Phantez

I bought a lock right locker for the rear of my 87 pickup. I'm pretty good with working on stuff myself, but i figured it would be easier to pay a shop to install this lock right after looking up guides for it and having a busy schedule.

I picked up my truck from the shop last night and I had no clicking around corners and it just didn't feel right. When i got home i jacked up the rear, put the truck in gear and spun the tires by hand. The passenger rear is just locked in all the time, and the drivers side is free spinning. So i fired up the truck while it was in the air to see what it does. The passenger powers forward, and the drivers side was sitting still.

I called up the shop this morning to tell them what was going on and got the response of "Well it was working last night when we put it back together" and asked that i read stuff up online. This is the first lock right they've done. When i called back he says "I hate to tell you this, but we have to close shop. We were served papers for operating out of zone. We failed ya." It's a back yard shop and is refusing to compensate any of my $300 i paid them. So i'm stuck with a locker that doesn't work and down $300.



The point of this post - I can't justify paying another 300-400 for another shop to fix it, so I'm going to have to figure this out myself. Has anyone here had, or know of someone who has had this issue with a lunch box locker? I've never installed one myself, and i didn't get to take the 3rd member apart myself, so i don't know how everything was set originally if it wasn't assembled correctly. What could the issue be here? I'm going to take it apart tonight after work and hoping to have a few things to look for when i get the 3rd member out.

RJR

I'm familiar with the internals of the Aussie, but not the Lock-rite. I know they are similar, and it would appear that the mechanic either left out one of the side gear ratchet/clutches or got it turned around and in backwards. Also possible he left out the springs that hold the side gears in contact with each other.

If nothing else try your best to contact the shop and get any leftover parts that he forgot to put in. Then go to the Lockrite website and download the installation instructions and study them well. Also go to www.gearinstalls.com and read this article http://www.gearinstalls.com/v6lockrite.htm Zuk is one of the best at this stuff, and his pictures and step-by-step descriptions are awesome.

Then you'll have to pull out the 3rd member, inspect it, and fix what's wrong. I'm not sure if the lock-rite requires removing the ring gear to install it. If it does the gears will need to be adjusted again when you put it back together. You could always pull the 3rd, ship it to Zuk at gearinstalls.com, and have him fix it right.

Phantez

Thanks for the info RJR. I'm afraid to see what i'll find in there. I'll probably end up posting up pictures tonight if I can't spot whats wrong.

Phantez

I pulled the 3rd member out. Everything feels really loose in there. It's loose enough to where the springs can push the drivers out and barley not engage teeth if the other side is engaged, which explained why the one side was just free rolling. I looked at the spider gears that they left back in the box and there were some washers on the back of them. I'm guessing they're the thrust washers, although i've never taken one of these apart so i'm not positive. Can someone confirm for me? It looks like I need to take it apart and put those washers in.

Also, it seems like there is far too much backlash. I don't have anything to measure it with, but i would guess theres about 1/8th inch of play forwards and back on the ring gear. I did some searching, but I cant find anything that tells me the procedure of adjusting the backlash. I'm just going to eyeball it as best I can. Anything would be better than it is now.

Video of the play in the locker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc2E...ature=youtu.be

The washers i found on the back of the spider gears. Thrust washer?

AKHeathen

the way it works is that while the inner peices are together, it has enough clearance to allow one side to spin free and the other locked in. if the driving side is stopped, it forces the inner peices apart and both are locked in. it's operation is completely independant of the pinion/ring clearance. clearance there should be like .06-.12 (6-12 thousanths. you adjust it by turning the spool bearing nuts tward or away from the pinion and then put the locks back on. fyi, 12 thousandths is the minimum you can feel by hand. it takes a lot of experience, but i've set gears by feel. for instance, i would tighten it till i cannot feel the free-play, then tighten another notch in this case.... a dial indicator is most advised, though.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

yes that is the thrust washer, make sure you have one on both sides.

check out Master Zuk's site
http://gearinstalls.com/

He will have multiple write ups on doing lock rights.
I managed an aussie install myself, not too hard and it still works.

