sa51

heres my problem[i know the simple solution is to swap in a solid axle, but i cant afford that yet lol] my truck sits bowlegged, and i'm wearing out the outer edge of my front tires. theres about an inch and a half of torsion lift that the previous owner cranked in.
now, i had the shop who installed my tires do an alignment on it, but the camber is still off. i later found a receipt for firestone on my floor, apparently they took it to firestone to get it aligned.wtf. could it be that the incompetent techs at firestone are incapable of adjusting my camber? might i need new A arm bushings? i know other torsion bar yotas do not have this problem as i've seen them without the issue i have. and neither do the tacomas.
i just need some advice before i go to get it aligned again, i hate IFS but i'm stuck with it for now, and i dont want to wear anymore tires out.

thanks guys

abecedarian

it's entirely possible the firestone techs were inept.
it's also possible that your bushings are worn.

first thing to check on your own is that the distance between the front edge of the frame where the lower control arms bolt in is the same distance as the rear of the frame where the lower control arms bolt in- basically making sure that the lower control arm mounts aren't bent in some way. If those are the same distance, or maybe within 1/8" of each other, ANY alignment shop should be able to get the alignment done correctly.
next, make sure your bushings aren't worn.

if the outer edge of the tires are wearing, only two things will affect that- camber and toe. if the frame is straight, there is nothing preventing having the camber and toe set properly, other than an inept alignment tech.
a good tech will even be able to tell you if there's an issue with your wheel bearing(s), ball joints, or tie rod(s).

sa51

thank you very much for your input, i'll check that first thing tommorow.
do you think i should take it straight to toyota for alignment? at least i know their techs are trained. and are more likely to point out any issues. and its only 60 bucks there as opposed to the 80 i spent at the shop that took it to firestone. my buddy "knows a guy" but i dont know if its worth risking another incompetent mechanic,and he's not open on saturdays.

not only did the shop that mounted my tires take it to firestone without telling me, it still pulled to the right after they gave it back. i took it back to the shop, showed them the receipt i found on the floor, told them what i thought of firestone, and had them take it back. upon return the truck didn't pull to the right, but it was still somewhat bowlegged. my theory is firestone didn't know what they were doing.

my bearings are fresh, but i will look into the tie rods and ball joints.

abecedarian

in my experience, firestone actually does do a decent job on alignments, even with 4wd / modified vehicles. maybe it was a tech that has no experience with the 'yota'... don't know.

if the dealer is willing to do it for 60, then by all means take it to them.

sa51

that was my first experience with an alignment from them. i have had good and bad experiences with them, the past 2 times [in fl] were not good alas.

tommorow is another day ... i just hope nothing is bent lol

downey off road has a bolt in brace for the empty space in the rear of the control arm mounts, its 50 bucks and i'm thinking it could be well worth it.

thanks again for your advice

tc

Welllll, .... here's the thing ... it's getting VERY difficult to find an actual "alignment tech" these days. "Alignment machine operator" would be a better description IMHO. The problem lies in making major adjustments - if the truck is close, they can nail it, but they really don't understand the interaction between major caster, camber, and toe corrections.

My recommendation? Do it yourself - at least get it close - then take it back to them to put on the machine and get it dead nuts.

Search for a thread started by elripster on how to do alignment yourself.

tc

The Sonoran Steel brace is better - seriously beefy and provides a great place to anchor a real skidplate to.

abecedarian

no need to search for the elripster alignment instructions:
http://www.sdori.com/SDORI_4WD_Align...ions_Main.html

abecedarian

the problem with the elripster / sdori instructions is that they reference the rear axle for 'toe', and there's absolutely no guarantee that the rear springs... the 'thrust angle' as it is, is "true"- no guarantee the frame is straight even. So referencing the rear tires is absolutely wrong at worst, and acceptable at best.

tc

Agreed - but my point is to use those instructions to get it close enough that an "alignment machine operator" will be in their zone of producing good results, and it will do that for sure.

abecedarian

well, I gave the link.

here it is again, if you missed...
http://www.sdori.com/SDORI_4WD_Align...ions_Main.html

Matt16

I'm pretty sure they don't make one anymore, but I bet you could take the design to a shop and have them make one up for about the same price.

VSU_4runnin

95 and newer yotas especially 4runner/taco with IFS are extremely hard to align.. they have nearly 6 different camber alignment locations. A lift tends to help in the expediency of the unaligning process... Usually 4runners and taco alignments cost several dollars more due to this fact. you need to make sure it is either a yota cert. tech. Or a shop you know and trust who knows about yota suspensions (ASE cert tech helps alot) NTB usually knows what they are doing.. or even 4wheel parts, if there is a store near you, but they tend to be a little pricey

abecedarian

don't mean to sound disrespectful or anything of the sort, but where do you come up with "95 and newer..." with respect to the front end alignment adjustments?

The lift kit on my 88 was applicable to 86-95... the lift on my 91 is applicable to 79-95. So how does 95 have alignment adjustments that weren't available on the say... 94?
...unless you are referencing the mid 95 switch to the Tacoma, where some 95's were of the old design and some of the 95's were of the newer design. Is that what you meant? In which case I could say that it started in late 94.

sa51

i'm def going to to take it to toyota, unfortunatly i dont have time to mess with it myself as i'm supposed to take a trip saturday. and i havn't even finished painting the damn thing lol. hopefully they can work it out. and hopefully nothing is bent.

i'm bookmarking that link though for future reference.

VSU_4runnin

I was referring to the mid 95 switch.. but i included the 4runner as well since 95-96 ish was when they started making the taco and 4runner front suspensions, diffs etc interchangeable as well there werent as many adjustments until 3rd gen.. but they started in late 95 i think, because thats when the 3rd gen majpr body style components really started to take hold

abecedarian

cool.
as long as everyone reading the thread realizes there is an ambiguity amongst those years.

VSU_4runnin

yah its alright...I just usually include 95s in with the 3rd gens...i guess i assume a little too much sometimes... thanks for clearing that up.... btw i like your quote

elripster

This is not a problem. This is what the alignment rack will do.

You have 4 wheels, two are adjustable as far as alignment is concerned. Align the fronts to the rears. It's the best that can be done regardless of vehicle frame/suspension condition.

As for the "bow legged" look, keep in mind the spec is from 0 to 1.5 degrees positive camber. You can visibly detect 1.5 degrees of camber with your eye, easily. The reason the camber is specified this way is to encourage under steer. Trucks typically have a tendency to over steer. This helps the front wheel lean over onto its outer edge slightly faster than the outer rear wheel causing it to lose traction sooner. The front then slides first resulting in under steer.

I set my camber at 0 and the truck has excellent road manners and tire wear characteristics. This method on our website is very easy and many of us use it. It's there to help you save money and you are welcome to use it or not.

Frank

elripster

This is very true. I have done this method and then taken the truck to the dealer to see the before and after. Not only will these instructions get you within spec but my truck drove more straight before the dealer tinkered with it. I went and readjusted it and restored the before-dealer-alignment drive quality.

If you plan to taking your truck in, you should try aligning it yourself just for fun. You can see how close you got and probably use that to successfully align it yourself in the future.

Frank