Not the best way to learn about your yota..... :(
05-09-2009, 12:00 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not the best way to learn about your yota..... :(
How to start this.... Well I guess before I start, I should say that my uncle is what I have been calling my master mechanic. He laughs when I say that, but I did not know a lot of stuff about my vehicle before all this.... He has worked on vehicle (on his own, not making money) for a while, and has gotten a degree in aviation technician, so seems to know what he is talking about...
Well.... 2 1/2 weeks ago... I discovered, in a bad way, that my 95 4runner was low on oil. It started knocking. Normally it doesn't tend to leak much oil, but the last time i changed my oil, I used 5w-30 instead of the normal 10w-30. I found out from my uncle that, that could be a reason that it leaked out more then normal (since I dont normally seem to have many problems with oil leaking, and change my oil bout every 3k.). Well anyway, my oil was just about out. So I added a quart and a half (all I had where I was), went and bought a gallon, and poured about a 1/3 in there. Drove around for a little while, and it still did not seem to want to show much oil.... My mind was boggling, and looked underneath and there wasn't THAT much oil around my pan... SO i poured in the rest of the gallon. Needless to say, after letting it sit overnight, it ended up being too much....
Well, it continued to knock, until it got worse, to the point I was not about to drive it. So I parked it and started talkin to my uncle about what to do. He told me to take apart the top end basically. We were going to check valves first (at the time, in hopes it was a valve.). This is a 3vze, so it is a PITA to dis/assemble the top of the engine. So after my first time dissassembling my engine (done disassembling on tues, parked it that monday, and going to school tues and thur during all of this..) we discovered that the cam on my driver side decided to eat my heat shield that is attached to the bottom side of the valve cover.... So we cleaned out all the pieces we could find, and got one from the junkyard for $50, put it in, and reassembled. Wed we started it up, and the enevitable knock was still there... So I said "i quit for now. Will start tomorrow.". So the next day I started REdisassembly on the top end, to discover (after getting the cams and everything out, that we cant just "adjust the valves" on mine. It has springs on top or w/e. So he said to start disassembling the bottom end. So I dropped the pan, discovered I needed to drop the steering, did that, and go it all out. We then found that I had 2 bad rod bearings... the second front, and last (i know #5 was one of them. Might of been front and second to back rods.) So we get it all back together sometime this last week, and attempt to start it, and then come back the next day after trying an hour that night (continually adjusting timing and charging battery), and get it started. After a while we here a slight knocking AGAIN! (at this point I am thinking "I am tired of this...") It had been about 2 weeks. So I take apart the bottom end and have him replace (with me helping) ALL the other rod bearings.... I then got it all back together, and after a WHILE of trying to get the timing right, we get damn close and I drive it for a while (with some sort of leak i think. sounded almost like a train with a spout of pfft sound as I went (faster i went, faster it got.).
THEN IT CAME AGAIN! But this time not as loud. It seemed like an imbetween a knock and tap. And was kinda faint. It seemed to do it when I would be going fast enough, then let off the gas real quick (like going around a corner) and i would only hear it for a second or two. So we took it to the shop, which charged my $60 and the tech later told us it was timed just right or something (My uncle and I looked at each other like "Then wtf did they charge us $60 for??"). I think they did adjust it a couple hairs though, because it does seem to sound a little better, as far as that train sound, etc.
But there is still that tap/knock and the tech said it was the #5 (which was the worse of the 2 rod bearings we first found, it was bout to be thrown out because it was spun pretty much all the way on the opposite side). He also said it had an exhaust leak from the engine (i dont know why because I dont remember ever messing with something that had to do with exhaust....
) and that it was leaking oil, but we already knew that, because the last time we put on the pan we did a bad job with the ultra black I think. My uncle said we will just pick up a gasket, would make it easier anyway.
What i didn't like is the technician even recommended I sell my 4Runner, he said dump some heavy oil in there and sell it. In the mean time baby the hell out of it.....