RJR

AKHeathen is right on in his analysis. I'll just add a bit more detail.

There has to be enough clearance so that one of side gears can unlock from the inner piece and provide differential action. Otherwise both axles would be permanently locked together and you'd basically have a spool. The instructions with the locker will tell you if you are supposed include the thrust washers. They will also give you a measurement range for the clearance between the inner pieces that needs to be met so that the locker works properly.

The way it's supposed to work is that there are pins and springs between the two inner pieces which push them out into engagement with the side gears, which then drive the axles. The cross pin, which is driven by the ring gear, provides additional outward thrust on the slowest side, forcing the slow side to stay in engagement even under heavy loads. If the other wheel wants to turn faster, it simply has to overcome the spring pressure so that the inner piece will slide inward and the teeth between it and side gear will click over each other, making the characteristic ratcheting sound of an automatic locker.

Edit: I just re-read you last post and this paragraph is probably not the problem. More likely it's missing washers.
My guess is that the pins and springs are either missing or improperly assembled, thus providing no outward pressure on the inner pieces. The springs are pretty stiff, and when properly in place should put enough pressure on the inner pieces that causing ratcheting action by hand with the wheels jacked up takes significant effort.

Just read the instructions carefully and review the ZUK article I referenced, and you should be able to get it together so it works properly.

The backlash is also definitely a problem and needs to be fixed or you'll quickly destroy the ring and pinion. The "shop" may have actually done you a favor by screwing up the locker; otherwise you wouldn't have noticed the backlash problem until the whole 3rd member was toast. A dial indicator can be had from Harbor Freight for $20-30, and is the best way to get it right.

Once you get it back together, it's a good idea to monitor the differential temperature after high speed driving for the first hundred miles or so to make sure everything is working OK. High temps (>200F) may indicate either a bearing pre-load problem or poor mesh of the gears. A cheap laser thermometer makes checking the diff temp easy.

(The local government did good by shutting that shop down.)

Phantez

RJR, good call on the harbor freight dial indicator. i always forget about that place. I called up my local HF and they have one in stock. I'm leaving to pick it up now.

Never thought of checking the diff temps. I have a laser thermometer from my nitro rc cars. I'll use that

Can someone give me a little more detail on adjusting the backlash? I understand I have to turn those end caps, but which way does what? If I move one side, I'm assuming I need to move the same way as well? I'm guessing everything is "pinched" between the two ends?

RJR

You've basically got it right. The end caps preload the bearing. Loosening one and tightening the other moves the ring gear one way, doing opposite moves it the other way. Moving the ring gear closer to the pinion reduces backlash.

Phantez

I'm assuming you meant .006 - .012.

I measured the backlash that was on there for fun to see what it was. It was .05. Far too loose.

I'm having trouble getting the retaining pin out for the cross shaft. I'm looking to see if someone from my local offroad club has a press they'd let me use for it. Anyone have a trick up their sleeve for getting it to move?

s.kenton

Not related to fixing your rig, but if you paid with a credit card you could dispute the transaction with your card issuer and you might get your money back!

RJR

I'm pretty sure it only comes out one direction. It's slightly tapered, I think, and normally the edge of the hole is dimpled with a punch after it's inserted to keep it from coming back out. You'll have to clean up that dimple and then it should drive out fairly easily from the back side with a brass punch or a wooden dowel. I had zero trouble getting mine out.

nuclearlemon

never done a mini truck, but on the land cruisers, the retaining pin is a bolt that spins out. does anyone have a pic of a mini diff pin? i am planning on someday throwing in a cheap locker, so i'd like to see what i'm in for. i've done multiple land cruisers and they're easy as pie. do minis have diff covers in back or do you have to pull the entire diff?

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

^you gotta pull the diffs, no covers like the old Cruiser axles.

between ZUKs website and the LockRite instructions, everything should be fairly well covered. I used these when I did mine and I thought it was a fairly straightforward install.

