an1176

I folks, I have 94 4x4 22re extended cab. I replaced the engine myself about 6k ago. It has 4.10 gears and I'm running 31x10.50. I bought the truck with a blown motor the reason for the replacement. I purchased a "super stock motor". It was supposed to come with a cam for better performance. Another reason I bought this engine it came with a lifetime warranty. I have a friend with a 91 4x4 22re regular cab. He has 16 inch wheels with tires that measure 30.5" tall and 9.5 wide. I drove his truck the other day and wow it was like he had an extra 20hp. I've always contributed my performance and mpg to tires but after driving his I don't think so. My truck can't hardly pull hills or maintain hwy speeds on windy days. Also no matter how I drive I get around 16mph. What I've done. I checked cel even though my cel wasn't on I had 24 and 31. Both having to do with afm. I had an extra afm so I replaced it. No more codes. I cleaned the throttle body checked my valves, checked timing and it was fine. Still no difference on how it drives. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Welcome to yotatech. There are several reasons why the difference is noticeable between the 2 trucks. Just to get one thing out of the way you have posted this in the wrong section. This area is for 84-85 trucks and 4runners. Perhaps a mod will move it for you.

Where did you buy you motor from and have you contacted them about the lack of performance? Do you know what gears your buddy is running in his rig? There is an inch difference in tires size. May not seem like much but it can make a noticeable difference. Are you both running the same set up? ( plugs, wires, cap, rotor, ignition, exhaust, intake, timing? There are several other factors as well. ). If not that could be it. Do you have the same transmissions? May be a slightly different gear ratio. Is you buddy's truck stock? How do you know he doesn't have some motor work done that he's just keeping to himself. (I may have done that in the past or now on my quad). Really it's stock. Just a strong runner. . Remember these motors are meant for longevity not speed. Low to mid 20's mpg if tuned up and driven well and 200k+ miles. Hard combo to argue with.
The more details we have from you the better we can help. What's your timing at? What grade fuel you running? What plugs cap and rotor? Hard to go wrong with buying it from Toyota on those parts. Toyota spent millions engineering these trucks to run so using their part numbers will make a difference and very little cost difference. Also most older Toyota's at least hate Bosch parts as a rule. Denso, Asian and NGK are great for Toyota's

Good luck hope this helps

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Rereading your post again it is probably just tire size and the weight difference between an regular cab and extra cab. You have more rotting mass in height and width. 31x10.5 vs.30x9.5. And the whole extra cab. See if your buddy will swap you tires for a day. That will help you get an idea of what difference tires will make in size and weight.

an1176

Thanks for the reply. My buddies truck actually used to be mine. I sold it to him to buy an extended cab. Sorry for not posting enough. His truck, which was mine, is bone stock. We both have same tranny and same gears 4.10. When I replaced the engine I got a new distributor, cap, rotor, plugs and wires. The wires I got, sorry can't remember the brand, were the best autozone had which to me looked to thin. I sent them back and they said those were the best out right now. I put them on. Our exhaust is the same but his is about ready for replacement. I actually put a tape measure on the tires his tires measure about 3/4 taller then mine but are an inch narrower. I was running timing at 5 over but now have bumped it put to 10 over. I am planning on swapping wheels and tires this weekend to see if it makes a difference. Any other ideas?

an1176

Sorry for posting on the wrong one. I thought I had it right.

Dingotech

With 4.10 gears, you ought to be running 29 or 30" tires. No bigger than that.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

I would be careful what you do with the timing. You dot want to advance it too far. Detonation come to mind.

If the tires make no difference. Then you owe it to yourself to contact who built the motor for you. Find out what their definition of "super stock" is. What did they do to make it better? Is it just a cam? If so what grind did they put on the cam. Numbers on cams mean very little now a days. Any one can say its a 261 or 268, crawler or race ready. The proof is in the pudding. If you can get them to send you the cam grind spec sheet that would help you determin if it's just the wrong cam for your purpose. You can always call Engnbldr in Portland with your cam spec sheet and go over it with him. But if he didn't build your motor then without that info he may have trouble diagnosing it for you. But definitely call your motor builder and talk to them. That's the best advise you can get at the moment.

