SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

I've got an 89 pickup, 22re, 4x4, W56-C 5-speed. Come spring I'm going to be doing some work to the engine to replace some gaskets and seals to get rid of some leaks. I'm also going to be installing a new water pump, oil pump and timing chain cover. The timing chain was replaced by the PO a month or so before I bought it and I've checked it recently with the valve cover off so I know the guides and everything are good. My question is this: would it be worth the time to go ahead and replace the head gasket? I'm not having any problems with it and I'm a believer in the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' theory, but with 220k+ miles on the motor I wonder if I should go ahead and do the work while I have the front of the engine opened up. I'd hate to have to tear it back apart again another 5-10k miles down the road....I'd rather do it all at once. I understand there's no way to be sure when it will/might go, but with the odometer growing it's bound to happen sooner or later and based on what I've read from others here, 220k isn't an unbelieveable mileage for a head gasket to go. If I replace the head gasket I'm going to go ahead and replace the timing chain again with a set from engnbldr that has steel guides. The PO used a kit with plastic guides and even though the chain is fine I don't know what brand he used so I would feel better knowing I have reputable parts in my engine. I may even get frisky with it and install a new cam from engnbldr as well when/if I do the timing kit. I'm definitely doing the other work anyway. Just looking for thoughts and opinions from others here who are more experienced with these engines as I've only had my truck for a couple of years now. And if I decide to do the head gasket does anybody have any suggestions on a good cam to install? It's my daily driver, but I do some light/mild off-roading to go 4-wheeling and hunting. I don't want to kill my fuel mileage, but a little more out of the engine would be nice.

My coolant and oil are clean (no mixing between the two)
Current compression test shows #1: 175, #2: 174, #3: 170, #4: 165
No leak-down test info
Thanks for the help fellas!

Ryan G.

That engine must have been rebuilt before. I really doubt a 220K mile motor is getting good compression like you have. You would be wasting time and money with the job in my opinion.

Mike_Honcho

Sparks,

I agree with Ryan G... 220k is a long time for a single row timing chain motor to run on 1 head gasket.

I think it is a matter of preference whether or not you replace the head gasket or not. What is your objective? Are you planning on checking the bearings? 220k is a long time for an engine to run on bearings too. The problem becomes where do you stop? You will already be into the engine a big chunk of change in parts and gaskets, checking the bearings would be the logical step but you are uncorking a whole different genie there. You are only bearings, rings, and pistons away from a complete rebuild.

On the other hand if things are working fine and you are going by the "ain't broke..." theory, why bother replacing a new timing chain, the timing chain cover and water pump? I know everyone hates plastic timing chain guides, but factory for this year were plastic. Slack and slapping are ultimately the problem, not the guides. You could continue to drive it until you need to rebuild it, then replace everything.

If you are looking for an excuse to tear it apart, even though the cylinders are testing out fine according to spec: 171 psi, min 142 psi, and 14 psi max difference between, you seem to be loosing compression from the front of the block to the back with a 10 psi difference.

Cam Suggestions:
I ordered the engnbldr stock head and he told me that the 261 cam would be the best for fuel economy on daily driving with stock tires, stock gears, and would offer very good power and acceleration from a red light and in highway commute driving. It would be good for semi regular hauling of motorcycles, kayaks, rocks, wood, etc... Hopefully that is correct! Fuel economy is super important these days... I haven't installed it yet so I can't attest to this or the change in MPG.

Hope this helps!
-Mike

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info!

I'm not necessarily looking for any 'ol reason to tear the motor apart, but I figure if I'm going to be doing a few things and it wouldn't take that much more to do something that can prevent bigger problems later, why not.

I want to replace the water pump because the current one has a small leak and it's making some noise that I really don't like. It's working, but if I can replace it before it fails unexpectedly (which it seems like it will do sooner rather than later) I would rather do that. I'd feel better controlling the situation and replace it before a complete failure.

With regards to the oil pump, I was going under the assumption that it was the original. Again, with the mileage on the truck I'm definitely within the range to start having potential problems.

The timing chain and guides I would like to replace simply for peace of mind. There's nothing wrong with the current one other than the fact that I have no idea what brand it is so I don't know how dependable it is. I've read so many threads on here about timing chain failures and I would feel so much better if I can prevent myself from having to face the dreaded 'milkshake' and unexpected/necessary rebuild that goes along with it.

The 4-piece front end kit (timing chain kit, timing cover, water pump and oil pump) from engnbldr is $156 which is (in my opinion) an excellent price for some good insurance to keep me from having to deal with any of these things failing unexpectedly. I'm usually very skeptical of parts that are so inexpensive, but I've heard nothing but good things about engnbldr's products so I feel confident that they won't give me any problems.