BTW, are you sure you got the correct LockRite??? There are two versions for our trucks, one for the 4cyl and one for the 6cyl diff. housing. Not sure exactly what the differences are, but there are two different part numbers. I used the 6cyl version on my factory 4.88 V6 diffs.

Phantez

Made good progress tonight, but ran into an issue

I got the retaining pin and cross pin out. I just bought a nice punch, found a way to get it to nicely sit on my vice and hammered it out. I got everything taken apart, installed the thrust washers, and reinstalled. Everything felt nice and tight. I checked the tolerances and it was within spec. Sweet!

Then I went to installed the cross shaft, and found that the inner spacers are just barely blocking the pin from going through. I took a picture of what i'm talking about as best I could. This is the 1610 lock right and I have an 87 pickup. Stock 8 inch rear end, 4 cyl. Should be right. Any ideas why this wont clear?

Phantez

EF

I just found this image and it looks like I installed my spacers upside down. The booklet said that the wider side of the spacer should be towards the "teeth" of the inside driver. This image shows the opposite. This is going to be fun taking those dang springs back out

http://www.marystonetrial.at/technik...lockright5.jpg

RJR

Can you just push the spacer back out of the way? As another alternative, the fact that only one of them is in the way suggests maybe there's a left and right spacer (different thicknesses) and you have them swapped. Just a thought.

At least you're learning a lot. Hang in there; you're getting close!

Phantez

The picture wasn't very good, but the spacers were both equally in the way. I took it apart last night, flipped the spacers around, and it fit together perfectly. There was a little ridge on the "output" side of the locker that the spacer needed to be seated in, and the wider part of the spacer was in the way of that, which pushed it out in the way of the cross pin. Powertrax needs to get their instruction book updated. It's a pain pulling those springs back out, and I was afraid one would go flying off somewhere and get lost. Thankfully, that didn't happen.

It got too late to finish it up last night. Hopefully i can get it done tonight. I need to get the ring gear seated on and put everything back together.

I've been harassing the shop guy about my money. I told him i'd settle for $100 back, and call the remaining $200 in labor help with that retaining pin since he spent a lot of time shaving out some of the built up metal and made it easier for me to remove the pin. it's better than nothing, which is all i'm getting back now.

Phantez

I was able to finish up the locker and made it to the 4 wheeling meet i was shooting for on Saturday, although something still isn't quite right. I only got to test drive it 1 mile before calling it good to go since i had a lot of other things to do. I finished the truck at 1:30am, and had to be leaving at 7am that morning.

I noticed on the drive there that it wasn't unlocking very often when rolling through tight corners or at the gas station. It unlocked maybe 10% of the time i would expect it to. Even if I was free rolling with the clutch in and taking a tight corner it wouldn't unlock. It worked great on the trail since it was pretty much a spool. When i got home, i jacked up the rear and did the tire spin test.

When i push the drivers side forward, the passenger side will ratchet backwards with almost no effort until i move the drivers side back again, it'll lock. I can't get it to unlock the passenger side spinning forward at all. On the drivers side, it's difficult to get it to unlock at all either way, and when it does it'll unlock for a single tooth and lock again. What could this problem be?

RJR

This is proper operation. Keep in mind that to unlock the passenger side spinning forward, you have to push the driver's side backward. It's not clear if that's how you've tested it.

My guess is that the clearances between the drive plates, or the clearance between the pinion shaft and one or both of the spacers, is not quite correct. When I installed the Aussie in my front diff, the instructions were quite explicit that the clearance between the drive plates when they were pushed against the springs had to be between .145" and .170". Aussie would not warranty the locker if that dimension was out of spec. I assume the LockRite has a similar requirement. (with, of course, likely different numbers.)

There was also a spec for the gap between the pinion shaft and each of the internal spacers (.006" to .020" for the Aussie). Again, the instructions were adamant that that be within spec.

If either of those is out of spec, you may need slightly different thickness thrust washers.

You might call LockRite and ask them.