NEW Thorley 3.0 (3VZE) Headers
#121
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I'm very speachless after reading all of that thread. I really don't know what to think anymore. He does explain things, but to someone that really doesn't understand that much about said things then it's french to me. I think that I understood the jist of what everyoen was saying and especially Gadget, but I'm not really sure at all.
I guess I need someone to actually explain it to me via IM or something so I can ask questions as they are going along. That's just a lot of saying one thing and then another that kind contridicts, but not really. I'm basically lost. Yeah.
I guess I need someone to actually explain it to me via IM or something so I can ask questions as they are going along. That's just a lot of saying one thing and then another that kind contridicts, but not really. I'm basically lost. Yeah.
#122
Registered User
Originally Posted by mt_goat
Here is a interesting discusion on backpressure and torque: http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...ad.php?t=16387 Make sure to get down to Gadget's post #15.
hmmmm The problem is you have mixed to tottaly diffrent theroy's in fluids.
the flow over a wing, is NOT like the flow through a tube. There are a lot of other considerations concerning Renolds number, lenght of pipe vs diameter of pipe.
Ill dig up some math to back what im saying in a weee bit...
as Gadget used some farily simple examples to prove his point. (which is correct for free air fluids) try this
go get a papertowel tube or tolet paper tube. and blow through it (more to the point breath through it) the diamter is large and the lenght is "relitively" short. now go get your garden hose and try the same thing. by Gadget's example it should be EASER to breath through the smaller garden hose. (even one that is only a foot long) when in fact that ISNT the case. and if that example doest do it for ya, go get a drinking straw and try to "breath" through it. just because its smaller does NOT make it easyer to breath through because its is supposed to be at a "lower pressure" as the breath has to travel faster..... mmmmm NOT!
you and your motor are going to experience the same thing.
(math still to come)
Last edited by snap-on; 03-27-2006 at 07:07 AM.
#123
Contributing Member
Originally Posted by snap-on
hmmmm The problem is you have mixed to tottaly diffrent theroy's in fluids.
the flow over a wing, is NOT like the flow through a tube. There are a lot of other considerations concerning Renolds number, lenght of pipe vs diameter of pipe.
Ill dig up some math to back what im saying in a weee bit...
the flow over a wing, is NOT like the flow through a tube. There are a lot of other considerations concerning Renolds number, lenght of pipe vs diameter of pipe.
Ill dig up some math to back what im saying in a weee bit...
I'll repeat: My advise is look into lower gearing.
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-27-2006 at 07:20 AM.
#124
Registered User
no not "you" goat, i was address the post over on TTORA but dont feel like going to the trouble of regerstering and all that crap just to argue over "back flow" pressure....
#125
Contributing Member
Actually, the flow through a tube is EXACTLY like flow over a wing, but in 3D. Bernoulli's principle still applies - high speed/low pressure.
But you also need to consider that your exhaust does not handle "steady state" flow - more like a bunch of pulses. A GOOD header helps by "arranging" these pulses so they don't interfere with each other, and you get closer to having a steady state flow through the rest of the exhaust. A BAD header allows these pulses to bunch up, and strange things will happen (compared to what you would expect from your "steady state" equations).
Constructive/destructive interference of these pulses come into play too, as anyone who has heard a highly tuned header will understand.
But you also need to consider that your exhaust does not handle "steady state" flow - more like a bunch of pulses. A GOOD header helps by "arranging" these pulses so they don't interfere with each other, and you get closer to having a steady state flow through the rest of the exhaust. A BAD header allows these pulses to bunch up, and strange things will happen (compared to what you would expect from your "steady state" equations).
Constructive/destructive interference of these pulses come into play too, as anyone who has heard a highly tuned header will understand.
#130
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Actually, I think we scared the Thorley guys off the board.
It's sad, I would rather buy from Thorley over Downey or NWOR. The problem lies in the fact that the 3VZ-E hasn't been used in a vehicle for over 10 years. And, out of the ones that it is in, many have been modified with drivetrain lifts, different crossmembers, skidplates, and solid axel swaps. Downey's and NWOR's product has been out for some time. There are pictures all over the Internet. I know from these pictures that neither of their crossovers would work for my vehicle. Since the Thorley header appears to be bundled with the crossover, I need an actual picture of how the crossover runs to get an idea of if it will even fit.
Now, if Thorley decided to unbundle the product, so that I didn't need to buy a crossover that most likely wouldn't fit, then I would by throwing down money right now.
It's sad, I would rather buy from Thorley over Downey or NWOR. The problem lies in the fact that the 3VZ-E hasn't been used in a vehicle for over 10 years. And, out of the ones that it is in, many have been modified with drivetrain lifts, different crossmembers, skidplates, and solid axel swaps. Downey's and NWOR's product has been out for some time. There are pictures all over the Internet. I know from these pictures that neither of their crossovers would work for my vehicle. Since the Thorley header appears to be bundled with the crossover, I need an actual picture of how the crossover runs to get an idea of if it will even fit.
Now, if Thorley decided to unbundle the product, so that I didn't need to buy a crossover that most likely wouldn't fit, then I would by throwing down money right now.
#133
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Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Headers
There are three current manf. Of headers that I've found.
I would recommend calling the individual manuf. & asking about CARB, ceramics, etc.
As of Jan 25 2010:
Thorley was $620
LC engineering. $800+ shipping
NWOR was $1050 + shipping
nwor boasts they have the best and seemed alright on the phone. So my question is; what r the problems with NWOR ?? The general idea I get is they are rude on the phone or that they ship you the wrong parts, or something. Just curious.
I would recommend calling the individual manuf. & asking about CARB, ceramics, etc.
As of Jan 25 2010:
Thorley was $620
LC engineering. $800+ shipping
NWOR was $1050 + shipping
nwor boasts they have the best and seemed alright on the phone. So my question is; what r the problems with NWOR ?? The general idea I get is they are rude on the phone or that they ship you the wrong parts, or something. Just curious.
#135
With the Doug Thorley's did you buy an (extra) cross-over pipe from them also or did you just have the muffler shop do one ?
Do people run duel-exhaust (with crossover) on v6's like the v8's musclecar guys do ? or do they instead use one of those mufflers that have 2-inlets & 1-outlet ??
Do people run duel-exhaust (with crossover) on v6's like the v8's musclecar guys do ? or do they instead use one of those mufflers that have 2-inlets & 1-outlet ??
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