I have since dumped a whole quart of that heavy duty oil stabilizer in there, and I think it still does that. I was keeping it under 2k rpm, but now about under 2500.. I did decide to see what would happen if I hit the powerband (over 3k), and it KNOCKED LIKE HELL. Like the bearing was still bad....
So my questions to you all..... What the hell should I do.... It has been a stressful and exhausting 2 1/2 weeks. Because I have been going to classes 2 days a week, borrowing my gma van when she not using it to get to the places I need, and all the other crap that goin on...
Any ideas what might be wrong?
Last suggestion my uncle had was I guess there is a pin that connects the piston to the rod?
And why would it all of a sudden get rid of all that oil?
And could my oil pump be bad? Seems like low oil pressure..
I know this is a long post.... but also venting while writing this.... :/
Well.... 2 1/2 weeks ago... I discovered, in a bad way, that my 95 4runner was low on oil. It started knocking. Normally it doesn't tend to leak much oil, but the last time i changed my oil, I used 5w-30 instead of the normal 10w-30. I found out from my uncle that, that could be a reason that it leaked out more then normal (since I dont normally seem to have many problems with oil leaking, and change my oil bout every 3k.). Well anyway, my oil was just about out. So I added a quart and a half (all I had where I was), went and bought a gallon, and poured about a 1/3 in there. Drove around for a little while, and it still did not seem to want to show much oil.... My mind was boggling, and looked underneath and there wasn't THAT much oil around my pan... SO i poured in the rest of the gallon. Needless to say, after letting it sit overnight, it ended up being too much....
Well, it continued to knock, until it got worse, to the point I was not about to drive it. So I parked it and started talkin to my uncle about what to do. He told me to take apart the top end basically. We were going to check valves first (at the time, in hopes it was a valve.). This is a 3vze, so it is a PITA to dis/assemble the top of the engine. So after my first time dissassembling my engine (done disassembling on tues, parked it that monday, and going to school tues and thur during all of this..) we discovered that the cam on my driver side decided to eat my heat shield that is attached to the bottom side of the valve cover.... So we cleaned out all the pieces we could find, and got one from the junkyard for $50, put it in, and reassembled. Wed we started it up, and the enevitable knock was still there... So I said "i quit for now. Will start tomorrow.". So the next day I started REdisassembly on the top end, to discover (after getting the cams and everything out, that we cant just "adjust the valves" on mine. It has springs on top or w/e. So he said to start disassembling the bottom end. So I dropped the pan, discovered I needed to drop the steering, did that, and go it all out. We then found that I had 2 bad rod bearings... the second front, and last (i know #5 was one of them. Might of been front and second to back rods.) So we get it all back together sometime this last week, and attempt to start it, and then come back the next day after trying an hour that night (continually adjusting timing and charging battery), and get it started. After a while we here a slight knocking AGAIN! (at this point I am thinking "I am tired of this...") It had been about 2 weeks. So I take apart the bottom end and have him replace (with me helping) ALL the other rod bearings.... I then got it all back together, and after a WHILE of trying to get the timing right, we get damn close and I drive it for a while (with some sort of leak i think. sounded almost like a train with a spout of pfft sound as I went (faster i went, faster it got.).
THEN IT CAME AGAIN! But this time not as loud. It seemed like an imbetween a knock and tap. And was kinda faint. It seemed to do it when I would be going fast enough, then let off the gas real quick (like going around a corner) and i would only hear it for a second or two. So we took it to the shop, which charged my $60 and the tech later told us it was timed just right or something (My uncle and I looked at each other like "Then wtf did they charge us $60 for??"). I think they did adjust it a couple hairs though, because it does seem to sound a little better, as far as that train sound, etc.
But there is still that tap/knock and the tech said it was the #5 (which was the worse of the 2 rod bearings we first found, it was bout to be thrown out because it was spun pretty much all the way on the opposite side). He also said it had an exhaust leak from the engine (i dont know why because I dont remember ever messing with something that had to do with exhaust....
