Zelephant

I was in an accident in my truck today. I'm fine and I was able to drive the truck home no problem, but I feel really wrung out, so if this post sounds miserable, that's about how I feel right now.

I was at fault. A guy in a corrolla ahead of me was stopped waiting to turn left, and I glanced down at the stereo or something, and when I looked up again I was on top of him. He's probably fine, but he got checked at the hospital to make sure. I'm normally a safe driver, I don't use the phone in the car (ever), I'm always within 5-10 mph of the speed limit, etc., so I'm kinda sitting here in stunned disbelief, like this isn't supposed to happen to me. But now about my question:

Here's what the truck looks like:

One of the observers noted how well the truck took the hit. I have no doubt I can fix the body damage, that's minimal. But check out the front tire:

On top of that, at the neutral position, the steering wheel is upside down. My first thought is it just needs an alignment, but the steering wheel has me concerned. Is there something more serious wrong it? I checked the steering box-fine. Idler arm looks straight, but it could be a little off- I'm too mentally wasted to tell. Definitely doesn't look bad enough to throw the steering off 180 degrees. Where should I start to fix this thing, or is it just as simple as an alignment? Thoughts?

I can't help but wonder if the truck would have survived almost unscathed if I had any sort of off-road bumper on it.

BTW, if you have to add how stupid an accident it is to ram a stationary Corrolla, I definitely deserve it. But whatever you say will be dwarfed by the dressing down I'm giving myself right now.

iamsuperbleeder

glad to hear you're okay

you need to pull that tire off and assess the damage before you make any assumptions to what might be damaged

take a close look at the ball joints, control arm bushings, everything, to see what's been broken or bent. it might help to jack the entire front of the truck off the ground and take both tires off so you can compare the sides to each other

chances are you destroyed you rupper ball joint and it's letting the top push in, but if that happened it kinda surprises me that you were able to drive it home

the steering wheel could be off due to the camber, or the impact may have made the pitman arm jump a tooth if that's possible?

peow130

Definitely start by taking the front wheels off.
I know after my accident, i tweaked one of the frame rails and it in turn tweaked my idler arm, so now i have play in the wheel.

MudHippy

Hate to be a pessimist, but if I were to give you a "worst case" scenario, I'd also have to say that it's very likely that you've bent/twisted the frame. Having done so myself, I can attest to it being alot less difficult to do so than one might imagine. Much less so that breaking a ball joint or damaging the pitman arm anyway. I still haven't managed those(working on it), yet I have managed to bend and eventually snap the idler arm, bend the center link, break the steering gearbox upper frame mount off, severely bend and twist and crack the passenger side frame rail and crack the front torsion bar mounting bracket on the passenger side(all during the same incident on that one).

O.k. then, here's the "best case" scenario: All you need is an alignment. The steering wheel will be straightened in the process. What's happened is one, or more, of the camber/caster adjustment bolts has been forced out of the proper position. Just get 'er aligned, and down the road you go.

We'll see how it pans out. And I hope, for your sake, that I'm wrong about the frame damage. What a nightmare that was to fix.

Bojangles

Dang bo, glad your ok...
But it could have been worse.
How about go check the leaf spring brackett on both the back right of the rear axle and the back left.
I hope you didn't pop it loose from the frame.
I did that with my yota when i snatched someone out of the mud late one night, and it was riding down the road crooked.
I thought it was out of alignment but i actually broke a leaf spring brakett loose.
Let me know what you find out.

http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t.jpg&newest=1

Here's a link that will show you what im talking about.

Zelephant

Thanks for the replies, guys. I appreciate it. It's too late in the day to start pulling the wheels off, But I did go out and take another look, and I'll upload a bunch of pics later. On quick inspection, everything looks just about fine. Hard to tell if the pitman arm jumped teeth, but it's on there good and tight. Same goes for idler arm and center link, all look OK on initial inspection. Steering box mounts don't look stressed at all. Ball joints certainly don't look crushed, the outer rubber boots are fine. What I did find, however, is that the rear adjustment clock for the LCA is off by about 30-degrees. I was considering dropping it once upon a time to change a CV, but didn't end up doing it. However, the adjustment marks I made are still there, and they don't line up anymore.

Bojangles, I might be overplaying the accident if you think I could knock a rear leaf hanger out in a front end collision! Rear leaf hanger is fine, lol! I doubt the collions was more than 10 mph.

Mudhippy, I think I checked most or the items you mentioned you broke in your accident that tweaked the frame, and all look OK. Is there any surefire way to check for a bent frame? Even if it is bent, though, there's not much I can do about it. Just rebuild as best I can and drive on it.
IIRC you're the guy that rolled his truck off a cliff and tree saved it from total oblivion, right?

