mochester

Any good stuff to say about it? i was thinking about adding some to my diff. oils and maybe the transmission

rdharper

Makes sense to me.

Brenjen

My advice?..Don't. I saw a test on Lucas additive & it negates the anti-foaming agents in the oil. It froths up in a heartbeat once you break a certain threshold of speed with the gears. Might as well add water to your diffs. I'll google around & see if I can find the video of that test.


No video yet but check this site out: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

CoedNaked

Don't bother. Just save the $$$ you'd spend on this stuff and put it towards some good synthetic fluids the next time you change your gear oil.

WATRD

If you are using a decent oil, you don't need any additives beyond what is already in it.

rdharper

What was the RPMs used in that objective test?

A poorly designed test can be more misleading than no test at all.

I'm suspicious of Bob's objectivity.

People vote with their feet... from experience. That is why Toyota is number one. That is why truckers use Rotella T. That is why people give positive reports on Lucas products from actual personal use.

All that having been said, I'd love to see Bob's test done under controlled conditions, with a Lucas oil representative present to validate the test.

ovrrdrive

I had a motor blow with lucas in it...

I don't know how "subjective" I can be now though, so if I say Lucas is crap and doesn't do what its supposed to you can take it with a grain of salt.

If this stuff was that great Mobil1 would have it in there already.

rdharper

Fair enough. Maybe a poll is in order. As to Mobil1, you'd think so as they and Shell have huge research budgets. Notice that neither company (including Lucas) publishes their test results (to my knowledge).

Otoh, by that arguement, Ford and Chevy would be number one in this country, as they have had a lot of advantages, including a huge research budget. Making the best product possible and then waiting for word-of-mouth to catch up with the facts, can be a very long term payoff. This is a strategy that American companies have not been willing to invest in.

Brenjen

I don't recall what RPM's the test gears got to when the additive foamed up & I can't find the video of it & don't know who did it or under what conditions. Without being there & seeing it firsthand myself I can't say 100% what was true anyway.

I personally would not care if a Lucas oil rep was there or not, they would probably cry foul regardless of how the test was performed; as would any others that the results of the test didn't show in a favorable light. As far as Bobs objectivity, I agree with you. He has sponsors so anything he says could possibly be an attempt to pacify them instead of tell the truth.

Back in the early '80s I was a big fan of Slick 50 because it had a high concentration of molybdenum disulfide. I used it in all my lubrication needs. I even lubed my rifles with it..stripped them down, oiled them up all over with a thin layer & baked them in the oven @ 200 deg. for an hour. I never had to apply oil again after that, just wipe 'em down.

Then Slick 50 changed. The guy who developed it was forced out in one of those "hostile corporate take overs" & the oil giant who bought the formula stopped adding moly sulfide & started making it with PTFE, basically just liquid teflon from what I've read. Who wants to pour teflon in their engine?

Basically; Ive never trusted any of the snake oils after that. Moly is good stuff but all the big companies know of it's benefits. It was not long after the big moly craze of the early '80s that 100% synthetic hit the shelves from major brands at an affordable price. You could get it earlier but it was expensive, I think Amsoil came out in the early 70's but it was more of a specialty item then than it is now & there was no internet to buy it from. Plus in it's infancy there were problems with the oil eating up rubber, the myth that it still does is around today.

I'm just one of those people who believe in quality filtration & quality oil; changed at regular intervals or whenever it begins to feel, look & smell dirty. I don't believe there is a additive out there that will do anything useful unless it's a detergent to clean injectors; & even then you have to wonder if that super high concentration of cleaner is causing damage to the rubber seals in them.

Synthetic oil is mature & works well, just use it in conjunction with good filtration where appropriate (engine/tranny) & you won't waste your money buying snake oil when you could be using it for other things. There is no such thing as a mechanic in a can folks. /:off soapbox:/

That's just my opinion, no offense to people who believe in the benefits of oil additives. If we run into each other on a trail we can still spot for each other, pull each other out & have a good laugh as well as a pint or two

MMA_Alex

You're better off spending the money on a good quality oil. There wont be an additive that will mix well with every oil out there. Different oil manufacturers use different oil additives, and they are well tested. The oil additive maker would have to test it with every oil made, and say that it works well with each one. Lucas is also expensive stuff, and you might as well just spend the money on a better quality synth oil, and just change it more often instead of wasting the money on putting additives in it.

rdharper

Can't say I disagree with anything you've said. Not to mention my experience has been roughly the same as yours with the exception of Slick 50, as I'd learned the same lessons as you back in the 60's and 70's.

But I've paid attention to the fact that Lucas is getting good press here while at the same time steadily expanding their marketshare over the years. Not proof of anything, but I pay attention.

And my personal experience has been good so far. I had a small leak in two vehicles PS, my '94 4Runner and my '84 Volvo 760 GLE Turbo Diesel. No question that worked.

I have been using the "heavy duty oil stabilizer" this way. I use a very thin 5w-40w Rotella T synthetic in my vehicles. But at 1/2 quart low, usually around 2.5k, I add 1/2 quart of Lucas. This then holds to 5k where I change oil and filter.

In the case of the Volvo, I add 1/2 quart over the full line from the start (for reasons too complex and not of interest to Toyota owners in general. At 155k miles that engine is notorious for all kinds of problems, I have had none with it. (It uses 1/2 quart in 5k miles) In fact there are very few of these engines sill running in the US, much less running well).

I will be trying the Lucas additive to the transmission at the next oil change as a prophelactic for the automatic on the Volvo.