) and that it was leaking oil, but we already knew that, because the last time we put on the pan we did a bad job with the ultra black I think. My uncle said we will just pick up a gasket, would make it easier anyway. What i didn't like is the technician even recommended I sell my 4Runner, he said dump some heavy oil in there and sell it. In the mean time baby the hell out of it.....
I have since dumped a whole quart of that heavy duty oil stabilizer in there, and I think it still does that. I was keeping it under 2k rpm, but now about under 2500.. I did decide to see what would happen if I hit the powerband (over 3k), and it KNOCKED LIKE HELL. Like the bearing was still bad....
So my questions to you all..... What the hell should I do.... It has been a stressful and exhausting 2 1/2 weeks. Because I have been going to classes 2 days a week, borrowing my gma van when she not using it to get to the places I need, and all the other crap that goin on...
Any ideas what might be wrong?
Last suggestion my uncle had was I guess there is a pin that connects the piston to the rod?
And why would it all of a sudden get rid of all that oil?
And could my oil pump be bad? Seems like low oil pressure..
I know this is a long post.... but also venting while writing this.... :/
Last edited by waskillywabbit; 05-09-2009 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Inappropriate Language removed
05-09-2009, 12:37 PM
#2
Registered User
wow that sucks, but at this point of disassembly and reassembly so many times ide just rebuild or swap in a diff motor because it obvious there a little more probs that just fixing it here and there will do, sorry about your luck, those danm 3vze's
05-09-2009, 12:46 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You've done a lot of work on your truck but I feel like you might have missed a few things. Here's what I would've done:
1) Check the dipstick and fill it up to the line, don't just dump a ton of oil in it without measuring. 5 1/2 quarts of oil is way more than recommended, especially if you still have oil in the engine which I'm sure you did since you didn't mention draining it.
2) Compression check and leakdown test. A compression test would have pin pointed the cylinders that are leaking and also tell you if its leaking from the rings or the valve seals. Leakdown test will tell you how much air is leaking and from which valve. This will help with your oil problem and probably give you an idea of where the knocking is coming from because knocking pistons don't tend to hold compression for too long.
3) This is where the teardown starts. If you still don't know where the problem is, drop the pan and inspect the bearings. If you have spun bearings its best to pull the entire bottom end out of the block and have it all checked for wear and balance. Don't just check the rods, check the main bearings and the journals they sit in also. If you gouged the block you might be out of luck. While you're doing this you might as well check the oil pump and make sure its working properly.
Also, if your crank and/or rods are worn you have two options: new crank/rod or get them sanded down and smoothed. If you get them smoothed, you can't use stock bearings because they'll be the wrong size, you'll have to use calipers to check the radius of each surface and get a bearing the thickness of the difference between the two. It sounds complicated, but put simply you'll have to get a bearing that takes up the extra space caused by the sanding done on the crank/rods.
I typed this pretty quickly, but if you want me to clarify anything let me know.
EDIT: I'd have to agree with Yoterr at this point. You've disassembled it a number of times and the only sure fire way to fix it is to junk the motor for a new one or rebuild it completely (all new bearings, seals, rings, gaskets, etc.).
1) Check the dipstick and fill it up to the line, don't just dump a ton of oil in it without measuring. 5 1/2 quarts of oil is way more than recommended, especially if you still have oil in the engine which I'm sure you did since you didn't mention draining it.
2) Compression check and leakdown test. A compression test would have pin pointed the cylinders that are leaking and also tell you if its leaking from the rings or the valve seals. Leakdown test will tell you how much air is leaking and from which valve. This will help with your oil problem and probably give you an idea of where the knocking is coming from because knocking pistons don't tend to hold compression for too long.
3) This is where the teardown starts. If you still don't know where the problem is, drop the pan and inspect the bearings. If you have spun bearings its best to pull the entire bottom end out of the block and have it all checked for wear and balance. Don't just check the rods, check the main bearings and the journals they sit in also. If you gouged the block you might be out of luck. While you're doing this you might as well check the oil pump and make sure its working properly.
