notice that little vortex ledge under the head of the intake valve. It is there to twist the mixture, and increase velocity at slow speeds. Fuel tends to head that way, there are some tiny gains to be had in the mid to upper RPM ranges by changing this to a slight trough. DON'T cut it out of there, you will be sorry unless you are racing or supercharged/turbo'd.

Oh, go ahead if you wish...*LOL**.

On the camshaft profile, if carbed you may run more duration, EFI is sensitive so about 222° @ .050" lobe lift is the most we will use and I prefer around 218°. The one design we do run the full 222° duration on is our little 261C, and it is only .410" gross valve lift. But that is a fat lobe little critter that is intended to offer almost instant off-throttle torque, folks who haul loads or have huge tires like that one. Still, it has that chattery idle, nature of the creature.

Lifts to .430" stay well within the geometry of the top end, for street use we prefer a bit less. You will need a slightly stronger valve spring, not much, about 5% although stock will work and run fine if in good shape, as long as you don't go teisting her to redline everywhere you go. The only way to know on your valve springs is to test them, if they won't hit 60# at seat, replace them. The stock springs are darned good pieces, though, I have seen them test just fine at 200,000 miles.

Now some venders offer split duration profiles, usually more lift/duration on the exhaust side. This has only the effect off moving the powerband to higher RPM's, we do not advise or produce anything other than single patterns, and I am currently working on a design that has much LESS lift/duration on the exhaust side and it looks extremely promising for a high-torque and economy design. (Don't ask, it's months away still.)

One trick with the cam design is lobe shape. Several venders offer many designs based on the factory lobe shape that will add valve action. We found that while this did add power, it also can add noise due to the mechanical action.

So we used a different lobe shape entirely on our current favorite design, the sudden dropoff on the factory lobe design was almost entirely eliminated. This let us produce a profile that is fairly quiet and short duration @ .050" lobe lift, and still hit .425" gross valve lift and add area under the curve.

*********

Now we are almost ready to set the head on, it is time to think of valve timing. This also gets overlooked a lot. Let's assume we decked the block by .013" to get the quench back and we are dropping on a brand new head with our personal choice of camshaft design, got the big valves all setup and in place by our favorite machine shop we trust.

We need to correct the valve timing. The easy way to do this is to go back and machine .007" off the head, to get to a total of .020" removed. The reason is now we can drop a 3 position crank gear on in the "A" position, this moves the valve timing ahead by the 2° of the cam movement we just lost due to surfacing. Or we can invest in an adjustable cam gear, that works too and lets us experiment a bit.

All of this is well within the system's ability to compensate so emissions are easy to pass, we don't need to spend a pile on larger injectors, etc.

But now we need to think about the exhaust system. Improving the exhaust system is number one as far as freeing up usuable power, it doesn't "make" any at all. But the factory needed a quiet, smooth, and responsive engine because the driver might be a little old lady going to the store in Hawaii, or a young fellow driving around at 5000 ft altitude in Colorado. So they compensated for this, and for ground clearence on some vehicles.

The best setup cost wise we have found is to use the excellent factory exhaust manifold, then increase the pipe size to 2" all the way to the muffler, yep, the cat, too. Then we increase again to 2 1/4" on exit all the way back.

This creates a bit of directional flow and frees up power, it fairly quiet and smooth.

So here is a recap, like I said, simple and basic stuff, and in the budget.

Tight short block.
Quench set to zero/+.006"
Larger valves and mods.
Single pattern cam, 222° or less @ .050", .430" or less lift.
Restore accurate valve timing.
Improve exhaust flow.

No real surprises here, easy to do, cost should be less than $1500 including the paint. This combination WILL make 140+ H/P and I have seen tests that touch 150 now.

The gains are simple, the larger bore increases compression slightly once the deck height is back to zero, the mild head surfacing does the same. The engine is now right at 9.7-9.8 to one static, still good for regular fuel. The airflow increase is about 6-7%, the flow cone is improved. The largest gain is in the larger area added by the cam profile, and this creates a need for the improved exhaust system to take advantage. Tuning settings remain stock.

Easy stuff you can do yourself with simple hand tools and a book, if the first time though ask questions so you don't mash the timing chain tensioner or ruin your timing cover by forgetting the "secret" bolt in the front.

