FooRunner

Just checking prior to diving in on removing and replacing the timing cover gasket on my 22RE in my 86 4Rnr. It's leaking quite a bit and using about 1 quart/mo and making a mess of my driveway.

I've seached and pretty much here's the best post I've found: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...nt-pics-88722/. It has links to the 4x4Wire and 4Crawler timing chain info pages. I've got a hard copy of the FSM as well.

In addition to the references I listed above, I'm open to ay good advice & lessons learned.

Some quick info on my motor, LCE street performer (installed by PO) with approx 25-50k miles on it and a 3-core turbo radiator.

Here's my proposed new parts list:
-thermostat and gasket (best one & temp to get? Currently heater blows mostly cool in winter time. Maybe I need an electric fan?)
- timing cover gasket (I saw a comment that edelbrock gasket adhesive is better than RTV/Silicon-sealer, thoughts?)
- H2O pump gasket (should I R2 the H2O pump as well while I'm in there? PO said 84 is best year as it was cast iron. WSY?)
- oil pump o-ring
- Belts (if needed)
- Distributor o-ring
- Valve cover gasket was R2ed 5k ago, plan to re-use it

I was planning to source most of this from my nearby Checkers versus driving 30-mi to the nearest stealer. Any comments on orginal vs aftermarket parts appreciated.

Mucho Thankso

gilby4runner

Depending on miles or previous service history you might want to go ahead and change out the timing chain and guides while your at it. I would suggest going to the dealership to get the parts....look at it this way. Toyota parts last a long time. Why not go back with something that is proven.

EWAYota

I agree on the changing of the timing chain and guides but I'd order them from Engnbldr.com and get the steel guide kit. Wouldn't hurt to replace the oil and h2o pump while your at it. Awesome customer service, parts usually to your door within a couple days.

Are you planning on removing the head or you going to leave it on? If you leave it on, be very careful not to pinch or tear the headgasket.

Flash319

Even if you just get the gaskets from Engnbldr they are very good gaskets. I have done 4 timing chains on different trucks and have never had a leak. I also have left the head on every one.

Take your time and you will not have a problem. I also only use silicone on the top and bottom corners of the timng cover, just where it meets the head and oil pan. The rest of the gasket I just put some white grease on it to hold it in place.

'884Runner

If it's an LCE engine, then doesn't it have their dual timing chain setup? If so, you'll need gaskets specific to it, right?

Targetnut

RTV acts as a lubricant when used on gaskets and can cause the gasket to squeeze out of the joint it is supposed to seal.

getting the timing cover on without leaks requires skill if you don't take the head and pan off.

I'd strongly recommend at least pulling the pan. Before you remove the cover take the oil pump off and pull the splined sleeve off the crank. this will allow just enough more wiggle room to make it not too hard.

Use an adhesive sealant such as permatex spray tack on the gasket. put some silicone sealant between the head gasket ad the head and just a dab at the corner of the headgsket/ block/ t cover junction.

FooRunner

Thanks a bunch for the heads up. I was able to call LCE thurs afternoon and was told I needed two different gasket sets for the double chain and will have to piecemeal them together. Good thing is LCE and I are both in AZ and shipping won't take too long.

Sounds good. I got a little messy getting the timing cover off and am sure some coolant dribbled in the pan. Therefore, looks like I'll be pulling the pan as well.

What's best for a good oil pan seal, a Toy gasket or the Form-in-Place-Goo?

Looks like I'll be scraping for a while.

Here's some pics of my leakage:



A close up:



Everything down low is slimed, plenty of cleaning to do. Hopefully I don't have a leaky pwr steering as well:

[

EWAYota

you'll want to use RTV gasket maker for the oil pan, no cork gasket.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

WTH is that chain for?

Btw There is no need at all to pull the oil pan. Remember, it has a drain plug, so just drain the oil/coolant. Besides, a tiny bit of coolant wont hurt the engine. But a normal oil change will take care of it anyways. Pulling the oil pan is a time consuming unnecessary step.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

No offense, but IMHO this is bad advice. There is no need to take off the head or the pan. I have done about 15 timing chain sets and never removed the head or pan. You only have to be careful not to hurt the head gasket. If previously done right, there should be only RTV on the oil pan that needs to be scraped off, and reapplied.

