Going on for 4 months and still havnt figured it out. any ideas
01-17-2009, 06:03 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what could be the problem?4runner needs help, got any ideas?
ok so Im going to break it down so I can include every detail.
The Problem:
First the engine will not rev under load past 2200 rpm.
It idles(in park) at about 1500 rpm, when I put it in drive it goes down to 1k rpm.
when the engine is cold and I put it in park I cant get it past 1500 rpm. If i try pushing the gas past that or all the way to the ground the needle on the tack starts jumping anywhere from under 1k to as high as 2000 rpm. at the same time a kind of popping or backfiring can be heard coming from the engine compartment.
When the engine warms up I can get it up to the 2200 rpm under load but only when I find a "sweet spot" in the throttle, that is if i push on the gas lightly and to a certain point. if I have it in park and find this "sweet spot" I can get it up to 5k rpm If I push the gas passed this "sweet spot" the rpms go down and I start to lose speed. needless to say I cant drive very fast and I am getting horrible gas millage 10 mpg or less.
What have I done:
The first thing i did trying to solve this was take it to me regular mechanic.
The tested the fuel pressure, that was fine. the dropped the entire exuast to make sure the cat wasn't clogged, that didn't change anything. they timed it found that was off and adjusted it and that seemed to help for a few days. they also took the truck to a tranny place and they decided it wasnt the tranny. they really couldnt figure it out.
Then just a few weeks ago I took it to the dealer figuring they might have a better handle on it cause the only work with toyotas. they said the injectors were ohming out of spec and that the MAFM/VAFM was not working and that I needed a new exhaust rounding out there repairs at $5200. I didn't take them up on that offer. since then I replaced the MAFM with another used Toyota one i got for $45 and with the help of my parental units got a set of re manufactured injectors and I paid the $300 to have them put in. guess what? nothing has changed in how the car drives.
Today braving 15 degree temps. I ran a self diagnostic using a paper clip. seemed to work ok. turned the key to ON and the OD OFF light started to flash. it flashed 6 times then paused then 2 more times and it just kept doing that. so I go to my repair manual(chilton) and try to look up what code that could be and I coundnt see anything that matched.
It may seem odd that the OD off light was flashing but the check engine light stayed on. i used the paper clip as a jumper wire between terminals te1 and e1. What does that mean?
I also tried to get some reading of the TPS. I wasnt able to get a feeler gauge to fit between the lever and screw since the throttle body is still attached to the engine but test the OHM between the VTA-e2 termonats both WOT and closed throttle I got normal reading and the same went with Vcc-e2.
tomorrow ill try this: "One final test, not listed in the FSM, would be to run the TPS shaft from idle to WOT and watch the VTA-E2 resistance and make sure it increases monotonically, no drop outs or dead spots. If you observe abrupt resistance changes, the TPS could have a burned area on one of the current tracks"
any other ideas?
you can email me also at julian.e.santana@gmail.com and if your a Twin cities resident and well equipped for this kinda stuff and willing to give me a hand let me know. so far I have been working with my dad back in AZ over the phone. he is a mechanical engineer but its limited what he can help with since he cant get his hands on the truck.
The Problem:
First the engine will not rev under load past 2200 rpm.
It idles(in park) at about 1500 rpm, when I put it in drive it goes down to 1k rpm.
when the engine is cold and I put it in park I cant get it past 1500 rpm. If i try pushing the gas past that or all the way to the ground the needle on the tack starts jumping anywhere from under 1k to as high as 2000 rpm. at the same time a kind of popping or backfiring can be heard coming from the engine compartment.
When the engine warms up I can get it up to the 2200 rpm under load but only when I find a "sweet spot" in the throttle, that is if i push on the gas lightly and to a certain point. if I have it in park and find this "sweet spot" I can get it up to 5k rpm If I push the gas passed this "sweet spot" the rpms go down and I start to lose speed. needless to say I cant drive very fast and I am getting horrible gas millage 10 mpg or less.
What have I done:
The first thing i did trying to solve this was take it to me regular mechanic.
The tested the fuel pressure, that was fine. the dropped the entire exuast to make sure the cat wasn't clogged, that didn't change anything. they timed it found that was off and adjusted it and that seemed to help for a few days. they also took the truck to a tranny place and they decided it wasnt the tranny. they really couldnt figure it out.
