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OK. I pulled the EGR and it appears stuck. No a lot of carbon but some as expected.
Since the FAM says "replace" I guess in the meantime I'm going to mess with it via electrolysis and maybe some heat/cool cycles...
any other suggestions?
So keeping the diaphragm dry I ran it through several cycles of reverse electrolysis, reversing to poles every few minutes and that at least cleaned the rust up 90%.
Then using compressed air I blew it out gradually increasing the pressure near the top but in the end under 90+psi when I closed the lower ports and blew into one I could make the diaphragm flutter, making a sound like a fourth graders arm fart. It clearly moves when pressure is applied from above and below with no signs of leakage.
My question becomes "How much vacuum is required from the EGR vac modulator to the EGR valve to actuate it?"
To my ear it sounds like it's starving for fuel. Is 18 psi that much to low
18 psi is WAY too low for the 22re to run correctly. do a search for how to properly test the fuel rail pressure, and verify what it really is. if it is 18 psi, other testing is ambiguous at best.
I believe the vacuum works in conjunction with the exhaust back pressure to open the EGR. I can't read the gauge in the video but that's probably my device not the video. Could you say a few words about that test setup?
Wally, thank you for reminding me about the fuel pressure. I'd set it aside for later and forgot.
The spec is IRC 39# at idle, and it should hold at 25# when the pump is off. These are found with the diagnostic info under EFI fueling section of the FSM.
Thanks guys. So to your questions.
The test setup is just a T running to my engine vac tester (upside down in vid) the egr port and the in house vac which runs up to 7 inch pounds on the tester.
so the valve is opening @4-6 psi approximately.
I need a proper fluid pressure gauge to test the fuel pressure more accurately.
The air pressure gauge was all I had laying around.
but as mentioned fuel pressure is not a prime suspect if I can run at freeway speeds. And it at least shows it holding pressure.
I'm going to do the reinstall later this AM and will report back.
Snow has finally arrived here so getting started may be delayed.
I need a proper fluid pressure gauge to test the fuel pressure more accurately.
The air pressure gauge was all I had laying around.
but as mentioned fuel pressure is not a prime suspect if I can run at freeway speeds.
yeah, no. it doesn't work that way.
doesn't mean your pressure isn't good, but if you haven't verified it, you can't make informed decisions for troubleshooting.
i went through a long process of trying to get my 22re to run correctly. over a three year period, i replaced 8 failed fuel pumps, and other things that i tested and verified as OK/failed. for the first few times, i figured it couldn't be the pump, since i had replaced it recently. until i put in a permanent pressure gauge, at which point i realized it was the pumps. even at 20 psi, i could run at highway speeds. below 3000 rpm, it didn't run well, but once over 3000, it ran well enough. below 20 psi, it didn't run well at all.
a permanent gauge can be installed for less than $70. use a liquid-filled gauge. do not buy the LCE fuel pressure gauge. it is junk.
Thanks guys, yes this particular guage is suspect but that ws why I used it.
it was a junker as I was unsure of how it would work with gas.
Turns out that was not of concern so the only question is its calibration.
I'll check it but assume something else like Wally says. Fuel pump.
My tank was originally off a dually motorhome and though it fit fine when I ordered
a new fuel pump LAST year the mounting hardware for the 88 pu and the motor home seem to be way different.
As in I had to cut and weld nearly reverseing the orientation to get it to fit.
So you can understand why I wanted to skip that part...
My only saving grace in all of that was to access the unit I had to cut a hole in my bed utilizing the natural x members of my bed floor support as 'joists'. Sure glad my bed is off a 56 GMC and plywood.
In the meantime I've reinstalled the EGR
but not before cleaning up the surfaces. After running it through the drill press crossfeed vice with a surface prep die grinder pad... I'm amazed it ever made it to the assembly line.
and double checked the lines.
Pulled each plug wire and found #2 suspect.
Pulled the cap and the rotor end looked like it had build up of some kind.
I took a small hone to it and the contacts inside the cap as they looked a bit suspect too.
It fired right up and ran better. Almost normal for the first 15 sec or more.
