pruney81

maybe some people will chime in about the longevity of engnbldr's parts. After this thread though I think I will just go with OEM Toyota and use my buddies discount. I like the sound of metal backed guides but since my original components have lasted 20 years and 100k miles I would imagine toyota parts would last another 20 years 100k miles I'm not even sure my timing chain needs replaced I just wanted to do it as more of a precautionary measure..

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90 22RE 4WD stick 97K miles
stock, except for Bilsteins

874runnersr5

dude i would just order the metal backed guides and use oem for the rest.. oem is plastic..
last time i checked, plastic<metal

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87' 4runner Sr5 : 22re : 5spd : 32x11.5 BGF Km2 : Cragar 15x8 soft 8s : TG Rock Defense Front Bumper : Sirius radio : Optima Red Top : Pioneer system : Engnbldr tchain kit : Downey 3" leafs : Diff breather : Tube doors : Bikini Top
Calgary Toyota Association

pruney81

that's what I was thinking, but if you read the links in the beginning of the post the engnbldr metal backed guides may cause more harm if the tensioner fails and the remnants end up in the oil pan. I don't know either way but it makes for interesting reading nonetheless..

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90 22RE 4WD stick 97K miles
stock, except for Bilsteins

flyingbrass

Engnbldr's timing kit provides the Japanese OSK tensioner (probably the most critical component in the whole timing setup). His chains are quite good if what he has said about them is correct and they are still the same. The gears are probably on par with anything Japanese made.

What's left of consequence are the guides. The passenger side doesn't matter much. The driver's side is key. It needs to be tough and long-lived. Is an OEM plastic Toyota guide better than whatever brand of steel-backed? Or vice versa?

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1986 22R 4X4 pickup. Currently rebuilding the engine.

TOYOTA 1

if the osk tensioner is better, then more than likley the rest of the osk parts are better also?


and are you saying that Chinese / Taiwanese parts are on par with oem?

i don't think the metal backed guides are osk or rock, anybody know the manufacturer?

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91 Toyota "built not bought"

pruney81

so, the OSK tensioner is on par if not better than the OEM one? The problem lies with the tensioner wearing out and thus causing the premature plastic guide wear? Is it safe to say that with the new(better) tensioner that engnbldr's parts will last a long time? I'm just looking for someone to say that they've used his parts for a while as opposed to 7500 miles...

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90 22RE 4WD stick 97K miles
stock, except for Bilsteins

9o7yota

Interesting thread...i'd really like to hear some long lived steel guide owners have to say about it...its what i put into mine..

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1990 Std Cab-- 22re -- 4x4 -- 5spd Manual -- IFS -- 4-inch Trailmaster Suspension Lift -- 33x10x15 Buckshot Mudders(weak) -- Black/Real Fire paint -- Custom Dual-pipe Exhaust(no mufflers) -- 15% Tint -- Rockford Fosgate 10" Sub -- Custom 6inch Pio' Door Speakers -- Fosgate 4inch Dash Speakers -- Bomz Black/Gray Racing Seats -- Chrome Single Bar Roll Bar -- 2 LightForce Off-Road Lights(not currently attached) -- "Smoke" Tail Lights

Status: Engine rebuild

Mob it till it breaks...AK

TOYOTA 1

i would like to here some testimony on rock myself.

and ive been told on here that the stealership sells osk so im assuming that osk is oem.

how much can you get a timing kit from your buddy at toyota?

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91 Toyota "built not bought"

pruney81

well, he works there so I think it's a 10-15 percent discount, I'd have to get back to you on that to be sure though. It might be 20 percent..At any rate I'm sure it's much more costly than engnbldr's kit.

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90 22RE 4WD stick 97K miles
stock, except for Bilsteins

TOYOTA 1

nbd i was just wondering.

you say you might not even need a t cain, have you popped the valve cover off and looked down there to see if the guide is broke? if its not then you probably dont need one, especially if its not making any noise.

though it is good preventative maintenance.

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91 Toyota "built not bought"

9o7yota

depending on the cost, the timing kit from eb is really cheap and...well.. is it worth spending all that money when its really not that hard of a job to replace a guide..in say...5 years? maybe more?

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1990 Std Cab-- 22re -- 4x4 -- 5spd Manual -- IFS -- 4-inch Trailmaster Suspension Lift -- 33x10x15 Buckshot Mudders(weak) -- Black/Real Fire paint -- Custom Dual-pipe Exhaust(no mufflers) -- 15% Tint -- Rockford Fosgate 10" Sub -- Custom 6inch Pio' Door Speakers -- Fosgate 4inch Dash Speakers -- Bomz Black/Gray Racing Seats -- Chrome Single Bar Roll Bar -- 2 LightForce Off-Road Lights(not currently attached) -- "Smoke" Tail Lights

Status: Engine rebuild

Mob it till it breaks...AK

pruney81

I haven't popped the head off...there is minor noise on occasional warm start up, I think it may be valve chatter. Either way it's 20 years old and I want to tighten up the top end. I know the timing chains are troublesome on these as I have experienced in the past and I 'd rather fix it now and avoid issues later..

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90 22RE 4WD stick 97K miles
stock, except for Bilsteins

TOYOTA 1

if i knew that a rock t set would last 5 years, probably not. but i know oem will last around 100k so imo yes.

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91 Toyota "built not bought"

TOYOTA 1

oh and pruney,

you dont remove the head to see in there just the valve cover. and there is only one chain. just an fyi.

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91 Toyota "built not bought"

9o7yota

lol, well..how long do you assume the steel backed guide will last?