Then just a few weeks ago I took it to the dealer figuring they might have a better handle on it cause the only work with toyotas. they said the injectors were ohming out of spec and that the MAFM/VAFM was not working and that I needed a new exhaust rounding out there repairs at $5200. I didn't take them up on that offer. since then I replaced the MAFM with another used Toyota one i got for $45 and with the help of my parental units got a set of re manufactured injectors and I paid the $300 to have them put in. guess what? nothing has changed in how the car drives.
Today braving 15 degree temps. I ran a self diagnostic using a paper clip. seemed to work ok. turned the key to ON and the OD OFF light started to flash. it flashed 6 times then paused then 2 more times and it just kept doing that. so I go to my repair manual(chilton) and try to look up what code that could be and I coundnt see anything that matched.
It may seem odd that the OD off light was flashing but the check engine light stayed on. i used the paper clip as a jumper wire between terminals te1 and e1. What does that mean?
I also tried to get some reading of the TPS. I wasnt able to get a feeler gauge to fit between the lever and screw since the throttle body is still attached to the engine but test the OHM between the VTA-e2 termonats both WOT and closed throttle I got normal reading and the same went with Vcc-e2.
tomorrow ill try this: "One final test, not listed in the FSM, would be to run the TPS shaft from idle to WOT and watch the VTA-E2 resistance and make sure it increases monotonically, no drop outs or dead spots. If you observe abrupt resistance changes, the TPS could have a burned area on one of the current tracks"
any other ideas?
you can email me also at julian.e.santana@gmail.com and if your a Twin cities resident and well equipped for this kinda stuff and willing to give me a hand let me know. so far I have been working with my dad back in AZ over the phone. he is a mechanical engineer but its limited what he can help with since he cant get his hands on the truck.
Last edited by joehill; 01-17-2009 at 06:49 PM. Reason: title
01-17-2009, 06:49 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Regina,Sk Canada
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well
For what its worth I had a similar problem and it was tps sensor. My truck would also replicate the problem with the factory air intake hooked up. The same symptoms (on a carburetored truck) were caused by choke pull off. As far as the code(s) go I cannot find a code 62 so I can only assume that it is a code 2 and a code 6. Code 2 = VAF sensor circuit and code 6 is your engine speed/ rpm sensor circuit. More on the codes...
http://www.iequus.com/downloads/manu..._E_14JAN03.pdf
From your post you have already attacked your VAFM but maybe try to clean the contacts etc...especially if you use reusable air filter. Also you can unplug your EFI fuse to clear your computer and see which codes return. hope that helps a bit.
http://www.iequus.com/downloads/manu..._E_14JAN03.pdf
From your post you have already attacked your VAFM but maybe try to clean the contacts etc...especially if you use reusable air filter. Also you can unplug your EFI fuse to clear your computer and see which codes return. hope that helps a bit.
Last edited by flatland4runner; 01-17-2009 at 06:53 PM.
01-17-2009, 08:28 PM
#3
Registered User
The reason the OD is flashing yet the CEL is not is because you are having an electronic malfunction in the transmission and not the engine. You have an electronically controlled transmission (ECT) that has it's own built in diagnostic system within the ECU.
This is direct from the FSM for Toyotas......which I find amazing the dealership techs seemed to overlook.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...31diagnosi.pdf
Your OD light is flashing a code 62 for the #1 solenoid. Could be the solenoid has gone out or just the wiring itself has been damaged somehow.
You need to determine what transmission you have and look within the appropriate section for diagnosing and testing.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...autotrans.html
If you find this be over your head, print this thread up, take the vehicle back to the dealership, and have them take another look.
This is direct from the FSM for Toyotas......which I find amazing the dealership techs seemed to overlook.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...31diagnosi.pdf
Your OD light is flashing a code 62 for the #1 solenoid. Could be the solenoid has gone out or just the wiring itself has been damaged somehow.
You need to determine what transmission you have and look within the appropriate section for diagnosing and testing.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...autotrans.html
If you find this be over your head, print this thread up, take the vehicle back to the dealership, and have them take another look.
01-17-2009, 08:35 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
I'd have to disagree- if the jumper is inserted the CEL should at least be blinking constant, reporting 'no codes stored'. If the CEL is not blinking but the OD light is... ...to check transmission codes, the jumper must be inserted as if one was checking engine codes and the O/D switch must be put in the O/D ON position.
