Neaners

I just (FINALLY!) got a new set of BFG 31x10.50 R15 the other day so my husband took it in to get the life time alignment from Firestone. I had called ahead and gave them my truck specs.. they said no prob, $180.00. cool. but when he got down there, they said they wouldn't do the lifetime on it because it was modified. when he inquired further, they said it had been raised....

I beg to differ! granted, i bought it last year used ... 120k and looking like total stock. replaced the upper/lower ball joints, minor outer "Bling" (mud guards, blah, etc), replaced the stock steering stabilizer with OME's latest and greatest, and lastly... I replaced those crap ass stock springs with the OME 901's. I was told the springs were to replace STOCK springs... no lift. Oh yeah, oh yeah... and to try and "even" out the front to match the nicely firm rear, (haha, i said "firm rear" ... oh nevermind... ) I cranked the front torsion bars like 4 turns each side. still not what i would say is "raised" at all. I took the liberty of doing some measurements for this post...


from the ground to the inside of the wheel well - 36.5 inches ... in the rear - 37.5 inches

from the top of the rim to the inside of the wheel well in the front - 13.5 inches ... in the rear - 14.5 inches

is that about stock? i really want to go yell at someone about this but obviously don't want to go without my facts.

any info, tips or ideas??

thanks in advance!

Jay351

my truck is 36" front with 32" tires and 34" rear
all stock, no lift at all.

Keggo

That's bs... I had the lifetime alignment on my 4Runner with a cruiser coils and bj spacers..

Roboito

i prefer the term "lifted", i'm not sure why..

maybe its because "raising" is what you do to chickens on a farm.

just my thought

ovrrdrive

Well technically, with aftermarket lift or leveling springs in the rear and a tbar crank in the front your truck is raised.

It wouldn't affect the ability to hold an alignment but if they have a strict policy on raised trucks then your's fails.

Neaners

but the OME 901's are supposed to be to replace stock height.. no lift. (correct me if i am wrong..)

I mean I can always "un" crank the torsion bars ...

Neaners

fair enough ... LOL

seaflea

I got the lifetime alignment on my rig and I am running 35" tires. Havent hada problem with them aligning it yet.... You may want to try another store.

Yotapup

Isn't Firestone the Company with the famous blowout tires? Seriously Man take the truck elsewhere!

Red3.slow

But its fords fault!



Thats what the company was yelling for months I remember that.

Neaners

Ok, this is exactly what they wrote under "Order Notes"

Truck has been lifted
Rec 4X4 shop or frame shop to increase camber/caster
Before LF camber Neg 1.1, RF camber Neg 1.2
After LF camber Neg 0.6 RF camber Neg 0.3
Before LF caster Neg 0.5, RF caster Neg 0.1
After LF caster Neg 1.5, RF Caster Pos 0.9

(all of this is greek of course to me...)

and then on the work order, they hand wrote on the bottom:
"Vehicle Lift it" (don't ask me about the "it" part.. I don't get that..)
"Camber Kitz Front (Both)" (Once again, dont get the "Kitz" part... but whatever )


So are they trying to say I have after market camber's or something? I have to be honest, I dont think I could even find the "camber's" on my truck if I tried... (please excuse my ignorance -)

tc

Your truck is totally stock height.

I'm not sure what the actual alignment specs are, but it sounds like they couldn't get the camber (the vertical tilt of the tires in and out / \ like that) into spec so are recommending a camber kit which spaces either the top or the bottom to get the tires vertical (they are very common on slammed Hondas etc)

x2 for taking it somewhere else - I always recommend going to a "true" alignment shop where they really KNOW alignment, not just how to run the machine.

bamachem had a great thread on alignment - you might try searching for it

Neaners

I will for sure check for that thread. thanks. What is really crappy, is that even though they couldnt get the camber (or whatever) right, they STILL charged my husband $70 for the alignment! This is the other point that I am going to have a discussion with them about. I mean, if you can't do the job, why should you pay for it?! (or am i totally off base with that as well?)

AndYota

I'd take the truck back, ask them to put it up on the rack and point out the reasons they think its been "raised" (i.e. Kitz).