Thanks for everyones help, I'll be keeping you updated on how it goes.

Bojangles

Haha well, my reason behind saying that was unfortunatly my frame was rusted through in that one spot and it didn't take much of anything to break it loose.
My back tires dug in one good time and it snapped.
But i figured it was worth a shot
Hope you figure it out.

richf

Hey dude stuff happens. I bet the damage isn't all that bad. I have a front left fender if you end up needing one.

morena67

I'm very sorry ...
I'm sending you this Ilustration...might help...
Good luck..!

morena67

sorry , here it is...

swampfox

When I replaced the center link on my 2 wd it caused the steering wheel to be off quiet a bit. The link could be tweaked slightly ,but it would not explain the wheel leaning at the top.

CamTom12

Hey man, I had something similar happen to me a couple of years ago. In the left lane of a 4-lane road doing the speed limit, I looked over at a building I was passing while the car in front of me decided they almost missed their turn. They slammed on brakes with no blinker and I looked up just in time to see their car pitch forward!

So I slammed on brakes, looked to get around them but the right lane was packed, decided to try the opposing lanes to avoid impact (they were clear) and would've made it if I hadn't locked my tires up on the centerline paint!!

Impact around 10mph. My steering wheel was cockeyed (I hit their car with my tire). I took it to get an alignment and the guy said it was in perfect alignment, just crooked. Like my subframe had shifted or something.

I still have no idea what actually happened under there but will figure it out in the next couple of years.

Fwiw, if your ball joints are on their way out, an impact will have a much better chance to pop them.

MudHippy

Yeah, that was me. Split the frame in two on that one. That was actually the second time I'd messed the frame up. And I didn't even get to enjoy the ride on that one(I wasn't in the truck when it happened, I was in front of it working the come-along when the chain popped out of the hook). The first time(damage described in the previous post)happened when I went sliding nose first down a super steep, super slick, muddy trail and straight into a big 'ol tree root that was sticking out along side it. It caught the passenger side tire and pushed it, and everything connected to it, in by a good inch or two(depended where measured, more at the top than the bottom because of the twist it put in it). It was pretty obviously tweaked though. I crawled under it and could see where it was bowed-in between the control arms there, and all attempts to get the camber right on that side through regular adjustment procedures failed. I tried several things to correct it, the first couple of which were complete flops. No go with trying to push it back out with a Hi-Lift or a bottle jack shoved in-between the rearward LCA brackets. So then I tried using my 10,000lb. come-along like this to fix it, throwing my back out in the process. Hence the nightmare statement.

It did work to get it straight enough to align the wheels, but I didn't get around to fixing any of the cracks at the time though. Which I actually never even found 'till after the second incident.

Then, so that wouldn't happen again, I pestered the hell out of Steve at Sonoran Steel to sell me one of his Early IFS Trusses. He finally gave in and sold me one.


But, that did nothing to prevent the damage on this one.


I spent 4 1/2 months fixing that mess. Just the frame. Lot's of cutting, lot's of hammering, lot's of bending, lot's of welding pieces back together. I still haven't got it totally together yet. Still need to weld my rear bumper back on, and build a bumper and mount for the front to put the 10,000lb. winch, that I bought to get it off the hill there, on. Then put the rest of the truck back on it. Which is nowhere near ready either. Lot's of body work to go still.

If you don't have a frame truss like mine, then one way to get a rough idea if it's still pretty straight is to measure between those LCA brackets where the truss would go. It should be 17" +/- 1/4" or so. Mine measured ~16 1/8" IIRC, after the first incident. Got it pulled back out to right about 17" before I threw the truss in there.

Zelephant

Thanks a million for everyones replies and suggestions.

richf-If you're willing to send me the front fender for the cost of shipping, I'd be all in. Otherwise, it'd probably be more cost effective to buy the part locally. Thanks either way.

morena67-thanks for the diagram. I'll probably be needing that.

Swampfox- centerlink didn't look bad, but tomorrow I'm going out with a tape measure to check a lot of angles under there, and I'll see if the center link is warped. That could be the issue with the steering wheel, and somthing else is throwing off my camber.

Camtom12- So have you been driving on it with a bent subframe in the years since the accident? I'm interested to know what you did to get your truck straight again, since you said it happened a couple years ago. Also, I just replaced the lower BJ, haven't touched the top, but it doesn't make noise or anything.

