Locking Hubs...manual or auto??????
11-02-2007, 09:32 AM
#1
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Locking Hubs...manual or auto??????
i wanna hear from people who have run each one of these. i want to know the advanctage and disadvantage to both. whats the benefit of going from auto to manual? why stick with auto? why got manual? and where can i get blue aisin manual locking hubs?
better mpg i think too
11-02-2007, 09:40 AM
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The advantage of manual hubs is that when locked, they stay locked. The disadvantage is that one needs to get out of the vehicle in order to lock/unlock them.
The advantage of auto hubs is that they engage automatically...no need to leave the vehicle. The disadvantage is that they momentarily unlock during times when one either backs up or goes forward.
IMHO, if the auto hubs work, there is little reason to switch to manual hubs.
The advantage of auto hubs is that they engage automatically...no need to leave the vehicle. The disadvantage is that they momentarily unlock during times when one either backs up or goes forward.
IMHO, if the auto hubs work, there is little reason to switch to manual hubs.
Last edited by JackKnife; 11-02-2007 at 09:52 AM.
11-02-2007, 09:41 AM
#4
Covered many times but here are some high points.
Auto
The suck
Unlock in reverse
Costly to repair if you can find some that arent junk already
Manual
The bomb
Unlock manually when you want
Cheaper than repairing auto
Easy to convert from auto
We have Aisins and parts on the website.
Auto
The suck
Unlock in reverse
Costly to repair if you can find some that arent junk already
Manual
The bomb
Unlock manually when you want
Cheaper than repairing auto
Easy to convert from auto
We have Aisins and parts on the website.
11-02-2007, 09:41 AM
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11-02-2007, 02:07 PM
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http://4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/autohub/
ADD is like having manual hubs always locked, hence your CV's will always be turning even if you are not in 4wd. Manual hubs just give you the option of unlocking them so your CV's don't spin under normal driving conditions. If you want blue ones, either paint them yourself or buy them from someone that has painted them already. Stock Aisins for Toyota IFS only come with a red dial.
ADD is like having manual hubs always locked, hence your CV's will always be turning even if you are not in 4wd. Manual hubs just give you the option of unlocking them so your CV's don't spin under normal driving conditions. If you want blue ones, either paint them yourself or buy them from someone that has painted them already. Stock Aisins for Toyota IFS only come with a red dial.
11-02-2007, 03:31 PM
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So, because the auto hub will unlock for maybe 1/4 turn of the axle when one backs up it is bad? I think not. If one in on a slick surface, the tires will probably slip more than that!!
11-02-2007, 10:41 PM
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11-02-2007, 11:01 PM
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x2, I'm not sure what he means be 1/4 turn,
I am fairly certain that they are "unlocked" all the time when you are backing up [ like when you disengage them, it's the moving foreward part with 4wd off that actually "disengages" them, because they are no longer receiving and foreward spin from the driveline, so they spin freely ]
I could be totally wrong, as I am not and expert by any means
He might have auto hubs? the previous owner could have installed a set? (god knows why) does anybody know for certain that toyota didn't import trucks/4runners to Belieze with auto hubs? not that I care it they did or didn't, but who knows?
I am fairly certain that they are "unlocked" all the time when you are backing up [ like when you disengage them, it's the moving foreward part with 4wd off that actually "disengages" them, because they are no longer receiving and foreward spin from the driveline, so they spin freely ]
I could be totally wrong, as I am not and expert by any means
He might have auto hubs? the previous owner could have installed a set? (god knows why) does anybody know for certain that toyota didn't import trucks/4runners to Belieze with auto hubs? not that I care it they did or didn't, but who knows?
11-03-2007, 01:14 AM
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I said that. Auto hubs work in both forwards and reverse.
When the front axle rotates either forwards or backwards, the hub will lock. When the direction of travel is changed, the hub will momentarily unlock. If the transfercase is in 4WD, the axle will continue to rotate and cause the hub to re-engage in approximately a 1/4 turn. If the transfercase is in 2WD, the axle will stop rotating when the hub disengages and the hub will remain unlocked. This is how auto hubs work. If you don't believe me, find a truck with auto hubs and rotate the axle by hand.
So, to sum it up...if one is in 4WD and moves forwards then one needs to reverse in 2WD in order to disengage the hubs. If one is in 4WD in reverse, then one needs to move forwards in 2WD to disengage the hubs.
When the front axle rotates either forwards or backwards, the hub will lock. When the direction of travel is changed, the hub will momentarily unlock. If the transfercase is in 4WD, the axle will continue to rotate and cause the hub to re-engage in approximately a 1/4 turn. If the transfercase is in 2WD, the axle will stop rotating when the hub disengages and the hub will remain unlocked. This is how auto hubs work. If you don't believe me, find a truck with auto hubs and rotate the axle by hand.