*And there is a wealth of good information right here on this site, with genuine experts that will answer questions. I know, I learn things almost every day here.......*EB

**aviator** · 09-01-2006, 07:09 AM

If cash is tight I'd start with the induction side, a drop in K&N air filter will give you a performance and economy boost and will save you money long term [no more air filters to buy] however if you have a little extra cash go for the cone filter kit for an even greater performance/mileage gain. The next step would be to go for a free flow cat/muffler and 2.25 exhaust system. If this is a daily driver for tires choose a good quality all-terrain truck tires like BFG ATs [their square profile looks fantastic under the old body style IMO] and the have good traction and puncture resistance. Mud tires have a lot of rolling resistance which kills fuel economy on the road.
A switch to synthetic oils at the next change will help too.
Aviator

norcalsvx · 09-01-2006, 08:19 AM

header, intake, exhaust, doa head

Sonofmayhem · 09-01-2006, 01:52 PM

switch your diff and tranny fluids to syn. too, ive heard that when you do this Mileage goes up by 1-3 mpg. but ive never checked or done this. get a drop in k&n and mod your airbox, get a dynomax cat back, and a magnaflow cat. For best gains have everything welded, and then a lc header, and a lc cam. itll be a screamer.

Elton · 09-01-2006, 02:07 PM

my 22re i did a custom intake with a k&n fipk a lce header full 2.25'' exhaust with a carsound hiflow cat and a flowmaster delta 40 it had good power for having 167k miles on a stock motor im sure if you did some mild head work and a cam it help more

ads86runner · 09-01-2006, 06:22 PM

I might sound like a dummy but what do you mean by "mod your air box."

ovrrdrive · 09-01-2006, 07:23 PM

This is just my opinion of course, but to all of you guys recommending a K+N air filter you do realize that the gains are amazingly minimal and you are going to let a lot more dirt into your engine right?

You may add .5hp but that is subjective, but you will definitely let more dirt in. That is proven.

They just aren't worth it.

**aviator** · 09-01-2006, 08:57 PM

I really have'nt noticed a lot of "dirt" getting in at all but then I don't wheel in sand as some folks with this issue do. Regardless my personal experiance has been totally positive with the K&N product much better than any stock paper type anyway.
Aviator

dcg9381 · 09-01-2006, 10:08 PM

They do let more dirt in, they also let more air in.. On a totally stock motor, I'd see no reason to do it, but if you're doing exhaust work, a mild cam, and maybe a little head work, it's a good place to pick up more than .5hp.

The filters are oiled for a reason... Oily dirt is a lot less harmful than dry dirt.

Keep the filters clean regularly and oiled, I wouldn't expect it to be a problem..

The one down side to the FIPKs and cone filters - if you have any sort of mass air element that's open in the intake track, it's going to collect oily crap. I saw a 3.4L 4runner that ran lean simply because the FIPK crapped up one of the sensors.

Sonofmayhem · 09-01-2006, 11:51 PM

its called an outerware Desert trucks use cone and giagantic filters... what i mean by mod your airbox, is when i took a look at mine, i removed a hose, and a shield and instantly felt power, but i sucked in water so next time ill add a snorkle. if they made foam filters i would get one.

ovrrdrive · 09-02-2006, 03:48 AM

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

That's a good read for anyone that is comtemplating one of these filters...

javadoody · 09-03-2006, 08:25 AM

the nice thing about this site is that you're going to get a tons of info, personal favorites, etc. that you can use to research what you think works best for your type of driving.
the advice on fluids is right on. you have to change anyway, so when time comes look to a synthetic for everything--it'll cut friction. personally, i signed on for six months as an amsoil dealer and bought everything i'd need for a couple of years for the yota and my wife's jeep. saved tons.
"wax on, wax off"--can't beat getting more air in, and speed the exhaust out. header is a must, but in the interests of $$, mod the air box first (i went with amsoil for the filter based on specs) and at least start with a 2.25 cat back. again, i chose a flowmaster 50 for performance and quiet highway running. but pick up a header ASAP--it's primary. ask for advice here, watch ebay, or buy outright.
then get ready to drop some serious cash or spend some wrench time. but as these guys will tell ya, it's a labor of love. and their more than willing to help out with good, solid advice.

dcg9381 · 09-03-2006, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovrrdrive

No matter what you do the 22re will still be a 22re. It will improve some, but it is still underpowered no matter what you do...

