Gamefreakgc

Yes, try this link on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

cferrera3

Doing that 7MGE upgrade you have as well as the injectors. If I did my research correctly, the difference in the orange vs the grey tops is one is a bosch injector and puts out more fuel than the orange tops...? Can anyone clarify for me? Trying to decide which to go with. This is a daily driver 2wd. Right now I get about 28-31mpg highway cruising at 70mph all day no issues. But can use a little more if need be in that respect and I want a little more pep when towing my mud truck. Thank you

RSR

Gray Bosch is 4 hole spray, atomized.

Orange Denso is one hole fan spray, atomized.

The orange and gray are for V6s.

With those mpgs, I'm assuming you're a 22re. And I'm pretty sure factory 22re injectors have an atomized fuel spray already, but definitely something to search about...

cferrera3

No, its a 3.0l. In reality I have doing about 66-65mph when at 70mph. Has the stock 14" rims vs the 15" but same size tire wise other than that. It is just a healthy 5 speed v6. Guaranteed around town I am getting about 19-21mpg and I am no grandpa/grandma driving. Now if I add a load to her such as my mud truck I might be getting 14-17mpg on its best day. But I pulled my injectors to clean them and they need replaced. Also upgrading the VAFM to the supra 7MGE style and going to do an exhaust and find an old upper and lower intake and to a port and polish with a port match on them and match the gasket and such. Just get more air into the motor to perform more efficiently. I drive 100 miles a day for work. but if you do the math which I have, the error of mileage vs the mpg is only off by 1-1.5mpg at the most. So the error margin isn't that bad. So I get anywhere in realistic numbers 26.5-29.5mpg highway being conservative and going with the largest margin of error.

RSR

14-17 mpg in town and 26-29 on the highways seems like exceptional mileage to me...

I run 12 - 14 in town and 18-20 on highways, AC on the lower end and off the high end...

That said, apologies for the confusion.

cferrera3

No problem. Everyone always seconds me making sure I actuallyt have a v6 when I claim those numbers. Nothing new lol. But back to the topic. I hear a lot of bad things when we put bosch products on our trucks. Should I go with denso or go with bosch? The bosch has a much nicer vapor pattern than the denso and can also flow up to 8% more fuel without affecting mileage. Any suggestions? I have only read mixed reviews with success and some without and but all claim when they work great the power curve is insane difference. Right now I know mine wont kick in until about 24-2600rpms and than it wakes up until I hit 5k and than its a dog again!

RSR

His mileage claim I don't think is correct on gray (prob is on orange); our engines don't account for extra fuel flow all the time... He has to sell plug and play though... Can't advertise to maximize that you need to do X, Y, and Z -- spend at least again what the injectors cost on the wideband 02 setup, especially since mis-adjustment on the lean burns up pistons; open up a sealed AFM unit to adjust airflow at both idle and spring tension (when a hand slip will unwind the spring and ruin a $300+ dealer part); and then try to ensure that everything is w/in spec with just a wideband 02 and knowing what the engine should be doing... Too much liability.
So instead, FT says it's fine but will run rich which primarily wastes fuel but might burn up your cat core more quickly than it otherwise would if your run a lot at idle adn/or wide open throttle. To put it into perspective, adding a 7th injector (+ ~16% flow) is common in the 3.4 5vzfes w/ superchargers -- adding Flamethrower grays at +8% flow is 1/2 of the flow that's needed on the next gen w/ a supercharger...

But since doing the Supra AFM and will be adjusting, you'll need a wideband 02 sensor installed to properly tune that. So I don't see harm on the Bosch. Again, look up closed vs open loop. On our early OBD1 trucks, the computer only uses sensors to control fuel/account for actual flow from above idle up to 70-80% open throttle. Otherwise, it just references spreadsheet table it has stored that recognizes only stock configurations (and can't adjust fuel without adding a variable fuel pressure gauge and a piggyback fuel controller... Not ideal.). So you adjust air flow to match fuel flow w/ the AFM -- computer doesn't recognize or account for more air, but with the wideband 02 we know it's running stoich (not too rich, not too lean, just right -- for power lean towards 12 and for MPGs lean towards 14; but I'd keep track of air fuel ratios with wideband installed on stock system before modding to get it back in the ballpark of factory setup [our trucks these #s are still something of a mystery -- I plan to do it but haven't had time yet])...