So, to sum it up...if one is in 4WD and moves forwards then one needs to reverse in 2WD in order to disengage the hubs. If one is in 4WD in reverse, then one needs to move forwards in 2WD to disengage the hubs.
Last edited by JackKnife; 11-03-2007 at 01:16 AM.
11-03-2007, 03:08 AM
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i had auto hubs and changed to Aisin. even if they do re-engage in reverse, they are very unreliable. that's a given. if you could count on them re-engaging in a quarter turn in reverse, that's one thing. even if i could find a truck with auto hubs, chances are that they don't work. with manual hubs and ADD, you know that they are locked so there's no question if the wheels are turning with your front axles.
Last edited by typical8o8; 11-03-2007 at 03:27 AM.
11-03-2007, 04:03 AM
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Typical8o8, I disagree with you on auto hubs being unreliable. My auto hubs have seen many miles and plenty of use. With proper maintenance, they should last a very long time. I also disagree with your opinion that ADD is reliable. The ADD system has quite a few items that can fail and have been known to. I do, however, agree with you that manual hubs are the most reliable. And if someone wants or needs the peace of mind of having this reliability, I won't begrudge anyone of this.
I keep seeing people claiming that auto hubs don't work in reverse. And, I have more or less made it one of my missions to dispel this myth.
I keep seeing people claiming that auto hubs don't work in reverse. And, I have more or less made it one of my missions to dispel this myth.
11-03-2007, 04:23 AM
#19
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They work fine in reverse unless you're rocking the truck back and forth trying to unstick yourself. I'd probably still be driving my auto's on my '86 if the drivers hub hadn't disengaged while removing myself from an obstical.
11-03-2007, 05:39 AM
#20
Typical8o8, I disagree with you on auto hubs being unreliable. My auto hubs have seen many miles and plenty of use. With proper maintenance, they should last a very long time. I also disagree with your opinion that ADD is reliable. The ADD system has quite a few items that can fail and have been known to. I do, however, agree with you that manual hubs are the most reliable. And if someone wants or needs the peace of mind of having this reliability, I won't begrudge anyone of this.
I keep seeing people claiming that auto hubs don't work in reverse. And, I have more or less made it one of my missions to dispel this myth.
I keep seeing people claiming that auto hubs don't work in reverse. And, I have more or less made it one of my missions to dispel this myth.
If you are going to wheel (rock crawl) or drive anywhere with the possibility to get stuck and need to shift back and forth from forward to reverse in a short space (dont this tons of times), auto hubs are useless.
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/autohub/
"Toyota has always used Aisin manual hubs. They are the best available hub on the market for your Toyota. Their quality and strength surpasses all aftermarket hubs. Unfortunately, their price also surpasses all aftermarket brands. Buying a 'new' pair of Aisin is out of the question. If you need to replace a hub visit a wreck yard and buy a used Aisin, or get a pair of new aftermarket hubs with a lifetime warranty.
With manual hubs, IF you have both hubs LOCKED, you will be able to shift into 4WD at any safe speed.
ADD (automatic differential disconnect) equipped trucks have no locking hubs. Instead they have a plate bolted in place, locking the axle to the wheel. This has the same effect as having your hubs locked ALL the time. ADD was used in both trucks (1989-current) and 4Runners (1990-current). The ADD system is its stock form is capable of shift-on-the-fly.
Toyota AUTO Hub
Here is the AUTO hub. It can be found on trucks from 1984-1988, and on 4Runners from 1984-1989. Do not confuse this with ADD. AUTO hubs are NOT similar to ADD. The AUTO hub has a clutch inside that will lock the hub when it receives forward movement of the axle. Since the axles are not always spinning with this design, you must come to a COMPLETE stop before shifting into 4WD. Under no circumstances can you shift into 4WD while in motion with the AUTO hubs.
The AUTO hub will unlock after 1/4 turn of the axle in reverse. This is the major flaw to the design. Often on the trail we need to back up in 4WD. Especially if the vehicle is stuck, and we're trying to free it by backing out of the hole it is in. With the AUTO hubs, once you shift into reverse and begin to turn the driveline the hubs will unlock, and you'll be left with only 2WD in reverse. The will eventually lock into 4WD again, but having them unlock on you at all is very troublesome.
AUTO hubs are notoriously unreliable. The springs inside the hub often break, and the hub will no longer engage. Repairing these hubs is VERY expensive, and replacing them with new AUTO hubs is out of the question. New AUTO hubs are priced in the hundreds of dollars.
The best thing you can do is to replace your AUTO hubs with manual locking hubs. You will increase the reliability of your 4WD system many times over by getting rid of the AUTO hubs, and you will gain the ability to shift-on-the-fly, assuming you're driving with the manual hubs LOCKED."