...to check transmission codes, the jumper must be inserted as if one was checking engine codes and the O/D switch must be put in the O/D ON position.
01-17-2009, 08:48 PM
#5
Registered User
What he means is what the FSM says. "Read the number of times the O/D OFF light flashes. In other words, O/D is illuminated when off. Follow?
And, I'm pretty sure when the ECT diagnostic system is activated, that the CEL should not flash. It would be more or less like when the key is just turn the ignition, but the engine diagnostic system is not activated. The "diagnostic command" is rerouted per se. I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to remember with my V6 auto.
And, I'm pretty sure when the ECT diagnostic system is activated, that the CEL should not flash. It would be more or less like when the key is just turn the ignition, but the engine diagnostic system is not activated. The "diagnostic command" is rerouted per se. I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to remember with my V6 auto.
01-17-2009, 08:50 PM
#6
Registered User
To add, if his O/D switch was in OFF position, he would not get a flashing code. Rather a constant O/D OFF light. So, he must've had the switch in ON position.
Trending Topics
01-17-2009, 09:04 PM
#9
Registered User
What? Am I wrong? If you still disagree and know of something, Abe, you should say it.....please. Otherwise, I'm confused as to your confusion.
And, if you're going to that, atleast take pics. Norbert would appreciate knowing you thought of him.
And, if you're going to that, atleast take pics. Norbert would appreciate knowing you thought of him.
01-17-2009, 09:09 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
the first set of symptoms:
...suggests the ignition timing is not set properly... however an issue with the igniter would do the same thing.
The Problem:
First the engine will not rev under load past 2200 rpm.
It idles(in park) at about 1500 rpm, when I put it in drive it goes down to 1k rpm.
when the engine is cold and I put it in park I cant get it past 1500 rpm. If i try pushing the gas past that or all the way to the ground the needle on the tack starts jumping anywhere from under 1k to as high as 2000 rpm. at the same time a kind of popping or backfiring can be heard coming from the engine compartment.
First the engine will not rev under load past 2200 rpm.
It idles(in park) at about 1500 rpm, when I put it in drive it goes down to 1k rpm.
when the engine is cold and I put it in park I cant get it past 1500 rpm. If i try pushing the gas past that or all the way to the ground the needle on the tack starts jumping anywhere from under 1k to as high as 2000 rpm. at the same time a kind of popping or backfiring can be heard coming from the engine compartment.
01-17-2009, 09:16 PM
#15
Registered User
Sure. But, problems there wouldn't create an electronic malfunction within the ECT system. So, maybe more than one thing going on. Maybe?
01-17-2009, 10:07 PM
#16
Registered User
Well, well........my mistake. I just went out and checked the V6. The CEL does flash at the same time as the O/D. I seem to remember it not doing so when a code was present, but I have no way to verify that memory now. No codes are present. So, I'm at a loss. Therefore, please ignore.
'Cept, the OP still has a tranny code.
'Cept, the OP still has a tranny code.
01-19-2009, 04:11 PM
#17
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guess what?
Well I thought about this all day and I figured even if I couldnt check the the TPS terminals idl and e2 with a feeler guage that I should still see what reading i get. so when I got home I hooked up my multi meter to those 2 terminals and as soon as I opened the throttle I got an open/infinite reading. from what I understand this would likley mean that the sensor is no good, but i would want to check it before i tossed it.
it dosnt look to hard to remove the TB but what I cant figure out is how to drain the coolant from it.
it dosnt look to hard to remove the TB but what I cant figure out is how to drain the coolant from it.
01-19-2009, 04:22 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
does it matter what direction the tps is going? I just notices that in the fsm the terminals are looking towards the passanger side. in my truck the terminals are looking tawards the drivers side.
01-19-2009, 05:01 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Temecula Valley, CA
Posts: 12,723
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
not sure what you mean about 'passenger' or whatever side.
looking at the TPS sensor from the external side, not the side that mates with the throttle body, and the terminals pointing to the left, the terminals are (from top to bottom) Vcc, VTA, IDL, E2
The IDL-E2 connection should go infinite when the throttle is opened, and be less than 2.3Kohm when the throttle is closed.
looking at the TPS sensor from the external side, not the side that mates with the throttle body, and the terminals pointing to the left, the terminals are (from top to bottom) Vcc, VTA, IDL, E2
The IDL-E2 connection should go infinite when the throttle is opened, and be less than 2.3Kohm when the throttle is closed.
