fiddleplayer247

hey yall, i finally got the new thread button to work on my Control Panel(thanks Corey and Molly!!!). so heres my problem. i have a 1995 3vze sr5 pickup with the 5 speed. my problem is that the truck will not start after the truck being shut off for 24 hours, or after sitting overnight for that matter. it will turn over, start and run for about 3 seconds, then die, and i have to use starting fluid(non ether type) to get the truck up and running. then the truck is ready to go all day as long as the engine temp is between the normal and cold slots on the thermostat when i try to start the truck back up.
here is why i say that. if i drive the truck for about thirty minutes(time it take me to commute home from college) and park the truck, if i get back in and try to start the truck 15 minutes to an hour of cutting the truck off, it will suffer from the same symptoms as the cold start problems(run for 3 seconds and die), and i have to use the same starting fluid to get to my destination.

BUT if i try to start the truck within ten minutes of cutting the engine off, or an hour and half after cutting the truck off, the dang thing will fire right up!

i am bumfuzzled as to what the problem might be. i just replaced the thermintine*(sp) sensor, the cylinder head temp sensor, the oxygen sensor, and all the spark plugs and the distributor cap, and NONE of this has helped. i do know that my knock sensor is out, but i have had that go out before on my other truck('93 model w/same engine) and never had this problem. i hope someone has had this problem before or knows what my problem is.
PLEASE HELP ME!!!!! IVE ALREADY SUNK $400 IN THIS DANG THING TO TRY AND FIGURE IT OUT!!!!

Junkers88

Sounds like the fuel rail is losing pressure. Had this happen on a 22re (so this may or may not help you) and what had happened was one of the O rings on one of my injectors had torn and the fuel rail would lose pressure making starts after sitting for a lone time (several hours) a real pain in the rear.

mmcpeck

Damn Junkers.....you may have just solved my issue too!!

fiddleplayer, I have a similar issue.

Mine start perfect ice cold and when hot too, but after it sits any longer than 15 minutes (anywhere from 15 minutes to 4 hours) and it starts like crap.

I might have to check my injectors out too.

fiddleplayer247

thats what the mechanic told me to do(same guy that previously replaced the thermotine sensor and cly head temp sensor) it sounded right, i just wanted to get a second opinion on this thing. btw, would that cause the fuel to boil in the fuelrails? i took it to a mechanic before this one and he tried to check the fuel pressure, and when he tried to pull a bung on the fuel rail and the fuel steamed out of the lines.(he said the fuel pump might be going bad) sound right or does it sound like another problem? thanks for the replies and help yall!

Junkers88

The fuel rail is pressurized (or should be) and liquids under pressure can get a lot hotter than those that are not. I don't know if the fuel should steam or not but I would imagine that it'd get pretty warm in there. Maybe someone else can answer this one for sure.

fiddleplayer247

thanks for the help junkers. as i said earlier, the mechanic that changed the 2 temp sensors listed checking the injectors next on the list, but after sinking $400 in the first 4 attempts at repairs, i couldnt afford to get it done anytime soon. Plus the knock sensor is out, but he and i have come to know each other pretty well, so maybe he can finance my repairs, since i am a poor college student LMAO. i would like to know though if the starting fluid being used to start the truck will damage anything, or get the engine "hooked" on the spray like a diesel will do?

Junkers88

I don't know if using starter fluid on a gas engine will get it hooked like a diesel does on ether. Most of the time the diesel gets hooked because the owner won't fix all the problems associated with the addiction. With regards to a diesel most folks will change out the glow plugs since they are sort of cheaper and still use ether to start it since the injectors have been ruined by the starting fluid, then the glows go again, and you're back to square -1.... I ran 6.9 Fords for a long time.... don't get me started.


What we need to find out is exactly why your engine is hard to start.

When you say it won't fire at all with out starting fluid how long to you crank it before you give up and spray it? Even with shot O rings in the injectors you should be able to crank it for a while and build up pressure. It may take 30-60 seconds of 3-5 second cranks though. If you can get it to fire with several 3-5 second cranks then the lack of pressure in the fuel rail (aka- blown O rings on the injectors) is the cause.