Toyota does not use a gasket on their oil pans from the factory, they use FIPG (form in place gasket)

FooRunner

The PO had chained the motor mounts to keep them from ripping out.

mr_schuster

I agree with DeathCougar. Don't pull the pan. The only reason I would pull the pan is if your chain guides have dropped. Even then I might not do it, because the guides are not going anywhere down there.

Just an observation from the pics above. Make certain you are about to fix the correct leak. I say this primarily because oil is seen in front of the timing cover gaskets, on top of the water pump and at the base of the head. If the timing cover is leaking it will not leak to the front of the engine as the fan will blow oil to the rear. I would clean it up real good and make certain the half moon in the front is not leaking or the valve cover itself. I have also seen the front seal on the P/S pump leak and blow back onto the front of the engine just like what I see in the pics.

Oh if the timing chain has been done before without removing the head someone might have not have re-sealed around the front portion of the headgasket with a quality sealant or re-torqued the front bolt that runs through the head to the timing cover.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

I was thinking the same thing....if it is indeed a LC Engineering engine with only 25-50k or so, why is it leaking so heavily?

FooRunner

I was primarily thinking to pull the pan to see what surprises might be lurking in there. But, I might change my mind as I read about the addl work IOT do so, and thought of cleaning all that gasket surface as well. I was hoping toyota had a quality rubber or cork gasket, but if it's just slopping on more FIPG, then I'll propably opt out on dropping the pan for now.

When I originally bought old "Blue Balls" last Oct (yeah, you guessed it, off Ebay), I thought the leak was originally power steering as well as the oil splatter was principally under the driver's side. The first few months the leak wasn't that bad and the 4Rnr wasn't using much oil and hardly any PS fluid. Just a couple of dribbles on the driveway overnight. Back in Dec, I installed a new valve cover gasket kit, did an oil change and used synthetic, (that might add to the leak). Then a few weeks after the oil change, I decided to wind her up down the interstate and got about 80mph with the 33s and 5.29 gears. After that she leaves silver dollar size stains where ever I park and is using about 1 quart of motor oil per month. I have not tried any oil additives.

As for PS, fluid level remains fairly constant. Back during my Dec maintenance I also used some Lucas PS seal additive as a short term fix thinking the PO might have used accidentally used PS fluid vs ATF. I do have a junker PS gear box that I was planning to rebuild in my spare time, along with the original PS pump.

I wouldn't be surprised if I have both a mo-oil and PS leak going. As for now I got the timing cover off and will press with this job and then clean up the eng compartment as best I can. I got a hunch I might be chasing another leak.

Thanks for the advice guys, it's greatly appreciated.

Flash319

I have had the bolt boss at the top of the cover (the hidden bolt hole) crack and then leak. It showed the same kind of leak that you have, running from the head down. It looks like a leak from the timming cover to head gasket surface.

FooRunner

Well, this project has taken 3x as much time as I thought and its become the project that keeps on growing. The gasket kits I got from LCE did not have a oil pump o-ring, so called them up and got that as well as a distributor o-ring.

Got the timing cover off and have spent quite a bit of time cleaning it real well. Halfway through I remembered I had some of those little Dremel scouring brush/wheels with abrasive resin glued in. I still scraped the gasket material with a 1" putty knife that has been lightly sharpened on a wet stone, but there was always that layer that would never come off. The dremel scour wheel did wonders and it came right off in no time as I kept the wheel moving as not burn one spot on the aluminum cover. They seemed harmless and the wheels never scrubbed anywhere close to where it removed the original machine marks on the timing cover. I used the wheels on the block, pan, and even under the head while using a mirror.





I reassembled the cover using the LCE gasket kits Permatex High Tack Spray and Ultra Black RTV in the corners and on the pan.



I then took some time to clean the under chassis, flush the radiator and heater and it seemed like she was good to go.