I'll bet I can build one that isn't underpowered... :-)

ovrrdrive · 09-03-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcg9381

I'll bet I can build one that isn't underpowered... :-)

Well now, that all depends on exactly what your idea of underpowered is doesn't it?

The 22re will always be an I4 engine no matter what you do to it and your expectations of it need to be those of an I4 engine.

It will never give you V8 power if that is what you are looking for.

And if it gets close it won't last long whereas a V8 will do it all day long being run hard for years.

The 22re in my truck has a very close expiration date...

dcg9381 · 09-03-2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovrrdrive

Well now, that all depends on exactly what your idea of underpowered is doesn't it?

OK.. Would you say it's possible to build a 200 rwhp (230-240 flywheel) hp 2re-series motor that retains reasoanble reliability?

ovrrdrive · 09-04-2006, 05:23 AM

It may be possible, but you're going to spend a mint on it and it won't last very long...

It's a lot more feasible to take any stock V8 that makes that amount of horsepower though and drop it in. Hop up parts are much cheaper and the engines are designed to make that kind of power so they last.

Once you get the swap done replacement brand new longblocks from Chevy are only $1600 that make 290hp/320 lbs...

It just doesn't make sense to spend $4k on a 22re to try to get to 200hp when there are so many V8's around...

ads86runner · 09-04-2006, 09:44 AM

Will going to full synthetic w/163k on my 22re cause any problems. Any specific header or any one to stay away from. I found a JT outfitter header on ebay for $160.00. What ya think!!!

dcg9381 · 09-04-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovrrdrive

It may be possible, but you're going to spend a mint on it and it won't last very long...

It's a lot more feasible to take any stock V8 that makes that amount of horsepower though and drop it in. Hop up parts are much cheaper and the engines are designed to make that kind of power so they last.

Once you get the swap done replacement brand new longblocks from Chevy are only $1600 that make 290hp/320 lbs...

It just doesn't make sense to spend $4k on a 22re to try to get to 200hp when there are so many V8's around...

Fair enough.
Jeff Mosk has a 240hp 22re, which seems to be reasonably relable.

22r internals handle 200 hp all day long. 200 is the point where forged piston become necessary (IMHO).... But internals are very solid.

A v8 is a less expensive motor, but the cost of a supporting driveline, fabrication, cooling system, is expensive.

I think you can build a 180hp or above 22re for under 2k with an existing core. Main ingredents:
22rte cast pistons, t3-t4, engnbldr valves w mild head work, megasquirt.... Its the power beyond that which gets real expensive.....

javadoody · 09-04-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ads86runner

Will going to full synthetic w/163k on my 22re cause any problems. Any specific header or any one to stay away from. I found a JT outfitter header on ebay for $160.00. What ya think!!!

the synthetic won't CAUSE any problems, but you may see more leaks, usage, etc. as it cleans things out. it can highlight problems you already have. any drips or consumption now?
as far as the header, i'll also let someone with knowledge of JT respond. i got my NWOR off ebay for around 125 a couple of years ago.

ads86runner · 09-06-2006, 01:58 PM

O.K. Been reading alot of older and some newer post on the airbox mod. Most of the mods are being done to 87 and up 22res. I did see an old post saying that the 85 and 86 boxes are the same, and he stated a mod wasnt needed and airflow was good at stock location. So, should i still move it to the other side or leave it stock. Anybody with a 86 done the mod and what advise can you give me. Ordering NWOR header this week and swapping in airfilter.

09-01-2006, 07:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
aviator Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: COTKU,Ontario,Canada Posts: 7,469	If cash is tight I'd start with the induction side, a drop in K&N air filter will give you a performance and economy boost and will save you money long term [no more air filters to buy] however if you have a little extra cash go for the cone filter kit for an even greater performance/mileage gain. The next step would be to go for a free flow cat/muffler and 2.25 exhaust system. If this is a daily driver for tires choose a good quality all-terrain truck tires like BFG ATs [their square profile looks fantastic under the old body style IMO] and the have good traction and puncture resistance. Mud tires have a lot of rolling resistance which kills fuel economy on the road. A switch to synthetic oils at the next change will help too. Aviator __________________ Silver 1994 Hilux Xtra cab 4x4 3.0 K&N cone filter, ported MAF, advanced timing, oversize exhaust, free flow cat, "rumble" muffler custom covered SR5 seats, map lights, factory AC tv4184 style black interior conversion started mods to come... header, custom centre console, stereo upgrade tinted windows Founding member 1972TLC fan club - Get well soon Mary Toyota Hilux... Get in or Get out of the way.

