ToddShaw

I have a 91 toyota pu. It has a 2.4L 22RE engine. The engine was rebuilt at 250,000 miles by adams machine shop in Lancaster,CA. The engine now has 330,000 miles on it and was running great until this Wednesday when i saw the temp gage going past 1/2. Lucky i was only one mile from home. By the time i got home the temp gauge was just past 3/4 but not in the red. Thinking i just had a lose hose i let the engine cool down, opened the radiator cap and saw brown gunk in my radiator! I pulled the engine oil dip stick and the oil was just below the safe cross hatch section. The engine oil looked normal!!!! No coolant in it!!! I thought this seemed weird since i have engine oil in the radiator but no coolant in the engine oil. After doing some research it seemed the most likely suspect is the head gasket. So i pulled the head off. I was VERY careful not to disturb the head gasket so i would not destroy any evidence that it could be the culprit. The head gasket appears to be in perfect condition. I then took the head apart to try and find an obvious crack but it appears to look in perfect condition also. Today i called Adams Machine Shop for advice. They told me to pull the water pump and see it the timing chain had worn a hole in the timing chain cover. I cleaned the brown gunk from the water pump area, and still could not find any issues. I'm stumped on this one. I'm thinking i may have to pull the motor to try to find what is causing this problem. Does anyone have any advice on what else i could look at. BTW... i am taking the head in to adams machine shop to have it pressure tested to see if they can find an issue with it but that will not be for another day or 2. Thanks for any advice

ToddShaw

I just got off the phone with Adam's Machine Shop. The owner their could not find any issues with the head!!! I also brought him the head gasket to look at. He said it appears that it was not the issue neither. The owner said he showed the head and the head gasket to his brother who works there too. He too said there appears to not be any visible problems with the head gasket and the head pressure tested good. WHAT TO DO,...... WHAT TO DO!!!!!! I guess I will have to pull the engine block out this weekend and to try and get a better look at it.

I'm still hoping someone will be able to post some advice for me.
Thanks if you do!!!

osv

the good news, if there is any, is that no water in the oil means that the internal engine parts probably aren't harmed.
I'm trying to think of somewhere else, other than the head gasket and timing chain area, where there could be water and oil mixing like that?

ToddShaw

OSV, I pulled the timing chain cover off Thursday night. I cleaned up the timing chain cover and saw that the timing chain had ALMOST worn a hole into the water pump impeller area, but note i said ALMOST. Even if it had worn a hole, then the coolant would have only leaked into the timing chain area and straight into the oil pan. When i drained the oil from the oil pan the oil was normal looking.

I pickup my head from Adam's Machine Shop yesterday. They did the pressure test and checked to see if it was warped. Also, they looked at the tab that is glued to the head to see if the head had been overheated. They found NO issues with the head. The owner brought me to the back to talk with one of the main workers there. He went to his computer and check for any bulletins for this issue. He did not find any. He told me that he once saw the holes in the block for the head bolts crack which would allow oil to get into the water jackets in the block. He told me to check the 10 head bolt holes, mainly the most forward right hole. Because this is where the pressurized engine oil makes its way into the head and into the rocker arm assembly. I looked last night but did not notice anything wrong. I even called Sierra Toyota and talked to Scott B. Scott and i graduated Rosamond high school together in 1987. He has worked their since he was in high school. He too has never heard of such an issue with a 22r engine.

I'm still stumped on this issue. Starting to give up all hope on this engine. I think that there is a crack in the block. Even though nobody has ever seen this before i can't see any other areas where this could happen at.

Has anyone ever pressure tested an engine block??? I have an idea of how i MIGHT be able to do it but it will eat up a lot of my time. This is my work truck and i am currently borrowing my mother's toyota truck until i get this issue resolved.

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

75k5toy

I had that problem a long time ago, when I took the truck to the mechanic, he re-torked the head bolts, and found one with stripped treads. He just put some of that old brown gasket maker with an Indian Head on the label on that bolt, and it did the trick. good luck.

osv

these blocks can and do crack, i had a 22re that had a cracked water jacket on the outside, it was a slow leak of radiator fluid down the side of the block, but i drove it for thousands of miles like that.

this situation with water/oil mixing for unknown causes... i have a motor in my garage with that problem, even after i put a brand new head and new head gasket on it... i ended up just getting another rebuilt motor off of craigslist, which fortunately appears to be a good engine.

it's a gamble; do you replace the head gasket/timing belt/water pump, then see what happens? if there is a crack in the block, maybe it only opens up when the motor is hot? that's how my cracked block was.

tough call.

ToddShaw

I am not going to waste my money on this engine anymore. I already spent $45.00 on the head and it is not the problem. I don't want to have to buy a bunch of gaskets and sealants again which will run me about $125.00 for all, then spend all my time putting the engine back into the truck to risk finding engine oil in my radiator again.

I am going to get a new or rebuilt engine instead with at least a 1 year warranty.