Now, the interesting part....

I gave it some time warming up on idle and it seemed like the leak was gone, and my heater finally worked as well. I decided a quick 15-mi trip to home depot was in order to find some good grease cutter to finish cleaning the underside. As I pulled on the interstate I felt the heater get good and hot (finally, now that spring is here), so I switched it to COOL and VENT. Then I got caught in some traffic and had to pass two gravel haulers and mashed the throttle. Shortly after that I felt some warm moisture on my right foot and a faint whiff of antifreeze. I started thinking, "This can't be good...?" And as I took a quick glance in my rear view mirror I noticed that the car behind me had their wipers on but it was a clear blue AZ sky. I immediately pulled off 1/2 mile down the interstate at the next ramp and as I was coasting, I noticed that the water temp seemed a tad low and the oil was a tad high. I pulled over and popped the hood. The first thing that caught me eye was I had oil on the engine block like before and plenty of splattering around the engine bay. The engine was running as normal. I figured my time spent changing the chain gasket was in vain and thought I could nurse it back to the house taking the side roads at a leisurely speed. About a mile down the road, I thought, "Oh yeah, that smell of antifreeze, WTF was that about?" On a whim, I flipped the heater on for the hell of it, and you guessed it, no heat. AAAAahhhaahaaa! I pulled over and immediately shut her down and popped the hood once again. Then I noticed that the rear heater outlet house had popped off the inlet tube to the back of the water pump. I could also hear what sounded like the faint sizzle of bacon frying under my valve cover gasket.

I had a very humble 3-mile walk back home and plenty of time to ponder the situation, my mechanic skills, or lack thereof. Looking back, I felt the hot water on my foot because the PO had routed some CB power-wires through the firewall by popping the throttle cable grommet out. As the water spewed on the firewall, some came in the cab. The hose must have blew because I had used a smaller hose clamp from one of those Harbor frieght multi-hose clamp kits. And how could I have been so dumb to overlook the higher oil and lower water temps as a classic sign of losing your water.

Back home, I got some water, more oil, went back and she started right up. She didn't smoke or run rough, and I pampered her back into the garage. The fresh oil that was once in the motor now seemed like it had 1000-1500 miles on it and seemed about 1/3 qrt low. The spark plugs, which were normally that optimum light brown, where now a light tan/sand color. Given that she seemed to run all right, I started in again on the oil leak from before.

To get a better look at where the origin of leak motor was while the motor was running, I pulled the fan and shrowd, power steering pump and brackets, and A/C compressor and bracket. The leak appears to be coming from where the cover meets the head on the passenger side.



Now the dilemma, redo the gasket like before with a fresh one, but give it extra RTV around the head area, or pull the head, timing cover, and pan to give it the full gasket/RTV treatment as per the FSM. With the head off I might be able to also inspect for any damage from loosing the water.

I humbly appreciate your inputs guys.

BTW, are head gaskets specifically matched to bore size? I have no idea what bore this LCE street performer motor is.

abecedarian

I don't think anyone else mentioned it.
Did you check the PCV valve and make sure it wasn't plugged?
Positive pressure in the crankcase WILL cause oil leaks.

FooRunner

Well I called LCE and talked over my water loss issue with one of the sales reps. He stated to do a compression check and see if the cylinders are within 15 psi of another.

cyl dry wet
1 155 158
2 152 157
3 155 158
4 151 155

It looks like the damage was minimal, whew!!! But I had expected to see slightly higher numbers with an engine that supposedly had a high compression head.

I also ordered another gasket set and will try again to stop the oil leak from the timing cover. They recommended Gasket Synch so I'll give that a try as well as being more liberal with the RTV sealant this time.

If anything, I'm getting pretty proficient at pulling off the accessories.

My99

Just curious as to if there's been any update on your delimma. I'm about to have to button mine back up myself and am looking for the best way to do so. So you're saying you did have a gasket around most of the cover, except for where it meets the oil pan at the bottom and head at the top?

Pistonman

Where is the head gasket for the front of the head?