rangerruck

just got a hint of this, from reading another thread here; that older engines need this in their motor oil.
http://blog.motorists.org/warning-if...oil-carefully/
http://www.zddplus.com/
If you have an engine that uses a flat tappet cam system, you need an oil additive called zddp, generally from 1987 , and before.
WELL; 22 r and re engines have been around since about 82?... and re engines lasted until 95. So do our little yota engines, and other sizes of yota engines as well, use flat tappet cams, or hydraulic/roller type cams?

myyota

Ive never heard any mention of this before, but i think if you use a good quality motor oil that you won`t have any problems.

4runnerteen

No its not required. Run Full synthetic and you will have more protection then zddp.

iamsuperbleeder

wander if Toyota put that in the engine from the factory

sounds like a marketing scam to me... someone just out to make a dollar by convincing people that YOUR MOTOR IS DOOMED!!! unless you use their product



the 22r and 22re's regularly reach 300k plus on dino oil and nothing more...


my $0.02

flyingbrass

Good question, rangerruck.

In 22R/RE's the rocker pads ride directly on the cam lobes, so we're flat, not roller. I don't know anything about 86-95 Toyota V6 engines.

Reduction of ZDDP is allegedly also a cause of accelerated wear of other components in more modern engines, thrust washers being an example.

I'm aware of the situation. It is a well-known concern. Still learning and wondering myself.

flyingbrass

They did using older oil. That doesn't mean they will using what's commonly available today.

flyingbrass

The heavier weight Mobil 1 synthetics have adequate ZDDP. So do Redline synthetics and some other oils. This isn't an issue of synthetic, part synthetic or dino. It's about the level of ZDDP and what effects the reduction of it in most modern oils people use may have on our engines.

abecedarian

aww, c'mon rangerruck. you know seafoam is all you need

seriously though, you're joking, right?

Where does the site in your first link get their information that federal regulations are 100,000 miles and are being changed to 120,000 miles? California, with the strictest of regulations, only requires converters last 50,000 miles. And OBDII specs are capable of reporting a failing converter.

And many vehicles built well into the 2000's use flat tappet lifters, i.e. most pushrod equipped vehicles as well as most every cam over follower type vehicle such as hondas, toyotas, etc., though most are also hydraulically adjusted.

rangerruck

Abe I am not sure what the regs have to do with what is needed in a straight pressure/ lifter cam engine, but those regs do seem legit; look at the top of this site- one of the links is to Attorney referrals!!! That would scare me straight, to put correct dope on the site, right there!! and look at some of the other articles posted, on the right side of the page. they cover a wide variety of topics, including engines and cars, driving laws, politics, police activities, etc.

If you do just an imput into a search engine for zddp, you get another wide variety of topics; most of them covering the damage that can be done to older type, straight lifter/cam engines that do not use zddp as an additive.
I am not saying that we all have to go run out and buy some, I am just starting a thread here, to find out info, and from anyone who may know, or have some special insight- is this something we need to add for real, does our current oil have it/ how does synthetic or blends stack up, is this something even needed to be worried about in toyota engines, if this does not effect engines with overhead cams, should we be adding some or not, does the old time parts that are effected by not having this, even exist in Toyota engines, etc., add naseum and now nervous attention...

Marc

My understanding was that it is only a concern when breaking in hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet cams.

When I rebuilt my inboard boat engine I used 30 weight diesel oil for the cam break in.

Crane Cams has some good info on it.

broncbob

Oils use to have much more ZDDP than they do today. The only oils left that have any real amounts left in them are the diesel oils, or some of the motorcycle oils.

I think Valvoline makes a off road only oil with lots of it. It's aimed at the drag race crowd. I don't recommend it for any thing with a cat, as it's supposed to clog them quickly, but I would dump it in for a break in lube.

This being said, the valve train in the 22R-E motors for sure can use all the ZDDP that you can throw at it with today's oils that are legal for on-road use. Diesel oils are your best bet for this. Yes you can get Syn. diesel oils for you fake oil types.

I run Rotella T in every thing I own.

89 Toyota 22RE, 15-40 dino
90 Bronco 5.slow, 15-40 dino
02 Suzuki bandit 1200, 5-40 fake
81 Honda Goldwing 1100, 15-40 dino
05 Honda TRX 450R, 5-40 fake on crankcase side, 15-40 dino on trans side
06 Yamaha Banshee, 5-40 fake (trans side, it a 2 smoker)

As you can see, I have a few toys to play with, and all but the Bronco has a form of flat tappet cam set up.

iamsuperbleeder

every 5k miles?

how dark is your oil when you change it at that interval?

Teuf

I'll stick with 3k , k.

Guardian_Saint

I use Penzoil and Peak Motor oil... 10-40... Will change to 20-50 when the weather get warmer. So do ya think we can use them 4 stroke SG type? Since the book ask for API SG...

rangerruck

aren't all regular gas motors in vehicles basically 4 stroke?

Teuf

they are 4 stroke

Teuf

Lets see, Intake,compression,power, exhaust, ok a little bing ding and a click r 2.

abecedarian

rangerruck- the valve train is mostly the same from 85-95, and even the 18R and 20R's are quite similar, as is the crankshaft, block, rod, pistons, etc (with the exception of the turbos).
A cutoff of say 87/88 is rediculous since that is in the middle of a run of engine parts that weren't any different before nor after.
So take your source for what it is.
If you want to get 'technical' with specs, check in to the API specs and correlate.
Back then it was what, SF-CC/CD and now it's what?

flyingbrass

I'm not an oil geek, but it this is a real issue well known in many circles. I don't know how much it affects us. Maybe significantly, maybe not. Maybe other additives will eventually equal or even outperform ZDDP.

Feel free to think that newer is always better for what you have. 134a cools better than R12, right?

rangerruck

...I'm not sure, but it is sounding more and more like we could use a little
zddp in our 95 and older engines...