Business owners/good managers tend to be proud of the product they put out. Be respectful ask them if they have any ideas or suggestions. And see where that gets you. Ask them what makes this motor so much better than just a stock head.
Remember these motors produce most of their power in the head. So it's porting? Valve size? (If the motor can even use it) Cam? Other smaller factors play in but those are the majors.

You can always down the road tweek some of the smaller items. But that's after you find out if she's running as she is supposed to or not.

an1176

Thank you and that makes since. I know my way around a 22re but I have no idea when it comes to cam. I told the builder I would be running 31x10.50 15s and wanted an engine that pull that. I told him it would be a daily driver with a lot of highway miles. He recommended their super stock engine. I was planning on calling them when I have some time just hadn't had any. What is the best cam for everyday drivability? The truck is my DD and does spend time in the deer woods. I'm not a kid so it's not going mudding or being abused but is seeing off-road use as well. Thanks again

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

After you try and get a cam spec sheet from the builder. Then I would call engnbldr in Portland and tell him what you have vs what you want. The only thing is you should do a head gasket when you do a cam. Others have found ways around but as you know the head bolts hold down your whole top end. I have heard of people using ratchet straps along the side of the head down to the frame rails to keep tension on the gasket. If I did this I would use at least 6 2 front, 2 middle, 2 back. Just because the head is under a lot of pressure and just removing head bolts in the wrong order can warp it.
I do not have enough experience with cams to begin to recommend a individual cam for your uses. Once again call engnbldr in Portland and tell him what you want. He has great customer service and free shipping in the lower 48. That's a win!!

As far as 31's the motor alone is going to be at the edge of ok to turn 31's with 4:10's and have it feel stock. It will turn them all day but your just going to be shifting a bit more. 4:56's are what's usually done for 31's if it's a manual and 4:88's if it's an automatic I believe. I ran 31's and 4:10's on my 85 4runner 5 speed and it does ok. Lost a rod bearing so I am in the middle of a rebuild with engnbldr parts. Head, cam, oil pump, re-ring, timing chain set, bearings through the bottom end.

It should run pretty good when it's back together. But it's still a fairly stock 22re.

I played with flame thrower injectors and the supra AFM on my 93 22re with a NWOR tri y header and 2 1/4" complete exhaust. And stock head. It woke the motor up a little. But it a HP per dollar ratio that you need to find out for yourself what your ok with.

It never hurts to have your injectors cleaned and rebuilt if it's never been done as well as cleaning out the plenum(upper intake) on these motors. I was floored what I found as far as build up goes in mine.

Good luck hope this helps

an1176

Good luck on your build and I forgot to mention I have brand new flame thrower injectors when I did the swap. I got the engine from Oregon engine builders and I've read lots of good things about engnbldr. I'm gonna give them a call soon as I get some specs. I've read all about doing a cam without removing the head. I don't know if I'm brave enough for that. I think I'll just do a head gasket if I decide to do it and replace it all. Anyways I'll know more if I get a chance to put my buddies tires and wheels on my truck this weekend. Hope you build goes well.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, good luck with yours as well.

an1176

Ok so yesterday I spent about 20 minutes on the phone with engnbldr. By the way wonderful people. I described my issues and he seems to think an air leak somewhere. So I went home and went to work with some carb cleaner. All vacuum hoses are fine no leaks that I could find. I'm thinking intake area somewhere and I got the engine to lightly stumble once spraying at the bottom portion of the intake but I can't narrow it down. Any advice on how to narrow down a air leak?

an1176

Just an update for anyone else that might be having performance issues. After talking with engnbldr I was pretty sure I had an vacuum leak somewhere. I have a mechanic friend with a smoke leak detector. We put on the intake and discovered it was leaking air at the cold start injector as well as several small pin holes on the rubber elbow that attaches to the throttle body. Fixed the injector leak and put rtv on the holes on the elbow for now till the new one comes in. Wow what a difference and I still don't have all the holes filled. If anyone is having issues like mine look for a air leak somewhere. Thanks engnbldr!!!