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1990 Std Cab-- 22re -- 4x4 -- 5spd Manual -- IFS -- 4-inch Trailmaster Suspension Lift -- 33x10x15 Buckshot Mudders(weak) -- Black/Real Fire paint -- Custom Dual-pipe Exhaust(no mufflers) -- 15% Tint -- Rockford Fosgate 10" Sub -- Custom 6inch Pio' Door Speakers -- Fosgate 4inch Dash Speakers -- Bomz Black/Gray Racing Seats -- Chrome Single Bar Roll Bar -- 2 LightForce Off-Road Lights(not currently attached) -- "Smoke" Tail Lights

Status: Engine rebuild

Mob it till it breaks...AK

81yotalove

I just did the job it wasn't that hard, did end up pulling the pan to get the guide pieces out, and painted while it was out. I used engnbldr metal backed kit and didn't think twice on using it by how many people use his parts on here. And I agree with 907yota the job isn't that hard and even if I do the job again in maybe five years that's still only 150 dollars for two on his kits with shipping instead of oem and I priced it out and is somewhere around 350 for oem.

pruney81

I know there is only one chain, thanks though, but I will most likely be replacing the head gasket and t-chain at once. I just want to tighten up the top end of my 99K mile 22re..

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90 22RE 4WD stick 97K miles
stock, except for Bilsteins

9o7yota

99k? i bought my truck at 102k. The timing guide went out around 200-220k. Dont worry about your guides just yet. The HG wont be an issue until later on as well. just adjust your valves if necessary... i cant see you needing anything else done man..seriously... its too early on that engine is just getting broken in.

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1990 Std Cab-- 22re -- 4x4 -- 5spd Manual -- IFS -- 4-inch Trailmaster Suspension Lift -- 33x10x15 Buckshot Mudders(weak) -- Black/Real Fire paint -- Custom Dual-pipe Exhaust(no mufflers) -- 15% Tint -- Rockford Fosgate 10" Sub -- Custom 6inch Pio' Door Speakers -- Fosgate 4inch Dash Speakers -- Bomz Black/Gray Racing Seats -- Chrome Single Bar Roll Bar -- 2 LightForce Off-Road Lights(not currently attached) -- "Smoke" Tail Lights

Status: Engine rebuild

Mob it till it breaks...AK

874runnersr5

good thing is has a owner like you! haha, i wish my truck hg/tchain was done at every 100k

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87' 4runner Sr5 : 22re : 5spd : 32x11.5 BGF Km2 : Cragar 15x8 soft 8s : TG Rock Defense Front Bumper : Sirius radio : Optima Red Top : Pioneer system : Engnbldr tchain kit : Downey 3" leafs : Diff breather : Tube doors : Bikini Top
Calgary Toyota Association

pruney81

I've had a few 22re's with 200K plus miles and I know what it takes to make a 22re run forever...it's better to fix a timing chain before it starts wearing into the timing cover than after

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90 22RE 4WD stick 97K miles
stock, except for Bilsteins

AZ89LONGBED

I'll give a big (((X2))) for Engnbldr. Ted knows his stuff, and his advising/shipping/warranty/etc. end of his business impressed me enough that I had to order one of his RV heads & 268 cams. I would imagine he would stand behind any other parts he offers as well. Can't go wrong with EB, if you do, they will make it right.

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89 Longbed PU with lots of AZ pinstriping

My DD build so far: an LCE shortblock, EB street/RV head & 268 cam, LCE header, Magnaflow cat, LC cat-back. Taco rims, 235-85r16 GY Duratracs. The future: Install the 4.88's & e-locker sitting in my garage, t-case gears, sliders, mild lift with bj spacers & 2" springs...

yota4runna

I'm rebuilding a 22RE at this moment. It's an all original 1987 4Runner that has 242,000 miles on it. It's never been apart before. The reason I'm going through he engine is the failure of the OE plastic timing chain guide. Here's what happened:



Notice the chunk of the guide missing on the upper right in the picture. That chunk of plastic got caught between the chain and the crankshaft gear, and caused the chain to jump camshaft timing, and caused the pistons to hit all four intake valves, bending them.

Sometimes after high miles, that guide will finish breaking off, as it has started to do in this engine, and simply slip down into the oil pan without causing the engine to jump time. Then, with the guide gone, the timing chain will rub against the timing chain cover, and eventually will wear through into the water pump cavity, causing the "coolant in the oil" syndrome.

A steel backed guide can't break like this. The 20R engine, predecessor to the 22RE, had steel backed guides, and you never heard of guide problems with them.

This is why I like to use the steel backed guides on these engines when I do a timing chain replacement. It's cheap insurance against a catastrophe.

TOYOTA 1

im pretty sure osk is oem. and the osk kit is only $60 and its better than tiawaneese.

so if the price is about the same wouldnt you go with the japan made oem stuff?

@ the op, why dont you try a cloyes t set. its only 50. or you cold just go to lce and get something over kill.

1. o.s.k - $60
2. djrock- $46
3. cloyes- $50
4. lce - $100

you have commitment issues lol jk.

pull the trigger on one my friend!

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91 Toyota "built not bought"

flyingbrass

Here's an older thread where Ted elaborates on the parts used in his kits: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=211732

I don't think miles alone are a good gauge of guide wear. For example, my engine only had 116K on it, but 23 years of regular use. That's a lot of starts. Take a look at my guides here.

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1986 22R 4X4 pickup. Currently rebuilding the engine.

flyingbrass

They can, but it doesn't seem to be common. I don't remember if it was here or another forum, but a guy posted a picture of his steel backed guide broken off at the top (same place our plastic guides broke). I think his came from DOA, not that it matters.

In Ted's instructions he says to adjust the driver's side guide so there is clearance or at most only very light contact between it and the chain.

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1986 22R 4X4 pickup. Currently rebuilding the engine.