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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

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Old 09-27-2011, 07:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Engine RPM's going up then down, then up and down by itself

As title states the engine RPM's going up then down, then up and down, then up and down by itself over and over and over & me touching nothing.

I started truck to set timing and it started right off and ran and when it was warm I use a jumper between TE1 and E1 to bypass ECM timing advance and got it all set and took out the jumper and it started to do the RPM's going up then down, then up and down by itself over and over till I turned off engine, I waited till it cooled down and restarted engine and right off and it did the up and down RPM's over and over. What did I do? Did I short out something to do with making the RPM's surging like it's doing?

I did not touch anything else beside what's needed to do timing, the jumper & moving dist. to get timing adjusted & hooking up timing light and removing timing light power lines to new battery and attaching inductive pick-up around the #1 spark plug wire. Help please! And what did I F-up this time?
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Your base idle is too high. Turn it down, the screw on the throttle body, to about 750-800 RPM's. Once you set the idle, then you want to set the timing by doing what you did with the jumper.

A new engine? When I put my new one in, the idle was too fast at the inital start up. I had to turn it down quite a bit actually.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Everything but short block is new, what if it surges when I start it again tomorrow, just go ahead and turn the big screw on top of TB right away or wait till temp gets to half way on water temp gauge then adjust it?

And on the timing how do you do it start to finish, haynes manual doesn't say anything about 22re to be set at with jumper in the TE1 AND E1 at 5 degrees or 0 degrees TDC.

And what it should it read with timing light "after" jumper is removed?

Question? Why did it only do it after jumper was remove and not B4 if idle was too high?

This is my first timing adjustment on 22re, I tried for couple hours for an answer to my problem, but no luck, so I did the thread...Thanks for any advice snobdds :}
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Set idle to 750-800. This should be set when the motor is at operating tempature.

Jump the TE1 and E1 in the diag. box. There should be a slight decrease in RPM's. This will let you know if the TPS is working properly.

Set the timing to 5* BTDC

Remove the jumper

The timing should advance to around 12* BTDC with no jumper in it. There should also be no pinging. Do not crank down of the adjuster bolt, just snug it up.

Then you know the timing is set right. The idle should still be around 750-800 and there should be no surging.
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Okey dokey, Thanks a bunch, wish me luck today, I'll post result in case another has the same problem...Tater!!!!
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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[/QUOTE]A new engine? When I put my new one in, the idle was too fast at the inital start up. I had to turn it down quite a bit actually.[/QUOTE]

I just cleaned my throttle body and had the same issue. High idle. My throttle adjustment is 1/4 turn out now. Runs smoother. Now for the EGR. . .
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Always thought a surging idle was a symptom of a bad TPS.. How high does the idle go when it surges and how low does it go?
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok gang this is what happened, I started truck today and it idled high which is normal when cold and waited till it warmed up and it never did idle down like a normal engine would and again when it got warm it did the up and down RPM's over and over till I did what snobdds said and turned down the adjustment screw on top of TB and the surging of RPM's stopped, I turned it all the way down and the idle went down to 1100 I put in the jumper and right away the RPM's dropped to 1000 but no further and I adjusted the dist. till the timing was at 5 degrees and then I removed jumper and it went to 12 degrees and and idle went up to 1750 RPM's and just stays there and doesn't drop or go up, Here's the kicker, you step on brake pedal the RPM's take a nose dive to 700 RPMs and then up to 1500 and back down to 500 then 700 then 1500 and starts all over, release brake and it jumps to 1750 and stays and if you push on accelerator till 2000 RPM's the surging starts again like in the start of this thread and does it again over and over...

This is what is new or used,
new pro head & 268 cam from engnbldr.
new timing set timing cover water pump & oil pump 4piece a-la-cart from engnbldr.
new dual stage thermostat.
new cap, rotor, plugs & wires.
new used MAFM with the air filter bottom box too.new used full guage cluster from 22re 2wd from same truck as the MAFM came from.
new gaskets and seals everywhere.
new radiator cap.
new oem air filter
new pcv valve
new oil pressure guage sender.
new oem radiator hoses.

