Gevo

Hi guys... incase you have seen my little build thread here, I got it all put together and finished yesterday, crank... no ignition. No spark. It turns over nice and smoothe and all that.

So, I hit up the FSM and the interweb. I found this thread on here in seemingly the wrong forum
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/n...89-95-a-10543/

I tested the pickups in the distributor and one of them tested way out of spec (between G2 and G) at 19k Ohms (spec is 125 to 200). The others were 222 (spec is from 125 to 200) and 225 (spec from 150 to 250). I went ahead and tested the coil and igniter as well and it seems like the resistance of the coil is just above spec, (within 2%) so i'll consider that good. The Rotor is in the correct positin at TDC. I check for spark with a spark plug out and grounded (wired solo ground jsut incase) no spark. Then tested voltage coming out of coil to dist, only 12V (so no voltage to spark). I tested the ECM signal to the igniter during cranking, it was within spec. I got that here

http://www.justanswer.com/toyota/3ib...tor-wires.html

SO, MY QUESTION... shall I get a new distributor? Does the 19K ohms on one of the pickups in the distributor cause absolutely no spark to any plug? Also, this was working before I took the engine out.

ANy thoughts, please, always appreciate it

PS: Now I have to update the build thread with some pics..I was hoping also a video of her starting up the fist time.. but that depends on your input here

ksti

Is it possible to look for any codes at this point?

RJR

Make sure the igniter is grounded solidly. It grounds through its frame, not through the harness, so it's important that it is bolted down well and making good contact at the mount points.

Gevo

Ksti, the whole car and all the components are back together. So it is possible to check for codes. I have to read up on how to check the codes on this car and what they mean. I read around that you can jump the points in that connector on the passenger side. Any link for that would make my life easier

RJR, I have definitely re-done all of the grounding points. I have not moved the igniter/coil during this whole deal but I did check the grounding of the frame and it is good.

Really at the moment I'm trying to understand if one of the pickup coils in the distributor being bad will cause a complete no spark condition. Again, I suspect it may not because the distributor surely worked before the rebuild. I of course checked the mechanical operation of it and it is good. I am not sure if the distributor affects the coild from sending it's spark voltage to the distributor, so in my mind I am thinking that regardless of how screwed up the distributor is the coil should send the voltage to it if the coil/igniter is working properly... But I don't know if that is correct or not. I will be reading the FSM section on this now.

I was really hoping for it to just start dangit lol

xtremewlr

This will help you with finding the codes and what they mean - http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/TechTi...ror_codes.aspx

Gevo

As I lay her ein bed and think about the whole process... It occurred to me that since the Black and blue wire is getting the .7 to 1 volt during cranking , that means it's giving the igniter the signal to spark the coil. So regardless of one of the signal generator coils in the distributor being bad, it should still spark.

I'l double check tomorrow, wire new temporary ground to everythin I test and if same test results, that means a bad coil.. The coil looks like the original one it came with, now 22 years old.. I guess just sitting around for 2 months can kill it...?

TNRabbit

Have you checked the FI fuse under the hood?

Gevo

TNRabbit, I had previously checked all of those fuses, but I will check them again when I get to the car this morning.

RSR

I went with richporter from amazon. Everything was w/in spec with the multimeter tests and feeler gauge on both. Had to get a 2nd as the first would only allow me to adjust down to ~12* btdc (took to my mechanic to doublecheck as thought I'd screwed something up, but nope, just out of spec). Was ~$120 new I think versus $250 remanned, $100 junkyard, and $500 dealer... ~$125 now on amazon:
Not sure if it's your issue, but thought I'd mention the option. Mixed wires also comes to mind as a possible issue... I know you have a new wiring harness as well, and believe there's some recommendations on where to tap the ECM wiring (or on here, saw it somewhere) and check for signal at the ECM. Mine ran rich w/ a failed cranshaft sensor but don't think the truck will run with either of the camshaft pickups failed.

Wife's honda dist went out too (actually inner seal went and oil contaminated the distributor housing...) and for about 6 month months on mine and almost a year on hers, we've been running Richporters w/o issue...

Gevo

Ahh..RSR, I really hope this distributor is the sole cause of the complete no spark condition.

I retested the entire ignition system over a few times yesterday and I found that the signal voltage I got form the previous time i tested the black-blue wire wasn't correct. According to the FSM that signal should be .7 to 1 volt, but I was getting .6 volts very sporadically(every few seconds). Of course at this time I had already checked the distributor 10 times over and sure enough one of the pick-ups was at 89k ohms not 125 to 200 (as I had tested before). So, with the only thing I knew for sure as a non functioning part, I went ahead and ordered a new Cardone one from rock-auto for $130 shipped. (comes with cap and rotor, now I have 2 sets ) As far as grounding the circuit is concerned, I am certain it was getting a good ground. Just in case, I went ahead and wired two new grounds to the driver side area and one directly to the igniter body, the whole car is well grounded now at only about .5 ohm on the driver side.

Also, to make sure it wasn't a broken black-blue wire in the harness, I checked for it's continuity from the ECU connector to the igniter connector. I'm semi-colorblind and this took me about 35 minutes to find the right wire, then I tested it and it wasn't the right one at all. My wife confirmed it was black and green, lol, so she helped me find the black and blue and it was good

My friend and I are both finding it difficult to believe that a failed cpick-up coil is causing a complete spark blackout, but according to the wiring diagram and the FSM's description of the ignition system the ECU needs to know the position of the camshafts so it can send the signal to the igniter. Now, on the 22re apparently even if various components fail, it goes into a default time mode and although maybe not perfect the engine will run still. I couldn't find any literature that said the same or the opposite for the 2vze system.