Also, if your crank and/or rods are worn you have two options: new crank/rod or get them sanded down and smoothed. If you get them smoothed, you can't use stock bearings because they'll be the wrong size, you'll have to use calipers to check the radius of each surface and get a bearing the thickness of the difference between the two. It sounds complicated, but put simply you'll have to get a bearing that takes up the extra space caused by the sanding done on the crank/rods.
I typed this pretty quickly, but if you want me to clarify anything let me know.
EDIT: I'd have to agree with Yoterr at this point. You've disassembled it a number of times and the only sure fire way to fix it is to junk the motor for a new one or rebuild it completely (all new bearings, seals, rings, gaskets, etc.).
Last edited by NicCantDecide; 05-09-2009 at 12:48 PM.
05-09-2009, 12:51 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Not to be bad mouthing... but an 'aviation technician' did not know there are wrist pins on the pistons? Lycoming, Rotax, et al ... pistons have wrist pins on the small ends of the rods. I've only seen one 'piston' engine design without wrist pins and that engine design came about in the 80's and disappeared shortly after that (in spite of 350 chevy torque with volkswagen displacement)....
To say things 'blew up' so to speak when going from 5 to 10 oil is ludicrous.
Sounds like you've already got enough time and anguish in the beast to just give up and rebuild it bottom-top-bottom.
To say things 'blew up' so to speak when going from 5 to 10 oil is ludicrous.
Sounds like you've already got enough time and anguish in the beast to just give up and rebuild it bottom-top-bottom.
05-09-2009, 01:26 PM
#5
Registered User
Not to be bad mouthing... but an 'aviation technician' did not know there are wrist pins on the pistons? Lycoming, Rotax, et al ... pistons have wrist pins on the small ends of the rods. I've only seen one 'piston' engine design without wrist pins and that engine design came about in the 80's and disappeared shortly after that (in spite of 350 chevy torque with volkswagen displacement)....
To say things 'blew up' so to speak when going from 5 to 10 oil is ludicrous.
Sounds like you've already got enough time and anguish in the beast to just give up and rebuild it bottom-top-bottom.
To say things 'blew up' so to speak when going from 5 to 10 oil is ludicrous.
Sounds like you've already got enough time and anguish in the beast to just give up and rebuild it bottom-top-bottom.
thread jack, were rebuilding a sweet lyrco 4banger right now
05-09-2009, 02:19 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You've done a lot of work on your truck but I feel like you might have missed a few things. Here's what I would've done:
1) Check the dipstick and fill it up to the line, don't just dump a ton of oil in it without measuring. 5 1/2 quarts of oil is way more than recommended, especially if you still have oil in the engine which I'm sure you did since you didn't mention draining it.
2) Compression check and leakdown test. A compression test would have pin pointed the cylinders that are leaking and also tell you if its leaking from the rings or the valve seals. Leakdown test will tell you how much air is leaking and from which valve. This will help with your oil problem and probably give you an idea of where the knocking is coming from because knocking pistons don't tend to hold compression for too long.
3) This is where the teardown starts. If you still don't know where the problem is, drop the pan and inspect the bearings. If you have spun bearings its best to pull the entire bottom end out of the block and have it all checked for wear and balance. Don't just check the rods, check the main bearings and the journals they sit in also. If you gouged the block you might be out of luck. While you're doing this you might as well check the oil pump and make sure its working properly.
Also, if your crank and/or rods are worn you have two options: new crank/rod or get them sanded down and smoothed. If you get them smoothed, you can't use stock bearings because they'll be the wrong size, you'll have to use calipers to check the radius of each surface and get a bearing the thickness of the difference between the two. It sounds complicated, but put simply you'll have to get a bearing that takes up the extra space caused by the sanding done on the crank/rods.
I typed this pretty quickly, but if you want me to clarify anything let me know.