Most of the items would have no effect on the surging, I have no idea what's causing it???

Everything else is the same as when it was disassembled, truck ran great till the old mafm went bad, that's why I got a new used one that included everything from TB to the air filter box, it idled down like normal when I got it and it didn't do the RPM surging up and down up and down over and over.

I bought a oem single stage before I bought the dual one, but used the dual stage.

I also did the valve check and adjustment and check HB torque and only 2 moved a smidgen till wrench clicked at 60 foot lbs...

The truck is possessed by a demon!!!! :}LOL

1st pic of left side oil and water temp when engine warm.

Click the image to open in full size.

2nd pic of right side battery and fuel.

Click the image to open in full size.

3rd pic of tach where it sat at 1750 RPM's and wouldn't go down, after timing was adjusted and jumper removed.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Ok, you have some unmeatered air coming into the system somewhere. Check all your vac hoses for air leaks with a can of carb cleaner. Spray around all the vaccume hoses, if the idle surges up then you know where you leak is.

If your confident all your vac. lines are ok, then I would look into the Idle air control valve next. Depending on the year, it is either built onto the underside of the throttle body or it is positioned right below it. Do not take it apart; the spring is too hard to get positioned back correctly!!! Just take off the hoses and make sure air can get through it and it is not clogged. If this is not clogged up, then...

It's time to check the TPS. Go to 4 crawler's site and get the resitence measurments to test the TPS, it should be pretty easy to get. Once you do those things let us know what you find out.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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no way jose how do i twitter? what's a linkedin? atari pong toyota
I see no mention in your posts about TPS. Bad TPS will do everything you've described. You can test to see if it's in spec, and then check it's adjustment on the throttle body.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:27 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasinvictor View Post
I see no mention in your posts about TPS. Bad TPS will do everything you've described. You can test to see if it's in spec, and then check it's adjustment on the throttle body.
However it was running fine before the swap, therfore it would be highly suspect this is his problem...but needs to be check out to be eliminated.
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well nothing as of yet, still idling at 2000 PM's, when first started it at 1100 then slowly while it's warming and going up till 2000 and just sits there, I put jumper in and was told if idle went down TPS was working and the RPM's went down to 1750 and took out jumper and it went back to 2000 and stayed and if you step on brakes it dives to 1000 and goes back and forth to 1500 then back to 1000 and so on until you take foot off brake pedal then climbs back to 2000 and stays.

This what I did today, sprayed starter fluid over all the vac lines and no change in the engine RPM's, pulled the vac lines to check for any obstructions and put in new oem single stage thermostat I already had before I got the dual stage one, I installed a prestone T for flushing, and while engine was running I undid cap a little bit to help get out any air and close it when water comes out, temp gauge stays at 1/2 way with water in system, Oil pressure at 1/2 way.

I got a craftsmen dial multimeter, but never used one before, I'm at present reading instruction manual and reading the 4crawler TPS check and how ohms work, and I'm going to give it a try tomorrow and see what it does and I go by the web site, I hope I do it right, so we'll see, if the TPS checks out what next? Would a bad TPS make the brakes do the drop in RPM's? the dime size adjustment screw is turned all the way down if you turn it up it does the RPM surging like before, I swear it's possessed!!!! I bet it was built on a Friday, Oh to see it's manufactured date, Going to name it Christine!!!!

I went to ACE and got allen head stainless steel M4-12mm long fine thread 70 pitch machine screws for the TPS sensor on TB for easy adjusting and went to Menards and got there mm package of round end allen wrench's ($7.99, ACE and Sears wanted $19.99 and up for same type mm set) for angle screwing in of allen head bolts and using the 3mm for the m4-12mm machine screws...

How about I go get the TB from the 2wd truck I got mafm and full gauge cluster from, it was running when it was wreaked so is it worth taking a chance? I might get it for 20 bucks like the other 2 items each...