Man I hope this helps you a little. I went through almost 600$ of repairs (also at a shop and at home) to recover from a terrible idle only to find out it was a busted intake gasket. 3 dollars and 15 freaking cents worth of gasket cost me almost my entire slush fund for the rig.

fiddleplayer247

yea that sounds about right. and injectors wouldnt be that hard for me to pull and check, even with me being a mid-level mechanic(do changing oil and tinkering count?)
BUT since i have the 3.0, its easier to let someone else do it. i just hate the idea of having him pull all the top end off to check injectors, then have to get him to pull again to fix the knock sensor. id like to knock it all out with one whack, but lack of a job hinders me from even getting him to check it out.
going back to the starting without fluid..... yes, it will start without, but it ticks me off to sit there for 5 minutes tryin to get the blessed thing going. it usually only takes about a 2 second spray on the filter to get it goin in the mornin(i dunno if thats a lot or a little) and if the engine is hot it generally takes a little more than that. usually if im out of fluid or want to save it i can sit and turn the ingition on and off a few(6 to 10) times, and itll spit around enough to get going. it alsmost acts like a weed eater when you try to floor it with the choke still on if that makes any sense at all when i start it after having to use EITHER method of starting. junkers thanks for all the help on this really

mmcpeck

Would bad injector O-rings give off any gas smell at all?

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

you think about checking the afm?

fiddleplayer247

vital, yes i did. that was one of the first things i did to try to fix things. since i still have the little brother's '93 at the house i swapped the 2 afms out, to no avail. my truck still has the problem, and his still has no problem.
cpeck, if this problem creates a bad gas smell in the exhaust, i wouldnt be able to tell the difference between this problem and the knock sensor by smelling the exhaust. since my knock sensor is bad too, its pouring fuel in and retarding the timing.

mmcpeck

Fiddle.....no I meant would the bad injector O-rings leak fuel and cause a fuel smell in the engine compartment? Would they leak fuel or just leak pressure but not actual fuel?

I hope you get this fixed man, I know first hand that a hard starting engine is a pain in the A$$.

fiddleplayer247

haha thanks cpeck... i'm not sure if it would or not... im kicking my own @$$ for buying this truck.... i love it because of the same truck and more room as my other one, but at $3200 i think i got shafted on this one... with the oil leaking out from under the headgasket(all external, im not burning it YET) honestly, i havent smelled any fuel under my hood. much less oil. so im not sure if i would smell oil or not..

fiddleplayer247

hey yall, figured id give you a small update on what ive done lately.

on valentines day there was about three inches of snow left on the ground from a pretty significant snow here in WNC. my girlfriend and i went on an "affordable" date(flowers, scrap book page, then took her on top of a mountain above her house in the truck for a picnic inside the truck(sandwhiches nonetheless) and to watch the sunset) lol!

so the date went well, and we got back to her driveway. since she lives on a mountain, there was some ice under the snow(road is paved ) and about 2 inches of packed powder on this in one of the curves. we were crusing along up the hill, and hit this slick curve.

i hit the throttle, because there was a ditch to the right and a huge dropoff on the left, and i didnt wanna wind up in either, because of A)embarrassment and B) i wanted time to chill with her before curfew.(yes, i am 20, and have a curfew)

so with the wheel turned right(right hand turn) and about 3/4 throttle, it was a matter of seconds before i heard a loud POP! she goes, "what was that?!?!??" i then calmly stated "about two hundred bucks going out my window and into your driveway. i bout the truck knowing the CVs would need replacing, but i didnt realize that it would be this soon. my dad had to tow the truck about ten miles back to our house while i was at school(30 mins away), and 170 bucks later i had a sway bar connector and a CV shaft on the drivers side replaced.


fast forward to this past friday(3-19-010) and my truck leaves me stranded(yet again) in the middle of a two lane road. lucky i was about 100 yards from my dads work, and we towed the dang thing back to the house. scoming up a hill on the road the engine started bogging out and left me sitting ten feet from a road to pull into to get it out of the 2 lane. the truck was acting like it does when the engine is trying to start while the motor is warm(see above posts).

that saturday, we decided to pull the bed off and replace the fuel pump. we were going to unload it off the trailer, but since the bed bolts were coming off we decided to leave it on the trailer to make it easier to reach the underbody bed bolts. a can of WD40 and 20 mins later, the bolts were off. we propped the bed back(think dumptruck) !!!!!!!!!!!!!NOT SAFE!!!!!!!! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!!!!!!! with some poles, and began pulling the lid off the pump. got it replaced, and it wouldnt start.

dad said "you sure you didnt run outta gas?" NOPE my fuel light wasnt on, but the indicatior was below a 1/4 tank. so we put in two gallons and after about treee mor tries(and killing the battery) the truck fired up.


we unloaded the truck and it ran stronger than it did since the check engine light first came on(knock sensor=see above also)

i am finally able to start the truck without starting fluid, but it is still not on the first try. when i take it to the shop to replace the knock sensor i will have the mechanic check the fuel injectors to see if any are leaking down, or clogged. in the time before that though, i will be removing the cold start valve to soak it in throttle body cleaner, to see if it is clogged as well.

thanks everyone for the help, stay tuned to see what my conglomeration of problems amount to!

fiddleplayer247

btw, the gray spot on the bed is some bondo that i found popped after a hot day and a cold night...... @#@$#%$%^&&