My main goal is to replace the water pump and get rid of all the leaks on the front of the engine (which includes the front main seal). I want to replace the oil pump and timing chain kit for my own peace of mind because I'm unsure of their reliability. If I were to buy the water pump, oil pump and timing kit separately it would cost $135. I figure for an extra $20 I can get the timing cover too (where it would normally cost $50 by itself) so why not. If I remove the existing cover and find problems with it (cracks, gouges, burrs, etc.) that are potentially causing leaks then I'm ready to replace it right then and there instead of having to wait for a new one to come in and save $30 on it at the same time. I know some of what I want to do may not be absolutely necessary, but I don't have another vehicle to drive while this one is down so I don't really have the option of finding out there are other problems after I've already started taking things apart.

Is there anything I can look for that would indicate a rebuild at some point in the past? It seems that the compression readings are a pretty good indicator, but is there anything else I can look for? If I can find some additional confirmation of a previous rebuild then I would feel better about not doing the head gasket along with the other things since I would know the head gasket isn't as old as the odometer says it is. Also, with regard to the gradual decrease in compression from front to back, is that an indication of anything I should look further into or is that just the way it happens to be with my engine?

Thanks for the help, guys! I know I can get long-winded at times. I apologize for that. It's a lot to read, but it helps me work thru it all in my head as I'm typing and the way I see it more information is always better.

Gamefreakgc

Head gaskets are known to last if the truck is treated well and it seems like it was.


You're not going to get much performance out of a 22RE though. It only had 110 HP stock brand new, new cams might help a little but it's not going to be big.


A better upgrade for fuel economy and power would be a new cat-back system, replacing the stock muffler with a high-flow one. And cheaper.


If you're planning on doing a rebuild or upgrading then sure, you'll have to change the head gaskets. But don't crack it open just to replace them when they seem to be just fine.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

With your compression numbers, I would not do the head gasket if it were me. I say that it and it could come back and bite you but it is the chance we all take. What is your yearly mileage that you drive? If it just a few thousand a year, I would also take that into consideration as well.

I see that you dont have another vehicle as well, but if you do the head gasket, I would suggest pulling the motor. It can be done in the truck, but it is back breaking. So much easier to do on an engine stand.

If it is bored out, it should be stamped on the pistons and that will be an indication that it has been rebuilt. Does not always need to be bored on a rebuild. Orange sealant is another give away about what parts have been removed or replaced at one time. It is a common sealant that most back yard mechanics tend to use, but is not 100% evidence of a rebuild.

Doing a top end rebuild takes longer then you might expect. I allow 3 days. Cleaning parts, getting the head to the shop and having it checked out and if it needs some machining, that could add more time to the rebuild.

I got to drive HighLuxs Runner and he has the cam and headers. I was shocked at the amount of horsepower his truck has. I didnt really think you could get much more power out of these trucks as well. But adding that extra power could take it toll on a high mileage motor in my opinion. If you want more information on power, ask HighLux as to what all is done to his 22re.

Doing a top end rebuild is not to costly, but when you decide to do the bottom end, it can add up quick. I only spend about $170 on machine work on the head, any more then that I can get a new head for $250ish.

I didnt really answer your question but hopefully give you some more ideas about where you want to go about your decision.

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the help guys!

I'm not interested in doing a full rebuild right now. The compression is good which tells me that the piston rings and valves are good so I don't want to mess with that. And with this being my daily driver for at least a while longer (maybe another year or 2) I want to make sure it's dependable. With the mileage at the 220k mark I'm in the range for big things to start going bad and that's what I want to avoid. Once I can get another vehicle I want to start doing more to the truck with performance upgrades/modifications because I'll have the flexibility to leave it apart for a couple days or weeks if need be. For now I'm interested in keeping it fairly simple yet reliable.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Order your kit with gaskets and all if you want. Then it is really simple to change the water and oil pump with out cracking in to the motor. The hardest part IMHO is re torquing the crank bolt but you can build a tool for that.
Drain and pull your radiator fan and shroud. Use an impact or put a breaker bar under the passenger frame rail attached to the crankcase bolt. Bump the starter. Make sure to disconnect the coil before so the truck does not start. Then just pull you belts water pump and oil pump. Clean and install new parts. Pretty simple. I copied someone else's design and got a piece of square stock steel and drilled 2 wholes in it to mate it up to the crank pull bolts. Use good hardware when doing this because you will probably bend the softer stuff. I did . Then put your proper torque setting on the crank bolt. Remove your made tool install belts radiator and fan and shroud. Prime your oil pump and fill your radiator. Your all done. If your new you should be able to get it done under a day. A few hours if your practiced. Also buy a good torque wrench for your timing cover over or under torque is why most people fail. Good luck and I hope this helps

Btw you will have those other parts cover, chain, and guides, gasket and head bolts to change when your ready. Also you will be more comfortable because you have already exposed the front of the motor once. And will quickly see why we love this motor. EASY TO WORK ON.

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

Thanks fish! I've heard of using the breaker bar on the frame rail to break the crank bolt loose, but I wondered how people got it tightened back down during the install. Now I know