Mudhippy- Probably better you didn't take the ride in your wreck, you could have been killed! I'm glad you're still building it back, most guys would've thrown in the towel after a wreck like that. I like your bent frame solution using the come-along, got any more info on that? Like what points on the frame you connected the straps to, how much you turned the wheel and why, etc? Hopefully it won't come to that with my rig, but if so, I want to be prepared. I'll measure the LCA distances tomorrow, and I think I need one of those IFS trusses, lol. Either that, or use this incident as an excuse to start gathering parts for an SAS! In the meantime, here are the pics I snapped yesterday of some of the steering components. BTW, if anyone suspects anything from these pics and wants me to get a pic of something specific, please let me know!

As I said, BJ looks good:

I assume this bend is factory, since the other side has one similar

Pitman arm and steering box. Pitman could be slightly bent, but so small it's hard to tell:

Idler arm looks fine to me:

This is what I said about the adjustment clocks. I marked them a long time ago and didn't end up dropping them, but now they don't line up. What does that mean?

MudHippy

Pretty much the only specifics I can give are the ones you're asking about. The strap on the driver's side was looped around the frame rail just to the rear of the UCA and connected to itself with a shackle I put in the loop at it's end. I made sure it wasn't going to pinch on the torsion bar under load by feeding the end of the strap under it and then around the frame rail before putting the shackle on to form the loop there. Then I turned the steering wheel all the way to the left so I could get the clearance needed to get a straight pull on the other frame rail with the chain without it pushing forward on the passenger side tire. Attaching the chain to that frame rail was a little more tricky because there's also some brake lines that run along top of it where I wanted to put it. I fed the hook on the end of the chain under those and under the torsion bar so it wouldn't pinch them when I pulled, and then used the hook to form a loop in the chain around the frame rail. Again I put the loop as close as I could get it to the UCA. I didn't worry too much about the fuel lines running along the inside of the frame rail there, because I figured the chain would be applying the most tension at the top and bottom corners of the frame rail. That proved to be the case, and those lines were unharmed in the process. After rigging it all up and attaching the come-along, I just pulled and pulled and pulled some more. I pulled on it 'till I thought I couldn't possibly pull it any tighter.

Then I took a breather. After which, to verify I'd given it everything I had, I tried one last tug. I got another click or two more tension on the chain, then felt/heard three rather loud pops coming from my lower back. No questions asked that was definitely as hard as I was going to be tugging on anything that day. And I regretted having taken it to that extreme for a couple good reasons. First because my back was aching something fierce at that point. Second, and if you've ever used a come-along you should already know this, it wasn't going to be easy to release the tension on the line. You see the harder you pull on those things, the harder you have to pull to get the release mechanism to activate. I knew this, but thought I still had it under control, and could figure out a way to do so.

And I eventually did. It took some carefully coordinated pushing, instead of pulling, on the handle. Or I would've had to cut the strap, and being the penny-pincher that I am, that wasn't gonna happen unless there was absolutely no other alternative.
I know what that means.
I can tell by just looking at it that you have quite a bit of camber/caster adjustment left there. And, by my estimate, more than enough to correct your camber angle too. Which is great! That may be all you need to do to correct that. How about the one in the front on that side? Is it off the mark too? If so, I would put them both back to where they were to begin with for starts. Then see how everything sits. See if that has any effect on the steering wheel too. If it does, and it appears to be straight again, then you're done. Even if it doesn't help enough to get the steering wheel perfectly straight or the camber angle near correct, you will still be able to adjust the camber by moving them past the marks. Clockwise for the rear seen from the rear, counter-clockwise for the front seen from the front. Or if that's too confusing, just make sure that the LCA is being pulled inward untill the proper camber angle is achieved. And then see if you need to re-adjust the toe setting, which will likely be necessary if you've had to adjust the camber adjustment bolts more than their previous settings. Caster angle is of no real concern on these rigs, it's not going to make much difference where it's set. I've adjusted mine from one extreme to the next and it made no noticeable difference in the way the truck handled. Just focus on the camber and toe settings, where the caster is when you're through is inconsequential.

Now this next little piece of advice is something that strangely seems to be a topic of contraversy around here, though I still don't see why because it's following the FSM instructions to a T. Anyhow here goes, you don't really need to pay any attention to the position of the steering wheel while you're doing a wheel alignment(specifically while making the toe adjustment). You can use the steering wheel to help keep the wheels pointed straight forwards during the process, but where it ends up after adjusting the toe setting means nothing. If it isn't straight up and down when you're through, then make it so by removing it and replacing it as close to centered(straight up and down)as you can get it. It's not always possible to get it to sit perfectly dead center. But that's EXACTLY what the book say to do, and that's ALL you can do about it.

