stupid_mud_gremlins

ok...almost ready to give up and buy a different vehicle here... Just dumped a new 3.0 into my 4runner and it won't start. I've narrowed it down to no spark(from the coil), but I can't seem to do anything to fix it.

My big question is should it matter on an 89 if I've swapped it to a 5 spd? I've got the park/neutral safty rigged so the starter spins, but that's all I've done. Will the neutral/4wd/reverse switches that aren't hooked up be causing it not to start?

Other than that, so far I've replaced cap and rotor, coil, igniter, plug wires check ok, distributer tests ok, and even the MAF sensor today because it was reading a temp of 40 C when it was only 20 C out today. The engine is getting fuel, and compression is good. I should also say that I intermittently get spark the instant I start cranking the motor, or just after I let the key go. To make the whole thing more complicated the motor that I seized (old one) would still start when I pulled the motor out(broke it loose again with a wrecking bar on the crank bolt and 2 buddies). I actually towed the donor vehicle about 10 miles to my shop with the busted motor. Go Toyota!!! This would seem to tell me that the problem is something in the new motor.

For information that I could use:
Can someone check what voltages they get at the igniter on each wire? How about how the coil fires? What does the igniter do to cause the spark to be sent? How about an internal diagram for the igniter...that would be a god-send!

Is there another sensor that the computer would use to decide when to spark? How about locations of all sensors on the 3vze and which of these would cause no/intermittent spark if it failed?

Does anyone have an ignition wiring diagram for an 89 3vze they could send me? Particularly what wires connect to IGT and IGF lines on the computer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the dumb thing should spark/start if there's no coolant, right?

abecedarian

You don't have the coil installed backwards do you? All the connections to the igniter and distributor are clean and secure?

stupid_mud_gremlins

Brown wire to the positive terminal on the coil. All connections on the dist and igniter are solid and clean...

TNRabbit

There's a 93 FSM link here on the forum, should be very similar to yours.

MrPeepers

Whats weird is you say that it gets spark, right when you crank it and when you let it go. Sounds like something is hooked up to the wrong ignition wire. The true ignition wire will have power even when cranking, some secondary ignition wires and accessory wires will have power in on position but lose power during crank.

stupid_mud_gremlins

So after a bit of digging I found these posts:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/n...89-95-a-10543/

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post51126569


If I test by the method in the first site/post, the igniter is not getting a signal from the computer to spark (tap test to 12V power rather than ground...can someone confirm that this is correct?) Now I'm only getting 0.2 volts at the computer connector for this line (by running a continuity test to find the right wire) which is the same at the igniter end. I'm guessing the computer isn't getting the right signals it needs then. What else could there be? Any switches/sensors in the motor or tranny that could be preventing spark? Possibly shorted wires in the harness? Does anyone have a pinout for the 89 3vze computers they could share?

stupid_mud_gremlins

ok, well, I've gone from no spark to intermittent spark, and I don't think my injectors are firing at this point. starting fluid will make it kick, but only for a few seconds while cranking the starter and then nothing again. It just so happens I get spark at the same time. So the questions I have at this point are:

1) Other than the signal from the igniter, what makes the injectors fire?

2) What could be missing that makes the igniter spark?

3) Could it be possible that the computer isn't signaling the igniter to spark because the distributor is off by 180 degrees and it's adjusting it so far out that the spark doesn't catch the posts in the distributor?

I'm really grasping at straws here. Can anyone help?

Ron Helmuth

you seem to me to already have the answer at hand

Your 2nd paragraph --should it matter if I have changed to a 5 speed?

yes I believe most assuredly that is affecting your starting issue.

I am no mechanic so take the free advice offered for all it is worth-

but certainly the neutral/4wd/reverse switches not being connected or jumpered (do not go sticking paper clips anywhere please please please) is affecting the signal the igniter or the starter or solenoid gets/needs to allow the process to continue.



You have the wiring diagram yes? You have to follow every potential wire on the starting circuit. Emphasis on every. You will see that some wires connect up to entire sub assemblies. Hook up those wires correctly and see if you have good results. It is a daunting task. If you are tired, walk away from it. Perhaps it will help you to write down a wire color, and name the connection points that wire goes to.. or not...

Talk it out with us-are you absolutely sure you have every little relay and solenoid and 'secret black boxes" for a 5 speed conversion?

Compare a wiring harness with a "copy of your vehicle" if at all possible.

I feel your pain we are trying to get running the $200 subie from hell I dragged home for my 16yr old. All it needs is fuel pump bypass wiring.

You have some real changes that have taken place and you need to "plug" all the loose ends.

Ron Helmuth

you have a used igniter? I see a thread over in Yotatech Marketplace.

stupid_mud_gremlins

2 igniters, both test good by the above posts that I found. I'm finding that adding starting fluid will let it "almost start" until the fluid runs out. I'm starting to think that I bought a s*** motor to fix a seized one...lol

from what I've read doing searches here on the forums, all I should have to do to get it to start after swapping in a 5 speed is short the neutral safety switch in the connector for the transmission to make it look like it's always in neutral. Eventually this will get wired to a clutch switch. Other than that though, it seems people have had them start just fine. Anyone that's done a 5 speed swap on a 3vze that can elaborate, please let us know. Is there a 5 speed swap write-up for the 3vze that I should be looking at?

stupid_mud_gremlins

well, I seem to be getting spark consistently now...set the timing according to the FSM. It was a bit off, I guess it just needed a bit of a tweak. Seems now I'm not getting fuel...I'll keep everyone posted. I know there is gas getting to the fuel rail, so I'm going to recheck that and start at the injector harness...

MrPeepers

Get a pressure guage and test for fuel pressure at the rail(assuming you hear the fuel pump running), then get a noid light to test the signal to the injectors. For what its worth I had a similar experience before where I saw spark and figured it must be fuel related. Turns out it was the spark wasn't strong enough, I bought one of those $5 little glass tubes witha screw and ground clip that measures spark, and it wasnt to spec even though the meter tests on the coil were in spec. replaced the coil and it fired right up.

Ron Helmuth

so it has basically changed from an electrical issue to fuel delivery to the cylinders?

You're getting there
good work

stupid_mud_gremlins

hmm... a bit to respond to here...

mrpeepers: Oly thing that I haven't done is the noid light,but the VM does deflect for the injector pulse, so it's getting there...just the injectors aren't for some reason putting fuel out. I'm guessing at this point that the motor sat for a while before I bought the truck it came out of.

Ron: I'm glad I'm finally getting something, I've been almost 3 months without a vehicle! I'm gonna pull injectors from the old motor at my shop on Friday afternoon and I'm planning on grabbing most of the top half of the motor eventually...

Ron Helmuth

if you were closer we'd all drive over there and stand around and make useless suggestions

so at least this way you get some free advice and do not have to buy us any beers....

c'mon let's get that puppy going this weekend!