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Glad to hear your getting it worked out. Let us know how your performance is once she's all air tight

Chaser Johndoe

factory trucks with 31's came equipped with 4.10s. please dont give out the wrong info.

an1176

More update. It drives a lot better in town but still sucks some major a** on highway but is better. Still have several leaks in the rubber elbow. I couldn't find the rubber elbow anywhere except on lce website and eBay. The stuff on eBay had the same picture and was a lot cheaper then lce. It's made in China though so I'm kind of leery about it. Anyways it's ordered should be here next week and I'll see how the truck runs after that. By the way if you have access to a smoke leak detector, those things are wonderful for finding leaks, exhaust or intake.

an1176

More update. Ok so I'm waiting on the rubber elbow to come. A buddy has a cold air intake he wasn't using so I thought I'll use it and this should plug all my leaks. I put it on and now the truck is running rich no gains in power a little better throttle response. Idle is kind of messed up. When I pull up to stop sign the idle will bounce between 900 and 400 rpm about 5 or 6 times until it finally settles at around 750. It's never done that before. I'm at a loss I think I have all vacuum leaks resolved now I have a rich condition no improvement if at all to power and not sure on fuel mileage yet. When I did the smoke leak test my egr modulator that sits above the valve cover was leaking vacuum. I took apart and it has a filter and small hole for vacuum I'm sure. Does anyone know if that is supposed to leak as well? If I block my egr can I just eliminate the modulator? Thanks for any help.

an1176

UPDATE....
I really need some help and advise because I'm running out of things to look into. The truck runs fine but lacks power. It acts like you are pulling a boat behind it. It feels as if I have 60% power. I have no idle issues and no indication that anything is wrong except lack of power. No surging, spitting or sputtering. I'll list what I've done;
1. I have several vacuum leaks which caused a rich condition. I've fixed everyone I've found. I found them with a smoke leak detector.
2. I advanced AFM, no difference in power and richened the fuel, now its back to stock.
3. Advanced timing to 10, no difference in performance and richened the fuel, now back to 5.
4. Put on a cold air intake, had some idle issues and richened the fuel, now back to stock set up.
5. Replaced O2 sensor with an old one I had and had an immediate O2 code, old O2 is back on with no code.
6. Checked TPS and it is operating normal and fine.
7. Changed plugs to NGK iridium, changed cap, rotor and wires. No difference what so ever.
8. Changed my 31x10.50 tires to stock. I can't believe this one but no power gains and it runs like it did.
9. Checked compression and all were 176.
10. replaced EGR modulator with a known good one, no difference.
11. Deleted EGR no difference.
12. Checked CAT, it was hollowed out by previous owner.


Things I'm planning on checking;
1. exhaust leak
2. Check O2 sensor again and I have a new Denso on the way.
3. Recheck TPS again
4. Check vacuum lines to make sure they are routed correctly
5. I plan on putting my stock injectors back on and replace the 4 hole injectors from when I did the engine swap.
6. Check fuel pressure regulator. Any one know how to check this?


I'm at a loss with the lack of power and fuel mileage on this truck. Everything I did made truck worse and actually hurt my fuel Mileage. The only time it got a little better was curing all the vacuum leaks. I got a little better throttle response but no gain power and fuel mileage is still around 16 to 17. The truck I feel is still a little rich but not much. Does anyone know where I can find a diagram for vacuum lines for late model RE? If my problem is fuel pressure related, wouldn't his cause spitting, sputtering, or surging? Again any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm at a loss.... Thanks for all the advise and replies.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

What size is the exhaust. These motors run best with a certain amount of back pressure. The magic number seems to be between 2" and 2 1/4" unless there are a crap ton of mods done. Vacuum leaks can cause dig drops in power though. Along with exhaust leaks. Those are the 2 big killers in power.

Are you comparing the power to another Toyota? Or does it just seems like there needs to be more power? These motors came stock around 116 break HP on a perfect day. So by the time it hits the wheels it's not much.

an1176

It's stock exhaust and yes I'm comparing it to another 4x4 re. Same gears, tranny, tires and so on. Only difference between mine and the other truck is mine is extended cab. Any vacuum leak you can think of that won't show with a smoke leak detector? Thanks for the reply