The one thing I would advise against, however, would be to remove the steering wheel and straighten it without having made sure that the toe setting is within specs.

PS, I love your avatar man. I'm the hugest stooges fan. And Curly is by far my favorite slap-stick comedian of all times. Shemp never could hold a candle to him. Niether could the other guy they tried replacing him with. So much less funny than Shemp even was he that I can't even remember what they called that guy. Was it cousin Joe? Something like that I think...I'll google it.

Zelephant

Thanks for taking the time to type all that up, I appreciate that. As I'll explain in a minute, it doesn't look like I'm gonna have to get that drastic, but adding tools to my proverbial toolbox is one of the main reasons I browse this site. It's great to know how to do that if it ever comes to that.

I checked the distance between the LCA mounts; bang on at 16 7/8". I also checked the center link against a tape measure, and if it's off at all, it's so small I can't see it, even when held against a straight edge. It looks like it might as simple as an alignment after all. I don't want to get my hopes too high, but I honestly think the Lord watched out for me on this one, considering everything I could have messed up in a collision like that and didn't. After all, I was going to a church function when it happened!

The front clock doesn't seem to have moved, just the back. If my logic is correct, that would change the geometry in such a way to mess with steering, right? Either way, I don't know whether I have time to adjust it myself, or just take it to a shop. It stinks that in the midst of this mess I'm still a full-time student with a scholarship to keep, and have to keep studying like nothing happened.
I really appreciate all your help. I doubt you live anywhere near CT (nobody drives yotas up here, they've all rusted out), but if you did, I'd love to return the favor and give you a hand getting your truck back together!
I do have one more question that's been bugging me. Do you think an ARB bumper or even a good tube bumper would've helped any in this situation? The next big thing I was planning to do to this truck was regear, but now I'm thinking it might be smarter to get some armor to "protect me from mayhem" (as the nationwide commercials say).

Oh yeah, thanks for the compliment on Curly! Totally agree that Shemp wasn't nearly as good. He was funny in his own way, but nothing will every compare to Curly! IMHO he was the funniest man in history. Nyuck nyuck nyuck!

MudHippy

Oh, it's no problem at all. I've been waiting to tell that tale for quite some time. Just needed someone willing to listen to it. Or ask atleast about it, it doesn't take much to get me started on some long-winded yarn about this or that. So thank you for it, asking that is. I got lot's o' "stories", and way too much time on my hands at the moment. Trust me, I'd rather be wheeling if you catch my drift.

Nope I's nowhere's near CT. Gotta head about 3000 miles due east to get there from Oregon.

On the bumper thought, I can't tell ya for sure. I'm guessing it might have. Even a little something can do more than you might guess it could. I surely under-estimated the strength of one such "protective" devise I had installed on my rig. I'd say the bolted together, not a weld on it, "lightbar" did a fairly decent job of protecting like a rollbar in my case. Wouldn't have expected much more from a truly structural, welded together, welded to the frame, no short-cuts racing type rollbar of a similar type design.

It only rolled once, but still, that only broke the windshield and crushed the front of the roof in a few inches, all the other glass was/is fine. Not too shabby, might've even kept my head on straight(had it been there to begin with!).

morena67

Here's a better one I guess...



http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...agram-Copy.jpg

CamTom12

I'm not sure, actually! It may or may not be bent, all I did was take it to an alignment shop and then to a body shop to fix the fender.

I don't think the frame's bent. If it is it was minor enough to be taken care of with an alignment. The alignment's out again now but I'm pretty sure I've got a BJ and some other connecting pieces going out on the right (same side as my accident) side. Been having some popping lately.

I wonder if I bent my pittman arm or skipped it a tooth or something. Whatever I did it was still in alignment, the steering wheel was just off after the accident. I hit right on the tire, though.

If I ever find out I'll make a point to post it up in here though!

Zelephant

I have a bit of an update, but something else also came up that could be serious and I need input. After a week off the road, I got the truck aligned. Steering wheel was still off, so I pulled it and readjusted. Fender is still dented, I haven't found a replacement locally yet. However, after driving it a bit today, I noticed that at stoplights something would start knocking intermittently. I noticed this same knock the first time I started it after the accident, but it went away and I chaulked it up to the hood knocking against the dented fender. That is definitely not the case. The thing about this knock is it ONLY occures in drive with the brake on. In reverse, park, or just cruising, the engine sounds normal. However, it certainly didn't make this sound before the accident, and although it's crazy, I can't help but fear that somehow the accident blew the motor. Makes no sense, but the universe seems to be furious at me, and nothing would surprise me. Any ideas what the knock could be, and what can I do to diagnose it?