I've added nothing to my Honda Rincon ATV, as that has an automatic which shares oil with the engine. And the engine is very new.

As to an additive to the gear oil, I may top off if and when necessary with the "oil stabilizer" as I think it may help with seals. I'm not worried about foaming and don't believe it will happen. But of course, that is an educated guess at this point.

Also I use Lucas "upper cyclinder lubricant" in the diesel. 3.5 oz per 22 gal tank. But I depend on Chevron Techron to deal with injectors in my gas engines.

That is all anecdotal of course. As I said, I can not disagree with anything you've said, and, again, your experience parallels my own for the most part.

We shall see.

dcg9381

I have no objection either way to the marketing of Lucas or any of the oil "additives".

My comments are theses:

1) If major oil manufacturers could produce an oil that was chemically superior as far as independent lab tests, they'd probably do so and gain a marketing advantage. IE - if oils were lacking an additive that would give a marketing/performance advantage, they'd probably get it in short order.

2) The "demos" that I see in auto stores for Lucas, which consist of a series of gears turned by a hand crank appear to work. The reason - quite simple: Lucas is less viscous than the conventional oil in the "demo" - basically add any heavier oil on a set of gears and it will "hold" better. It'd call it a form of "captain obvious" advertising. Compare two oils of the same weight side by side and you won't see a difference.

No idea in regard to foaming... I run one of two oils: dino or synthetic depending on the application.

rdharper

I've used the argument myself.

But at the risk of appearing cynical, were it only that simple. There is price to consider. And the technology of producing a product in high volume. And market share...etc.

If McDonalds could produce a healthy menu, they'd do it?

If Detroit could produce a vehicle that was easy to work on, met all emmission standards, and lasted 200K miles, they'd do it?

Or even, if Detroit could focus on quality (really), they'd do it?

Or if the medical profession could sell real health care, instead of being a bunch of drug pushers, they'd do it?

Or if the legal profession could produce justice rather than self-enrichment, they'd do it?

Or if politicians could put their country above holding power and perks, they'd do it?

Or if the education system could focus on educating students rather than job security and administrative overhead, they'd do it?

Sorry... couldn't resist shooting ducks.

95ToyotaPU007

rdharper

Why not both?

Robrt32

I don't do aditives, I changed oil 1 time in a 86 ford i had.. It ran sweet never used any oil between changes.. I decided when i changed oil i would add a can of morleys stabilizer, Within 1500 miles it started using oil.. It may not have had nothing to do with it, but from now on i'm not putting nothing but good oil in my stuff, just like my dad always done, he ran his trucks forever with very little motor problems.......

Brenjen

I have seen straight tranny fluid & diesel run in an engine as a flush & it worked. That being the case, I'm sure oil additives aren't going to cause an engine or other components to "blow up" but I do question the validity of their cost vs. benefits.

I believe in straight Mobil-1 because of this: I overheated my 1979 Z28 to the point it shut down on me while using Castrol syntec, I had to let it sit for over an hour before it would start again; I burnt a valve doing that.

A few years ago I had the fan on my 1986 Dodge power ram get into my radiator on a little off-road adventure. I was a good way from my friends house, around six miles, & I drove it back there. It died on me many times from over heating, we used anything we could get our hands on to put in the radiator including pee & muddy ditch water. I waited at his place for several hours to let it get stone cold while we ate crawdads & partied; after a while I decided to try to get it home, another three miles. I made it. That 360 was old & tired before that happened, but I was using Mobil-1 & would you believe I still have that same old 360 chugging along in the old dog with no major repairs? I doubt there is an oil additive on the market that could have helped that oil perform better. Yes it's in need of rings etc. but it was before that happened lol. I would not have been at all surprised if it had spun a bearing or just locked up, but it didn't. By all rights it should have, after that I was sold on Mobil-1...the best additive there is for an engine IMHO (Humble opinion that is)

CJM

The trans fix slip stuff they sell works, my old camry was proof as it made it ALOT better. But the oil additives I dont like, never have.

I believe in timely flushes of all fluids and knockon wood aint nothing happened yet. Every 3k oil, every 15-20k air filter, every 15-20k trans full flush, every 20k gear old change, every 20k transfer case flush, every 2 years coolant and brake flush...I mean if you always change out the fluids, maintain the mechanicals your good to go. Almost at 200k now on the original trans, PO chnage dit every 15k..

Brenjen

That's sort of along the lines of what I'm trying to say. Lots of different things will do what they claim; but nothing beats high quality parts & fluids & regular maintenance.

Brake fluid added to a slipping automatic tranny will stop it from slipping for a while, adding in a quart of thicker fluid, say Type F in a tranny that uses Dexron will make it shift more solid, a spoonful of cream of wheat will stop a radiator leak etc. All those "shade tree" things will do the same things as treatments you buy, would anyone recommend doing it?

I've been wanting to try a product made by the guy who invented Slick-50 called "Lubrilon" but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'd like to see someone make a video/pictoral log of real world results with before & after numbers, fuel mileage, temperature tests, compression tests, oil analysis etc.

I guess until you see it from your own numbers or someone you trust it's a matter of personal opinion/experience & whether or not you believe the tests done by manufacturers or others.

Time for some Yota-tech testers!

thook

Interesting discussion.

Mochester,
I would say it depends on what oils you are already using and what shape it is in. But, if you are just now changing to fresh oil, why not just go with a good synthetic.....like Red Line, Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc? They don't need stabilizers and what not because the molecules are more uniform (than dino's) and tend to have a higher flash point giving them a longer, more stabile life.