EDIT: I'd have to agree with Yoterr at this point. You've disassembled it a number of times and the only sure fire way to fix it is to junk the motor for a new one or rebuild it completely (all new bearings, seals, rings, gaskets, etc.).
1) Check the dipstick and fill it up to the line, don't just dump a ton of oil in it without measuring. 5 1/2 quarts of oil is way more than recommended, especially if you still have oil in the engine which I'm sure you did since you didn't mention draining it.
2) Compression check and leakdown test. A compression test would have pin pointed the cylinders that are leaking and also tell you if its leaking from the rings or the valve seals. Leakdown test will tell you how much air is leaking and from which valve. This will help with your oil problem and probably give you an idea of where the knocking is coming from because knocking pistons don't tend to hold compression for too long.
3) This is where the teardown starts. If you still don't know where the problem is, drop the pan and inspect the bearings. If you have spun bearings its best to pull the entire bottom end out of the block and have it all checked for wear and balance. Don't just check the rods, check the main bearings and the journals they sit in also. If you gouged the block you might be out of luck. While you're doing this you might as well check the oil pump and make sure its working properly.
Also, if your crank and/or rods are worn you have two options: new crank/rod or get them sanded down and smoothed. If you get them smoothed, you can't use stock bearings because they'll be the wrong size, you'll have to use calipers to check the radius of each surface and get a bearing the thickness of the difference between the two. It sounds complicated, but put simply you'll have to get a bearing that takes up the extra space caused by the sanding done on the crank/rods.
I typed this pretty quickly, but if you want me to clarify anything let me know.
EDIT: I'd have to agree with Yoterr at this point. You've disassembled it a number of times and the only sure fire way to fix it is to junk the motor for a new one or rebuild it completely (all new bearings, seals, rings, gaskets, etc.).
2. I did a compression check on every cylinder except the back passenger one. All was good from what I could tell. It did not leak very much at all. It was EXTREMELY slow, which i was told is normal.
3. How would you check the oil pump? Pressure check by the oil filter?
abe, I need to go back to read my post, but it should have said he was the one who DID say that it could be a wrist pin. I didn't know what it was. He was explaining it to me. Think its possible?
post with other questions or suggestions, besides the obvious engine swap/rebuild....
Thanks so far though...
Last edited by Gokumono; 05-09-2009 at 02:21 PM.
05-09-2009, 02:30 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
I'll go back an re-read your original post and see if I missed or misinterpreted something.
And if you would be so kind, re-read your posts and reply without things that aren't particularly relevant to your engine operation.
Trending Topics
05-09-2009, 03:23 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No hard feelings abe. Don't worry about it. Got enough on my mind to even think about worrying about that. lol.
O, I was told it was the one on the driver side.... Its possible.... And it has to be the PITA one doesnt it? ...... ugh.... Ill give it a test as soon as I can get a chance.
And without starting the engine, or it being warm ( i just continually did 1 sec bursts without the engine being warm since i dont think we even had the timing right at that time), but i had like 140 something for all but 1 or 2 which were 130 something. Not sure I did it fully right though. first because of not being warm, second because I guess you are suppose to hold it for one longer burst?
None of them really seemed to leak. I was lookin at it for a minute and only saw a couple psi difference....
And without starting the engine, or it being warm ( i just continually did 1 sec bursts without the engine being warm since i dont think we even had the timing right at that time), but i had like 140 something for all but 1 or 2 which were 130 something. Not sure I did it fully right though. first because of not being warm, second because I guess you are suppose to hold it for one longer burst?
None of them really seemed to leak. I was lookin at it for a minute and only saw a couple psi difference....
05-09-2009, 03:26 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
to do a 'proper' compression test, all the spark plugs need to be removed, the throttle needs to be held open and it cranks for a few seconds (on each cylinder) for the peak reading
05-09-2009, 03:28 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
05-09-2009, 07:38 PM
#14
Registered User
First I want to say I have felt a similar frustration from similar circumstances - a lot of work done and re-done to attempt to correct a situation I may have created for myself, with the kicker being that after all the work it STILL isn't right. Sucks, I know - been there done that.