Toyotapartest.com have the new TPS for 76 bucks, mine calls for TPS 89452-12040.
Well it's 1:21am my time, so any comments or help is always much appreciated, nighty night!!!!
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The surgeing can be caused by tps, not enough coolant, the peice on the bottom of the throttle body( cant remember the name somebody chime in for me LOL), coolant temp sensor, theres alot of things that cause it on these trucks mine was doing the same thing and the coolant temp sensor is what fixed mine.
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I have the same problem as op. Allot of people reference that I need to bleed coolant thoroughly which I have done numerous times and still have the problem. Maybe I am not doing it right and then I had a shop bleed it for me and still has the problem. I am subscribed here to see what you come up with.

thank you.
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Water/coolant temp sensor is 56 bucks from dealer and a new TPS from dealer is 93 bucks, I went to salvage yard and got the TB from the 92 2wd 22R-E motor truck, the same truck I got the full guage cluster and the MAFM assmbley from the TB to the bottom of air filter box, and tomorrow if I can make it, I'll give the new used TB a try and post my results, I should have grabbed the water/cooant temp sensor but dumb ass me I forgot too. I have to make a new gasket between TB and upper intake and put it on and see what happens. I'll post results tomorrow night...
Have a glorious evening every one!!!!
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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That should cover everything lol hope you get it fixed man its really annoying and makes everyone look t you like damn is that thing going to fall apart LOL good luck with it. Oh and if you put a part on one at a time then you can rule out which thing was causeing your prob
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm sick with the nasty flu, going to be a while to get up to my aunts barn and work on it and switch TB, I hope it only lasts a few more days...Will update when I'm back at it...

John...
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Old 10-03-2011, 07:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I hope this isn't premature, but today I swapped the Throttle Bodies out and also made a new gasket out of roll of some Felpro gasket material and got it all back together, I got the throttle body for 30 bucks from the wreaked 92 I got the gauge cluster and the MAFM and hoped since it was running when it was wreaked that it was fully functional and also FSAG I also got the vac. valves on the bracket that sits on the valve cover just in case for 10 bucks but never used it.

I then fired it up and it idled at 1500 RMS's cold (It didn't sputter once) and after it warmed up it went to around 1000 RPM's and then turned the dime size flat head screwdriver slot screw turned down turning to the right 1 and a 1/4 turn and the idle went down to 750 RPM's and just purred except for some valve clatter more than normal I assume because of the 268 RV cam in the prohead from Engnbldr and it was adjusted at the first time the engine got warm and did the timing and valve adjustment.

I am hoping that it does great on the restart tomorrow when it's cold and idle high then when warm go down to 750 RPM's like tonight. We'll see, got fingers crossed and if it checks out I'll be changing the oil too and get hood back on and take it for a test drive in the local housing addition since I don't have plates yet and next month get new plates and decide if I'm going to sell my current ride the B2300 to buy new 30x9.50 or 31x10.50 BFG All Terrain KO's, I had a set of 30x9.50's on my XJ and they did great at the BadLands in Attica Indiana, but I still haven't decided fully on what size, you will all have to wait and see, and then also get around to installing my new toy for the toy I got off Craigslist...

Oh yea I also need new front 1/2 shafts too, both side boots are torn and splattered all the grease out of them, and of course I have to remove the gauge cluster now, got I guess 2 bulbs out, I didn't test out the lights before I buttoned it all up, and I even put it all back together at night, damned brain farts stink!!!! LOL!!!!

Ps. If I think of anything else I'll be sure to add it!!!!
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Well good news all, replacing the TB was the call, at cold start it's at 1500RPM's and while it warming up idle keeps going down till it gets to 750 and stops and just purs :} I hope I didn't just jinks it :}LOL

One thing happened while it was idling the tach went all the way to the bottom to 0 and then to 250 then back up to 750 and stayed and engine sound didn't change when that happened, got something wrong maybe, Only time will tell, might have to go to Indy to see if that 2wd still has the full gauge cluster for 50 bucks, the one I have now has housing damage from the wreak the truck I got it from had when the steering collapsed, you can see it on my build thread...
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