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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

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Old 11-05-2009, 07:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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EGR valve removal for performance?

I was reading up on the function of the EGR valve and now im wondering if bypassing it would improve performance on my 86 22ret turbo runner. I understand that without the emmissions recirculater you would get a hotter and more combustible air/fuel mix. and that the factory ECU would be capable of adjusting to the change. anyone ever heard of doing this? thanks.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You will see zero performance gain from removing the EGR. In fact, you'll be more likely to detonate under cruising loads, especially uphill.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Not something I would want to try, really would not want to detonate it either
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Noooooooooooooooooo. Not another one. There's like 2 of these threads, one of which has a huge debate in it about environmental factors. Some say you will gian performance, some say you won't. I'll leave it at that.
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I have a turbo motor (4G63) and have the EGR blocked off. I have the 3VZE and have the EGR blocked off....I have seen no gains and no loss. Just less possible vacuum leaks to deal with.
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I blocked mine once to isolate a problem. Besides running better cause the egr was stuck open when I blocked it off. When I pulled and cleaned the egr, no couldn't tell any performance difference. It only suppose to open in the high rpms when they are held constantly. They engine tend to run lean at such times, lean conditions cause higher temps, like you said. Yes, leads to NOx production but also cause engine problems over time, like what also was posted. I've heard of people burning holes in pistons in extreme cases.

If yours is stuck open you'll notice a big improvement but not so if it functioning properly. (yes I said that twice intentionally.) A can of carb cleaner and a small bottle brush can do wonders.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perpetrat0r View Post
I was reading up on the function of the EGR valve and now im wondering if bypassing it would improve performance on my 86 22ret turbo runner. I understand that without the emmissions recirculater you would get a hotter and more combustible air/fuel mix. and that the factory ECU would be capable of adjusting to the change. anyone ever heard of doing this? thanks.
This would give you poorer performance. hot air is the bain of horsepowers existance!
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This would give you poorer performance. hot air is the bain of horsepowers existance!
EGR does not operate when throttle is full open, so there is no performance effect whatsoever. When it is operating, in mid-throttle positions, it keeps combustion temps down, putting less stress on the head gasket and exhaust valves, while keeping nox down, and it actually improves gas mileage slightly. The lower temps also reduce detonation, as mentioned, so the computer doesn't retard the timing as much as it does without the EGR.

From a physics standpoint, adding an inert gas to the combustion chamber effectively reduces engine displacement, but only while the motor is cruising.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yep- What sb5walker said.
The ECU only turns on the EGR when the throttle is maintaining a relatively consistant position, as in moderate throttle positions such as cruising on the highway. It should not be operational at either idle or at more than 2/3 throttle and therefore should not affect net power output.

The comment about adding an inert gas is true as well, to a point. Adding the inert gas does not change the displacement since displacement is a purely physical measurement however adding the inert gas displaces free oxygen in the intake stream which in turn requires less combustible material be added. Overall, the displacement of the engine does not change but the amount of oxygen and fuel does.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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So why are people saying that removing the EGR valve is a horrible idea when this thread about de-smogging seems so popular? http://www.yotatech.com/f114/de-smog...ly-22r-205845/
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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OK points to be clear about:

1) The EGR is not controlled by the ECU its is not an electronic system on these vehicles
2) The EGR is vacuum controlled
3) The EGR is US and EURO spec equipment not JDM, JDM 3vze's do not have it
4) It is an emissions system not a performance, nor a purpose build system for lean conditions or any conditions those are computer controlled via fuel and timing
5) The gain in elimination is access and simplicity, also repairs to the system are expensive
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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...
1) The EGR is not controlled by the ECU its is not an electronic system on these vehicles
..
Are you thinking of the Fed. 22re? Cali. 22re and all 3vze have an ECU-controlled VSV. It may be limited to suppressing gas re-circulation when the engine is below a certain temperature, but controlled by the ECU it is.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The VSV is computer controlled your right, but the systems key is the modulator. The VSV controls amount of fresh air, low or high, its like a override switch.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I seem to have two vsv devices on my valve cover and am in process removing the egr system for appearance and reliability gain... do I need either one of these?
part numbers 90910 12067 and 90910 12065
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I seem to have two vsv devices on my valve cover and am in process removing the egr system for appearance and reliability gain... do I need either one of these?
part numbers 90910 12067 and 90910 12065
You don't give enough information. But based on this You have a 95 4runner with 4cylinder? 22re EGR system doesn't have a VSV it uses a TVV, but double check on your emissions routing sticker on the underside of the hood.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:11 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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You don't give enough information. But based on this You have a 95 4runner with 4cylinder? 22re EGR system doesn't have a VSV it uses a TVV, but double check on your emissions routing sticker on the underside of the hood.
Oh HECK!
It's my 88 single cab and I just got it from a guy who didn't know shizzle...
"blah blah blah I'm a ASE certified mechanic"
oil was pitch black...
head gasket was blown...
oil pan leaked like a sieve
timing chain was eating through the cover...
basically a dead truck with a lot of potential...
but those part numbers are on the parts that were installed with my emissions system...
I don't know if this truck has had a previous transplant but it's possible...
I'm just trying to find out what I can do away with and what I need to keep....
when I looked up those part numbers they came up as vsv parts and I'm just not that into having all that stuff to break on me anyways... japan doesn't put this stuff on their cars at home...(course they put a nuclear reactor out in the ocean) but their toyotas run good
all of the write-ups I read on de-smogging a truck are a lil bit lacking and more than a few of them are for 20R-22R and not 22RE... not to mention that little fact that only if you are like a surgeon with words can you actually help someone out in this regard as it's not technically legal to tell someone to take off their emissions crud... that being said.......
After my rebuild, I just want to know what I need to keep and how to fool my computer into thinking it's all hunky dory (my egr valve doesn't function properly and it's off... plated shut.... and so is the injection port on the head... and the reed/pair valve is off too....
I am left with some connections unconnected and I believe that most of these are emissions...but I'm not sure if I did it well enough that I can run it this way or not...
would you like me to post some pictures of these things?
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:11 AM
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