As of now, I still do not know how the engine oil got into the radiator!!!!! I'm guessing that it is at the oil passage just below the #3 and #4 cylinder water jackets. AND I also think the oil gets into the water ONLY when the engine gets up to temperature like you said.

I finished pulling the motor from my truck yesterday (01-20-14). It is now on an engine stand. I'm calling around to engine/machine shops to see if there is any way i can test it, that way i can know for sure if it is cracked.

Gamefreakgc

Any chance it is transmission fluid? On the 3VZE's the autos have a transmission cooler that goes through the radiator. If that barrier were to ever fail you'd have oil in your radiator. Any chance that a 22RE is setup the same way? I'm not familiar with them as much.

kornhuskerwizard

It doesent have a add on oil cooler does it??

dedcow

at 330K miles i would say that engine served its life very well! i just bought a reman 22re long block with new head for $2000, well worth it! i have not installed it yet but that should be going in next week. any engine that gets 330K miles had some good work go in it! i would not normally expect any non diesel to get that far really.

My94yota

Deff a good idea or an oil cooler (has to be coolant cooled not air cooled obviously)....Ive never seen either happen tho but deff possible, not many people would even think about this possibility though

ToddShaw

Sorry for not responding lately. I've been out with the flu the past 3 days. Feeling better now.

My pu does not have an oil or transmission cooler.

ToddShaw

Has anyone ever bought an aftermarket NEW 22RE engine before? I've been calling around because Toyota wants $3000 for a new 22RE engine short block (block, crank and pistons). I have found out that the after market engine and parts are made in china and then assembled here in the U.S. I know that china products have a reputation for inferior quality so I'm hesitant to purchase one.

I found this website. They want $1650.00 for this aftermarket long block. http://www.japanengine.com/products/...ge=%200&pID=40
This is a long block and they do not require my old engine as a core but the big issue I have is NONE of these aftermarket engines come with a warrenty if installed by me. I think this is a bunch BS but it is what it is!!!!!!

jdrum1

If I was going to DIY the install, I’d try to find a local rebuilder. That way, if you have issues, you have someone to talk to in person.

Team420

No oil cooler? You sure about that? Aside from the head, and timing area, the oil cooler would be about the only place I would think that could happen, unless there is a crack internally in the block....

ToddShaw

Positive about that. I've been the only owner. I bought the truck brand new in 1990 with 4 miles on it.

kornhuskerwizard

No way i would pay 3k for a new engine. Id rebuild the one you have. These engines are simple to work on.

ToddShaw

I agree. With 330,000 miles on this truck, I could get alot more for my money. I don't even get a new head for that $3000.00.

Gamefreakgc

There's no way I'd ever buy an engine like that with no warranty. That's just a disaster waiting to happen.

I think you're on the right path. Seeing that you're the original owner, I'd guess that you want to keep the truck and buying another vehicle is not really a route you want to take. If that's the case, look for a decent donor engine and just re-build it yourself, or rebuild the one you have if you're confident you can fix the oil leak.

ToddShaw

The more I think about the last issue i had with this engine in 2013 the more i am confident that it is the engine block.

Back in Nov. of 2013 i brought my truck in for a smog. It FAILED bad!!! The smog shop said i only had 110PSI in the #1 & 4 cylinders and 35PSI in the #2 & 3 cylinders......... I already know what most of you are thinking....... "blown head gasket between # 2 and 3 cylinders, IT IS SOOOOO OBVIOUS!!!!!!! Same thing I thought at first and also the same thing the smog shop told me. SOOOOO, I quickly took the head off and guess what i found...... a blown head gasket NOT! So now i'm scratching my head thinking "WTH". So next i pulled the engine. I took the pistons out, careful not to destroy any evidence on the pistons. I took the piston to a buddy of mine at work. He builds engines for fun. He took one look at the #2 & 3 pistons and said "massive blow by". Having only about 65k on this rebuilt motor i was asking myself how this could happen since i am the only driver and i have never over heated the engine, EVER!!! I took the pistons to adams machine shop for them to look at. Adams machine shop rebuilt this motor in 2008 for me when a rod bearing spun at 250,000 miles. They told me the same thing "massive blow by caused by the piston rings becoming unseated". I asked how this could happen. He told me 2 ways.

1. The O2 sensors are bad. or/and
2. Clogged catalytic convertor.

A clogged cat will cause overheating around the cylinders but you will probably not see a temp rise on the instrument gauge. This is because of higher than normal back pressure and temp. cause the piston rings to loose their spring tension and become unseated from the cylinder walls.

So, based on this theory i bought a new California cat. about $750.00, 2 new O2 sensors about $135.00, and a new muffler about $200.00.

and of course i replaced the rings......
This did the trick and the truck has run great ever since then. Before i tore the engine apart this time i did a compression test of all 4 cylinders. I got #1 -148, #2 -152, #3 -150 and # 4 -152 PSI.

So my thought is that if the cat was causing excessive heat in the block, this my have started a crack in it that finally burst open between the oil passage and the water jacket somewhere in the engine block.

ANYTHOUGHTS......... anyone.....anyone......anyone.....anyone.