09-01-2006, 08:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
norcalsvx Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Alpine--GRASS valley, CA Posts: 2,132	header, intake, exhaust, doa head __________________ 1994 toy 22re- http://www.yotatech.com/f86/nocalsvx-s-94-toy-104593/ 2006 Subaru Forester XT -some mods/awd 5spd 1994 Subaru SVX- hwy runner 84 RX7- drag car build

09-01-2006, 01:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sonofmayhem Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Springs, Colorado Posts: 1,700	switch your diff and tranny fluids to syn. too, ive heard that when you do this Mileage goes up by 1-3 mpg. but ive never checked or done this. get a drop in k&n and mod your airbox, get a dynomax cat back, and a magnaflow cat. For best gains have everything welded, and then a lc header, and a lc cam. itll be a screamer. __________________ 4.3/5.0 Do iT! Last edited by Sonofmayhem; 09-01-2006 at 01:54 PM.

09-01-2006, 02:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Elton Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Siletz,Oregon Posts: 10,647	my 22re i did a custom intake with a k&n fipk a lce header full 2.25'' exhaust with a carsound hiflow cat and a flowmaster delta 40 it had good power for having 167k miles on a stock motor im sure if you did some mild head work and a cam it help more __________________ My Truck 98 4runner SR5 3.4L 5spd 4x4 E-Locker Mods Mom 07 Tundra d-cab limited 5.7L 4x4 auto sister 92 pickup SR5 X-cab 3.0L 5spd 4x4 Papa 89 Pickup SR5 X-cab 4x4 3.0L 5spd/98 4runner SR5 4x4 auto 3.4L R.I.P 91 4runner SR5 4x4 3.0L 5spd Totaled 5/13/06 My Wreck

09-01-2006, 06:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
ads86runner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ruffin, NC Posts: 160	performance mods I might sound like a dummy but what do you mean by "mod your air box." __________________ 89 Toyota 4runner-dlx-4cyl.AT,2.25 exhaust w/high flow cat and flowmaster-31x10.50x15 spector a/t fact. wheels new single stage paint,james dean creation stripe kit ,vinyl floor,spray in bedliner in rear cargo area 07 Tacoma Crew Cab-TRD-Grillcraft, 2.5in lift,tint,viper-remote start/alarm,

09-01-2006, 07:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
ovrrdrive Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,775	This is just my opinion of course, but to all of you guys recommending a K+N air filter you do realize that the gains are amazingly minimal and you are going to let a lot more dirt into your engine right? You may add .5hp but that is subjective, but you will definitely let more dirt in. That is proven. They just aren't worth it. __________________ '95 xcab - SOLD '03 4runner V8 SR5 completely stock

09-01-2006, 08:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
aviator Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: COTKU,Ontario,Canada Posts: 7,469	I really have'nt noticed a lot of "dirt" getting in at all but then I don't wheel in sand as some folks with this issue do. Regardless my personal experiance has been totally positive with the K&N product much better than any stock paper type anyway. Aviator __________________ Silver 1994 Hilux Xtra cab 4x4 3.0 K&N cone filter, ported MAF, advanced timing, oversize exhaust, free flow cat, "rumble" muffler custom covered SR5 seats, map lights, factory AC tv4184 style black interior conversion started mods to come... header, custom centre console, stereo upgrade tinted windows Founding member 1972TLC fan club - Get well soon Mary Toyota Hilux... Get in or Get out of the way.