Anyway, I am hoping this is the solution. If a good distirbutor installed still doesn't get the ECU to send a good signal to the igniter, then the next step is a new ECU

SO QUESTION! and depending on the answer a word of caution... I know for a fact this distributor was working before I disassembled the engine. I know for a fact I never dropped the distributor, but I did use various solvents to clean the inside where the solvents would have come into contact with the pickup coils. So, what do you guys think killed the distributor? Solvents used are like break cleaner and carb cleaner, the usual.

Gevo

Well I came across this in my quest to get this answered before the distributor is delivered. Read page 5, last paragraph. Then read the whole document!!
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf

RJR

Strong solvents could possible cause such a problem. Such coils are typically made of enameled transformer wire, which is very fine wire insulated with a very thin, varnish-like layer of semi-transparent enamel. If a solvent dissolves that insulation, it will cause shorts in the coil, which could lead to over-current, burn out the coil, and give you the high resistance that you're seeing.

Brake cleaner and carb cleaner are pretty harsh solvents. I don't think I'd trust them anywhere near my wiring insulation.

RSR

RSR

I don't think Cardone was selling new distributors when I bought mine earlier this year and haven't seen it mentioned before, so let us know your insights on quality, etc.

Also, this thread discusses how the remanned option distributors really aren't a good idea, and why I ultimately went with new aftermarket instead of OEM remanned -- https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...estion-241202/
(And how the options at the time were OEM for 6 benjamins or richporter for $120 on Amazon or two bens at the local parts store)...

Mind sharing findings on the state of your cap and rotor when you pulled them? My cap nubs were nearly entirely gone... Basic maintenance on these engines makes big improvements in it not being a 3 slow... Above thread also hits on that too.

Gevo

I can post pictures when I get to the old ones later this week. Sure.
Also for the cardone one I ordered, I am assuming it is not re-manufactured because all of the remand ones specifically state it and this did not.

Gevo

OK.. So new distributor came in, I tested it and it was out of spec. The resistance was at 520 instead of between 120 to 200 on two of the three terminals. But, I believe that is the spec for the new parts that are NOT OEM. Regardless, I installed it and tested the spark first, no spark. I tested the Black-Blue wire signal, it was getting the .6, .7, .9 volts intermittently.

Which brought me to a question, it makes sense that the signal is sent to the igniter intermittently, but is this how is is supposed to be? There is no mention anywhere that I've been reading on how to test these things that the signal voltage should be intermittent or steady.

I need the collective knowledge of this community to go on from here.

I tested the resistance of the coil and secondary coil and both are within spec. I check that there is in fact power (12 volts) going to the coil and igniter when the key is turned on.

I thought, hmm what happens to the coil leads when the engine is cranking? So I checked between the two leads going to the coil (which when the key is on is at 12 volts between the two) When the engine cranked, the voltage dropped to about 8 or 9. Now, I have no idea what it is supposed to do, but it makes sense that the voltage would drop since the power is going to the starter to crank.

So, I think it may be a bad igniter as well (how would I have damaged this????? It drove home before the rebuild!) The reason I think this is because I read the description of the system... This is What Toyota says I don't get a blinking (or alternating voltage current) so I assume this means my igniter is NOT working... I figure I can jump the 12-volts to the coil and tap the leads to send my own alternating power and see if it creates a spark.. does this make sense to you guys or will I blow something up

Thanks. I want to hear this thing run already!

RSR

Not sure why you even bothered to install if out of spec, but in the manual there are a couple different voltage ranges provided depending upon temperature. So make sure you take those into account... Don't have my fsm open to tell you what they are.

My richporter tested w/in OEM specs fwiw. With sensors, they have to be w/in OEM specs for your truck to run properly, if at all...

I believe there are igniter sensor resistance specs in the FSM manual as well... Did you check those beyond just the operating troubleshooting excerpt above?

Hope this helps.

Gevo

OK! RSR, I checked my new distributor with my friends multimeter as well and it turns out mine was bad. The new distributor reads all well within spec. The old one does to surprisingly. I re-checked everythign with the new multimeter to confirm all the previous readings and everything turned out to be good.

I found that tap test method on here and just finished doing the tap test. I got spar out of the coil! I was relieved to see spark at all finally. This shows that the igniter and coil are good and that the black/blue wire isnt sending a signal. (my previous tests of that signal is useless because an osciliiscope is mandatory to see any relevant data)

Then I went further and checked the VAFM, and ONE of the tests fails. The Vc to E2 test comes up with 0-Ohms between those two. Now I am researching (right now in the garage) if that can cause the ECM not to send the IGT signal.

Also, thanks for the reminder, but I did check everythign according to the FSM suggestions keeping in mind temperature.

Now, I am trying to see what my best options is.. to buy a new aftermarket VAFM or a 20 year old used one. I figure if the VAFM is out of spec regardless of spark or not I want to get one that is fully functional.

As always, suggestions and thoughts are more than welcome.

RSR

VAFMs are expensive... I'd find a junker and check it at the pick and pull. They usually last pretty well, provided that folks aren't running oiled K&Ns, or allowing moisture into the electronics board -- usually by unsealing that top cover to modify and then not resealing w/ sensor safe silicone (or taking it off on a particularly humid day and resealing the same)...

bbrideau

Not sure where you are located but if you find your VAFM is pooched and you have trouble locating one. i am pretty sure i have a few kickin around in my shop. ones from a 94 3vz 4runner and the other is out of a 91 i think.

EDIT: I also second the idea on getting a used one. They are expensive brand new