Matt16

I'm studying for an exam for work and bored out of my wits. I am thinking (day dreaming) about off road improvements to my 4Runner. I've already got BJ spacers (loosened Tbars for stock ride height) and I have swaybar discos. The rear has been leveled with OME coils and locked with an Aussie Locker. I'm running 31x10.5r15 Nokian Vatiiva A/Ts (alright, but nothing to write home about).

Most of my 4wd time is spent in pursuit of fish:




on roads which look often like this:


or this:


or this:


once in a while, I'm an idiot (Sunday 5pm, rainy night, middle of nowhere, stuck)


My tires have a tendency to load up a bit in that stuff:


That said, I cannot compromise ice traction as i often drive ice roads like this:


Though chains aren't too bad for the ice, its often patches of unexpected ice interspersed with miles of dry bare pavement or gravel.

Also, friends would be pissed if their "ski boat" didn't didn't work well in packed snow:





Once in a while I wish I had more traction though, I'm thinking about just buying a second set of chains (to cover all 4 tires) and using them in the mud and snow, or Aussie locking the front (for low speed stuff), or maybe going to a more aggressive (but ice- capable !!!) tire without loosing too many MPG or changing tire size. Leaning towards the tires today, but I don't want tires that wear fast (Trxus MT) or use up too many MPG.

What would you do? Please don't respond if you "increased" your traction with light bars and shiny wheels

/bored-while-studying-at-3am thread

crolison

I would definitely go for a more aggressive for most of those trails (minus the light snow).

Have you looked at maxxis bighorns? You can put studs in them for the ice.

Front locker will help, but you'll have a good fun time on the snowy roads.

Are you going to these places alone? I would definitely consider a winch.

Junkers88

Matt take a look at the treadwrights. Any of them that say "ultra" have little chips of stuff in the tread that gets more exposed as the rubber wears down. Great for iced up roads from what I have heard/read. I have the OTR's (non-ultra) and have only ever had one instance where they left me stuck in the snow. I wasn't really stuck I just couldn't make the hill climb although if I'd have aired down I probably could have made it. I've also only had one issue in really slick mud but that was all driver error. I can tell you for sure that these things wear like iron. I've got almost 9000 miles on mine and they haven't worn a bit.

http://treadwright.com/SearchResults...reendiamond=-1

nosfanatic2006

iTrader: (1)

I'd do tires. Check out the Nokian Vatiiva MT and the Green Diamond Icelander MT

devldogs55

I'd do tires also. A lunchbox locker on the front of IFS aint all it's cracked up to be unless it's a trail only rig.

I would get a good set of semi-agressive tires to agressive style tires and sype 'em or as was suggested - some you can put studs on.

Another set of chains would never hurt in the rig... but a winch is an amazing idea also.

Noltz

Daily driven on ice, I'd stay away from a front automatic locker. I've never done it, but I hear they're a bitch on ice. A winch is your ultimate backup, but chains couldn't hurt.

I'd get the chains, just because it's inexpensive and could save you from a stuck.

Alex 400

I love my bighorns. I would look into those. I only lost 1.5 mpg on the freeway with these.

Matt16

I don't want to do studded tires as I can't afford two sets of tires and its illegal to run studs year round here.

Junkers88

The Treadwrights aren't studded. I'll look again but I'm almost 100% certain that they are legal for on-road use all year.

edit:http://treadwright.com/images/Ultra%...tra%20Grip.pdf

INFINITY

do the treadwright ULTRAs read up on them on the site. they are so pose to act like studs as far as traction in ice

904_runner

I have a front locker and its nice in the snow. Didn't go above 30 mph though, it was offroad though. On the road i only use 2wd cause i don't need the 4wd. LOCKED FT/RR = AWESOME!!!



BTW matt, the Trxus mt's are a GREAT tire in the snow/mud.
They ride really nice on the road, but they do wear quick. ive probably used 40% of the in about two semesters of school. I drive at least 40 miles a day. the locker chews them up, especially how i drive with it.

IF you live in the snow they would last a ton longer than me driving on asphalt all day/everyday. I have taken them on countless wheeling trips and no damage what so ever.

I have put at least 8,000 miles on them. And they are now about 60% ish. I would guess between 8000-10000 miles for 40%. It isn't bad for an aggressive tire.

SMOD

I hate ice! I live in it too, but not as bad as you do, Matt.

I have everything stock on my runner as far as tires and diffs and suspension right now.
I drive really slow in the ice and just drive super cautious.