09-01-2006, 10:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
dcg9381 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,825	They do let more dirt in, they also let more air in.. On a totally stock motor, I'd see no reason to do it, but if you're doing exhaust work, a mild cam, and maybe a little head work, it's a good place to pick up more than .5hp. The filters are oiled for a reason... Oily dirt is a lot less harmful than dry dirt. Keep the filters clean regularly and oiled, I wouldn't expect it to be a problem.. The one down side to the FIPKs and cone filters - if you have any sort of mass air element that's open in the intake track, it's going to collect oily crap. I saw a 3.4L 4runner that ran lean simply because the FIPK crapped up one of the sensors. __________________ http://www.22REturbo.net

09-01-2006, 11:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sonofmayhem Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Springs, Colorado Posts: 1,700	its called an outerware Desert trucks use cone and giagantic filters... what i mean by mod your airbox, is when i took a look at mine, i removed a hose, and a shield and instantly felt power, but i sucked in water so next time ill add a snorkle. if they made foam filters i would get one. __________________ 4.3/5.0 Do iT! Last edited by Sonofmayhem; 09-01-2006 at 11:52 PM.

09-02-2006, 03:48 AM	#12 (permalink)
ovrrdrive Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,775	http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm That's a good read for anyone that is comtemplating one of these filters... __________________ '95 xcab - SOLD '03 4runner V8 SR5 completely stock

09-03-2006, 08:25 AM	#13 (permalink)
javadoody Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: colorado Posts: 329	the nice thing about this site is that you're going to get a tons of info, personal favorites, etc. that you can use to research what you think works best for your type of driving. the advice on fluids is right on. you have to change anyway, so when time comes look to a synthetic for everything--it'll cut friction. personally, i signed on for six months as an amsoil dealer and bought everything i'd need for a couple of years for the yota and my wife's jeep. saved tons. "wax on, wax off"--can't beat getting more air in, and speed the exhaust out. header is a must, but in the interests of $$, mod the air box first (i went with amsoil for the filter based on specs) and at least start with a 2.25 cat back. again, i chose a flowmaster 50 for performance and quiet highway running. but pick up a header ASAP--it's primary. ask for advice here, watch ebay, or buy outright. then get ready to drop some serious cash or spend some wrench time. but as these guys will tell ya, it's a labor of love. and their more than willing to help out with good, solid advice. __________________ 2003 4x4 taco, 3.4L, 5sp, 4.33 w/ ARB, 3" revtek stolen--1994 4x4 p/u 22re "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."--Mitch Ratliffe, "Technology Review"

09-04-2006, 05:23 AM	#17 (permalink)
ovrrdrive Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,775	It may be possible, but you're going to spend a mint on it and it won't last very long... It's a lot more feasible to take any stock V8 that makes that amount of horsepower though and drop it in. Hop up parts are much cheaper and the engines are designed to make that kind of power so they last. Once you get the swap done replacement brand new longblocks from Chevy are only $1600 that make 290hp/320 lbs... It just doesn't make sense to spend $4k on a 22re to try to get to 200hp when there are so many V8's around... __________________ '95 xcab - SOLD '03 4runner V8 SR5 completely stock

09-04-2006, 09:44 AM	#18 (permalink)
ads86runner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ruffin, NC Posts: 160	Will going to full synthetic w/163k on my 22re cause any problems. Any specific header or any one to stay away from. I found a JT outfitter header on ebay for $160.00. What ya think!!! __________________ 89 Toyota 4runner-dlx-4cyl.AT,2.25 exhaust w/high flow cat and flowmaster-31x10.50x15 spector a/t fact. wheels new single stage paint,james dean creation stripe kit ,vinyl floor,spray in bedliner in rear cargo area 07 Tacoma Crew Cab-TRD-Grillcraft, 2.5in lift,tint,viper-remote start/alarm,

09-06-2006, 01:58 PM	#21 (permalink)
ads86runner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ruffin, NC Posts: 160	O.K. Been reading alot of older and some newer post on the airbox mod. Most of the mods are being done to 87 and up 22res. I did see an old post saying that the 85 and 86 boxes are the same, and he stated a mod wasnt needed and airflow was good at stock location. So, should i still move it to the other side or leave it stock. Anybody with a 86 done the mod and what advise can you give me. Ordering NWOR header this week and swapping in airfilter. __________________ 89 Toyota 4runner-dlx-4cyl.AT,2.25 exhaust w/high flow cat and flowmaster-31x10.50x15 spector a/t fact. wheels new single stage paint,james dean creation stripe kit ,vinyl floor,spray in bedliner in rear cargo area 07 Tacoma Crew Cab-TRD-Grillcraft, 2.5in lift,tint,viper-remote start/alarm,

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