With you MPGs, I'd keep it as stock as possible and just install the Denso; any change could break your golden egg... Forget supra and just add the Denso injectors. These trucks typically run on the rich side (yours might be running lean w/ those MPGs though...), so even with the Supra AFM, I don't know that you need the Bosch.
And only if planning to fully do your intake and opening up the heads and adding oversized valves, then yes, go ahead and get the Bosch as you'll probably finally have enough air flow to need them. But if not doing head/valve work I don't know that you need the extra flow (on the intake, I think restrictions are, in order, AFM, grille intake, dirty plenum if haven't cleaned out carbon [see my 3vze plenum cleaning article], valves, plenum, intake tubing, and throttle). Exhaust and headers (or just crossover delete) will make the intake side of things work better, but other than the factory cat back, I don't think it's a significant drag... Just my assumptions however; I dont' plan on fully fixing the intake on this engine; rather, a 3.4 (most likely) or diesel swap...

cferrera3

Mmmm, im not sure what I want to do yet honestly. Only reason I liked the bosch more was if you truly look at the mist vs the denso they offer, it is impeccable. I might just stick with the denso. I have a AFR gauge sitting in the garage. Wont take long before I hook it up. Only reason I am replacing is I NEED to do the valve cover gaskets. I go through a quart of oil a week almost. While I was there I was going to do injectors and swap in the VAFM and the wideband. How lean can I run this motor? I used to run my lightning around 15-15.5 on the highway and put over 100k miles on the set up. Ran 93 octane with a head, cam, intake truck and was getting over 30mpg highway in that beast. I know you said 14... but anyone pushed these motors?

RSR

I don't know that a lot of folks have tuned these engines for MPGs. Lean runs hot and w/ the headgasket and crossover issues, most folks who have heavily modded go for power rather than efficiency.

That's why I recommended keeping track of your rigs stock AFM readings. I run standard gas so anticipate needing to run right at 14, but that's just a preliminary estimate...

RSR

The way I'm looking at is stock isn't atomized.

By going w/ the atomized Denso, it's at least a 50% improvement. The Bosch is likely less of an improvement, but I can't quantify the add'l gains... And then there is the need for add'l tuning if running Bosch...

texturboII

Sorry for the zombie thread, but I just installed the older grey top flamethrowers and wanted to advocate their use. I bought my 94 3.0 with 230k on it. It seemed sluggish, more than I remember that the one I had in high school was anyways. Just this past weekend, with the help of the forum here I fixed a hard starting issue that was narrowed down to the cold start injector (after money and time). In the process I decided to replace all the injectors and bought the flamethrowers after reading some reviews. Here's what I think so far, after just installing them:

I've no idea how old the injectors were that were in there, but judging by their appearance I'd say they were original. I first noticed a smoother, quieter idle. Lots less ticking. I then noticed a lot more power. I do think my case is unique in the amount of power gained seeing as my cold-start was constantly dumping gas and the injectors have 230k on them, but man it's nice. No problem reaching highway speeds in a reasonable time anymore, lol. I mean it's not fast, but it feels like a whole new car.

The MPG has noticeably increased as well, once again probably unique given my situation but I've seen I estimate a 40% increase. It's only been a day, but I drive a very standardized route every day. Exactly 75 miles. This usually uses over a quarter tank from full, but has so far used a little over an eighth... I've got the trip odometer set to record the full tank and see.

I had a slight issue getting one of them to sit into the rails without leaking for some reason, but after swapping o-rings it was fine. Runs a little rich, but from what I understand the grey tops flow more. I didn't know that before I bought them, lol... Time to crack open the AFM, a little nervous about that. After a cat back I may justify them.

Anyways, older grey tops are great so far!

Flame Thrower

kind of surprised to see this thread come up again. ah, memories.

hate to disappoint those out there with a scantool, some guesswork, no data, and an axe to grind, but i find it easier to ignore you.

that being said, i have a very visible customer satisfaction rating on ebay. if i were misleading anyone about my products in any way, it would be very visible.

i sell hundreds of sets of upgrade injectors a year, and i look forward to continuing to do so well into the future.

i have been asked many times about them and we stopped selling the orange ones because the failure rate on them was just a little too high.

jdrum1

I considered trying them when you first came out with them, but got busy and pushed the idea to the back burner.


Do you only have one style now?

oldblue

after almost a year, my truck is still running like a champ!!!!

Flame Thrower

no. i am bringing a new part number (actually 2) to market as we speak. they flow within 3% of the stock injector in dynamic testing.

92yote4x4

where can i buy a set of these magical injectors and what would be best for my stock 3.0 with auto trans? mine is slow as poop and im getting 13mpg also :/

tailsgunner

Has anyone ran their truck through a dyno to see the before and after of these injectors. I hear a lot of hype...just like the K&N filter kit or headers..but no hard HP at the rear wheel.

So a lot of people say it feels stronger...but again...no long term reports. I wonder why would people buy the older ones when the newers ones are coming out. Or are they shipping the new ones now? Not much information on these...and I'm not sure why.

tailsgunner

Which ones are you running (which color)?

Thanks

Flame Thrower

i just listed the new bosch type 3 injectors on eby. $100 for the 22re and $120 for the 3vze delivered w/gasket.

tailsgunner i send you a pm with the links.

texturboII

Just finished two tanks with them on: 306 miles and 290 miles. Major improvement, very happy.

That's with the older injectors. The newer ones weren't available when I purchased them.