Andy

Neaners

For sure. I just really lack any knowledge on this particular subject, (is it that obvious? LOL) that is why i am trying to get as much info on this as I can, so that I accomplish what I am looking for without looking like a TOTAL ass. haha.

(which I REALLY do appreciate all of everyone's input here. you all rock! )


PS I was able to find this http://the-roo.com/4runner/Suspension/services.pdf about the spec's for my trucks alignment (from my service manual). Once again, total greek to me but....

AxleIke

DO NOT TAKE YOUR TRUCK TO FIRESTONE.

I have the lifetime alignment. I took my truck in 3 times, they aligned it perfect, no complaints, then on the 4th time, they told me they couldn't align it. After coming back 3 more times, they still would not align the truck properly. They would keep it for most of the day, and when it would come out, the tires would be visibly out of camber. They then tried to tell me that camber could not be adjusted on these vehicles. Yeah, okay.

I highly recomend NOT going there. Firestone sucks.

Neaners

So what other places are good in southern california that do lifetime alignments? (i mean other than your average local joint, which i wouldnt expect you guys would know of in my area..)

AxleIke

no can help really. I started doing the alignments myself. Check with other major chains, but i'd expect the same treatment at all the places.

ewong

IMHO a lifetime alignment is a bunch of BS anyway..

If the suspension is adjustable - it can "slip" - period.

So IMHO a lifetime alignment isnt worth it becuase is usually done as a marketing ploy to get you in the shop.
Which means that its done by techs who know how to run the machine, but dont necessarily understand WHAT the numbers mean.

The shop that does my alignments - guarantees the work for 1 year. I think thats pretty good considering curb hits. wheeling etc. (its better stated as one call back in a year assuming no screwups by the alignment guy - which means if its not right he'll fix it, but if its right and then "becomes" not right he'll only fix it once)

Also - its been a while but $180 is ALOT for an alignment.
Last time I had my truck checked it was like $100 or so.

IMHO - your truck has in fact been lifted.
You cranked the torsion bars.
Its lifted.
You have springs that are taller in the rear.
Its ilifted.
Not by much.
But.
Its lifted.

Lift will affect caster.

The torsion bar crank.. will affect both caster an camber and probably TOE as well.

Also - VERY FEW TECHs that I have seen understand that CASTER is in fact adjustable on the twin A arm IFS.
Its done in a VERY non intuitive way - you run the front cams IN and the rear cams OUT...

And the FSM has a very detailed (but very non intuitive) way to SET The alignment. I doubt any shop follows the FSM procedure, but I suppose it actually works.

What you need is a 4x4 shop that has a rack or a place that aligns 4x4 "race trucks". In SoCal that should be easy to find.
A decent alignment can be done on a flat floor - so dont be surprised if there is no machine (tho its far easier on a rack).

-----


Take some pics - how much more room is avail ont he adjusting cams?
Are they maxed out?

Also - I'll BET that they tried to get more caster by running BOTH bottom cams OUT.
No wonder you have positive caster

---

BTW -t he FSM procedure is basically
-- put truck on the rack
-- CENTER all FOUR adjusting cams
-- Read the settings
-- Lookup caster and camber on the graph (x and y axis)
-- read the cross mark number
-- follow instructiosn for how many "dashes" to adjust each cam (some go in and others go out)
-- re read settings and FINE adjust....
-- Set Toe

GV27

Here's my advice, for better or for worse:

1) Forget that "lifetime warranty" jazz. You get what you pay for. If you're thinking you're going to get, say, ten alignments for $180 then that's $18 per. Sounds like a good deal, right? Again - you get what you pay for. I pay $75 per but never have any complaints

2) Forget the big chain stores. They have dudes right off the street that they put through a week's training course. Getting it right for them is pure luck. Find a specialist. Here (I know this doesn't help you at all but just as an example) I use a place called Merrell Axle and Wheel. I often see these type of places listed as "axle and frame", "axle and wheel", etc. They have this crusty guy who bitches a lot and is not very friendly (and actually likes to say "I can't align this ▓▓▓▓▓" right before he tears into it like a pit bull and gets the job done - lol) but is an absolute alignment guru.

3) When you do find a place, first have them write something down on a piece of paper. If they can't spell, go elsewhere!