People in GV, where I live say the bigger tires give less traction in the snow and a front wheel drive car does really well. I think people are on crack. I'd take a 4wd over a Fwd any day. As far as big tires I think they do better than tinny tires.

You can also get your tire hot knifed for a little better traction on the road, even though it's meant for rockcrawling, I think it would make better traction also.

Or, if I were you I'd get a spare set of tires that have studs on them and switch them on your runner when needed, thank goodness its not that bad where I live.

With my conditions here in GV, I can get by with a stock rig, but i'm going to either weld my rear diff or put a spool in and 33s for better traction and I will be unstopable here.

Hope you find something that works out well for ya.

tc

Lockers front and rear FTW.

Don't matter what kind of tires you have or chains/no chains when a wheel comes off the ground, you lose all motive force to that axle with open diffs.

Alex 400

Even without the studs, they are still great tires. in the snow and mud they are great and they really don't handle half bad on the street. if you are not going to have them studded, you should have them at least siped for extra ice traction.

Matt16

I think the front locker will have to be decided by test driving someone's frt locked truck in snow.

I commute 30 miles a day over pavement often on wet pavement (with locker on wet streets, often the inside tire scrubs- this contributes significantly to wear).

Been reading about Firestone Destination MTs, they seem too good to be true. I'd probably have them siped. While this would provide good linear traction, I wonder what the lateral traction would be like with sipes all going perpendicular to the line of travel.



Also thinking about the General Grabber AT2:



Maybe even the Cooper ST (PS, does this guy look maybe a little too enthusiastic?):

okie81

Yeah, that guy seems pretty excited about that Cooper tire

You could sipe the center tread block only...

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

It always makes me laugh when people open with the statement "I beleive this or that is better, but never tried it but read it." Whatever.

I didn't go with the BFG M/T cuase they have weak like 2ply sidewalls which limits the airing down ability. And we got a lot of roots and rocks. I decided on firestone destination m/T and have 0 complaints and I air down regulary to 5-8psi. I thought that having a set of BFG A/Ts in 33/10.5 to swap out would be a good idea but the firestones get [U]far[U] better wet road traction. I know I've tried both.

I'm locked it the FR/RR on ice I find that having it in 4wd limits the tendency to fishtail with throttle. I don't have problems but I focus on the road. As both front tires have the same power so if half the road has ice and the other gives better traction the front will pull to the traction side. Not a big deal if your paying attention and don't drive like a bat outa hell.

As for wider tire, I'm on 12.5 and agree that they don't give the greatest traction in light snow. But once again not a big deal for me, I know my truck and can anticipate its actions so I take my time. Remember that starting is usually not the issue in slick conditions its stopping, thats why I get a huge laugh at people in the ditch. Especially when they fly by me and I see them a little further up the road in the ditch.

X2 on get a winch.

Matt16

I'm totally with you there. That said, often I find myself on slick surfaces where all the tires have near equal traction. In these cases where the tires are all at the limits of cohesion, I've found the rear locker doesn't really add much capability (in this case!!!)- let me explain for our unlocked friends: if both tires on an unlocked axle are using 90 and 100% of their traction respectively, then when the tire slips (the 100% tire will slip first as its closer to the limit), the other tire will stand still. Add a locker in the same situation, and you only gain 10% more grip on one tire (which is next to nothing).

As TC stated, lockers are amazing for situations in which a tire is lifted as brake biasing with open diffs barely works at all and requires an amazing feat of the feet (haha) with a manual. By the way, this does theoretically work with an open diff as the faster slipping tire (one with least traction) will receive more braking force due due to the increases distance the pads will travel around the rotors (no, pads don't travel around the rotors, but its easier to explain that way. The pads are traveling relative to the rotors though). As this equal force is applied over a longer distance than on the non-slipping tire, it expends more energy and "brake biases" sending traction through the spider gears to the tire with traction. Does this work in real life? A bit in some situations, but its not going to put Eaton, Tractech or ARB out of business.

Saddly, an ARB isn't in the cards for me at this moment in time (lots of tuition fees), so my locker choices are limited to lunchbox units (Aussie, LR ,...)

Alex 400

a lot of folks here in ellensburg run those coopers. I have sipes in my toyos and it did make a difference but there are already so many in the toyo a/t's that they didn't really need it. Toyos A/Ts or the nitto terra grappler are good tires. I don't know if the nitto is available in the right size. The cooper sst's are also a pretty good mud tire with quite a bit of factory siping.I have heard good things about them from people who have used them.

Matt16

Yes, I do go places alone, but I won't be getting a winch. I have a Hi Lift (configured as a come-along), shovels, traction mats (ok, they're floor mats, but they work in snow).