I would like to offer a different perspective on the experience, though. You say these circumstances are not the way you would prefer to learn about engine mechanics, and I do totally see your point, but IMO there is NO better way to learn. I'll bet this experience, as frustrating and annoying and inconvenient as it is, has increased your knowledge by leaps and bounds. It is the tough lessons, the ones that leave scars on your knuckles and soul, that will stick with you.
Don't lose too much sleep over that 3vze - it's a sucky design anyway, and was doomed the day it left the assembly line, so if it can teach you something, then unlike many of its brethren it will have contributed something meaningful and positive to its owner.
I would like to offer a different perspective on the experience, though. You say these circumstances are not the way you would prefer to learn about engine mechanics, and I do totally see your point, but IMO there is NO better way to learn. I'll bet this experience, as frustrating and annoying and inconvenient as it is, has increased your knowledge by leaps and bounds. It is the tough lessons, the ones that leave scars on your knuckles and soul, that will stick with you.
Don't lose too much sleep over that 3vze - it's a sucky design anyway, and was doomed the day it left the assembly line, so if it can teach you something, then unlike many of its brethren it will have contributed something meaningful and positive to its owner.
05-13-2009, 06:37 AM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
05-13-2009, 06:59 AM
#17
Dude- I don't think I would bother checking the oil pump, or oil pressure at all for that matter. You ran the engine out of oil. You destroyed several rod bearings and probably didn't do the mains, or any other bearing surfaces any good.
That engine is in need of being overhauled. At the very least, the crankshaft needs to be machined and oversized bearings installed. Running without oil has probably scored the cylinder walls as well, which means it needs bored and new pistons installed. At this point you should consider just buying and installing a rebuilt engine or at the very least a known good used engine.
I would hesitate to advise you to overhaul the engine, because you really sound like you are in over your head at this point. If you want to learn, fine that is cool. Just remember that you can expect a few more heartbreaks along the line though, learning the hard way is just that way.
Either that or sell it and start over like the mechanic suggested. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is what it is.
That engine is in need of being overhauled. At the very least, the crankshaft needs to be machined and oversized bearings installed. Running without oil has probably scored the cylinder walls as well, which means it needs bored and new pistons installed. At this point you should consider just buying and installing a rebuilt engine or at the very least a known good used engine.
I would hesitate to advise you to overhaul the engine, because you really sound like you are in over your head at this point. If you want to learn, fine that is cool. Just remember that you can expect a few more heartbreaks along the line though, learning the hard way is just that way.
Either that or sell it and start over like the mechanic suggested. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is what it is.
Last edited by zlathim; 05-13-2009 at 07:03 AM.
05-13-2009, 07:06 AM
#18
Registered User
Holy long post!
You NEVER want to fix a rod knock with just bearings you will want to have your crank turned. Once a rod knock starts it just goes straight downhill, sounds like you need to rebuild your whole bottom end.
You NEVER want to fix a rod knock with just bearings you will want to have your crank turned. Once a rod knock starts it just goes straight downhill, sounds like you need to rebuild your whole bottom end.
05-13-2009, 08:07 AM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well my uncle has a truck that he has had sitting for a while. It just needs the engine finished being hooked up.
Guess what i will probably do then is get that done. Try a couple more things, like change wrist pin and maybe piston.
If that doesn't work, then Will pull the engine and learn how to rebuild an engine.... ugh. But I guess it would be learning and would have something to drive.
Guess what i will probably do then is get that done. Try a couple more things, like change wrist pin and maybe piston.
If that doesn't work, then Will pull the engine and learn how to rebuild an engine.... ugh. But I guess it would be learning and would have something to drive.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
CPD4runner
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners (Build-Up Section)
9
11-05-2017 06:01 AM
Toys4parts
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners (Build-Up Section)
2
09-26-2015 01:56 PM