Then around 30 (I wasn't measuring) it was the end of the video all over again.
I'll go check the volume flow from the CSI next as I recall seeing a test for that.
OK after comparing that gauge to two others (one liq filled) in my air supply system it registers at least 20 psi lower than the other two. So doubling the numbers in the first part of the vid put the fuel pressure in spec.
So trying not to lose sight of that started this was a long drive and COLD. it seems cold in particular, though, once the symptoms begins it's no longer dependent on cold to manifest. WTF? over. So what about a long drive changes things?
Also just because I've hooked the old EGR vac mod unit doesn't mean its gonna work now.
I could be in a cart>horse situation till that part arrives.
EGR valve, was stuck open, now it seals.
EGR modulator, diaphragm stuck, replacement ordered.
EGR bvsv, ? <- should not be open untill operating temperature
Throttle body vacuum port E, ? <- should not have vacuum at idle
still assuming you have vacuum at port E at the throttlebody...
Now that the EGR valve closes, disconnect its vacuum lines from the throttle body port (plug the vacuum leak on the throttle body), if either or both of the above are issues they're now out of the equation.
I still think the valve just doesn't get a work out on your short low speed daily. Then when you took the long >50mph drive the system finally activated. Once the valve started to open it jammed and didn't close again. And you've had a mal adjusted throttle plate and malfunctioning bvsv for a while but since your not hitting the rpm or speed required to activate the EGR it just never showed as an issue.
EGR bvsv, ? <- should not be open untill operating temperature
Throttle body vacuum port E, ? <- should not have vacuum at idle
Thanks for the feedback on this. I usually like a good challenge but this is beyond my paygrade.
Quick question... I don't quite get the ?>- meaning.
First column is the part. Comma separated the results. Arrows indicate my questions or notes.
you didn't give the test results for those two parts..
The EGR bvsv, is the upright device with two vacuum lines located in front of and below the intake next to the other two horizontal sensors. It should not pass air when cold.
The other is on the throttle body, the small pipes coming off the top near the front. They will have small markings indicating the port. Port E should be the outer one (your left, cars right).
It should not have vacuum at idle.
The bvsv is not really serviceable, I guess it could plug up if it injested something, like the others if it's already not working you can't make it worse by trying to clean it. Definitely clean of any scale build up but that would be an opposing problem where it reads the coolant temp low and opens later than it should.
The vacuum port if it has vacuum at idle is most likely a clogged air filter. The next reasonable problem would be a sticky or a too tight throttle cable. The very unlikely cause is the throttle plate has been adjusted wrong.
"Beyond my paygrade" yeah we noticed the electrolytic magic. this is way below your pay scale, now go get greasy.
I confess to being 80% finished on a 58 GMC 100 I6 resto and over that time have played with lots of new (to me) things.. Just nickel plated the shackle bars just for S&G's.
Not only have I done it all I had to learn it all to do it. Welding, body work, painting, buffing,
So this foray into EFI land is now just another project as I see it.
I keep thinking I need some kind of check list but that is one of the reasons I started the thread...
I'll get on the answers and post if I don't get sidetracked trying to make and thread a sleeve for the gearshift dash attaching mount, on the hand built replica of 1936? South Bend 9" bench top I picked up this last year.
You did say go get greasy...
It just occurred to ask if there is a difference for diagnostic purposes in the meaning of the word "idle".
as in
when it first starts and runs on what ever the 'start circuit ' is
or the 'circuit' active once the ECU takes over which is (I believe) once it warms up?
It just occurred to ask if there is a difference for diagnostic purposes in the meaning of the word "idle".
as in
when it first starts and runs on what ever the 'start circuit ' is
or the 'circuit' active once the ECU takes over which is (I believe) once it warms up?
Generally Idle is "no throttle input".
On these Toyota's it also includes the TPS "Idl" (idle) signal being active ( or high if you are familiar with the electronic lingo ) which tells the ECU it's in the idle state.
For practical purposes Idle means either the warm idle (~800rpm) or the cold idle (~1000), unless specifically called out as warm or cold.
The computer sees states, Engine off, Engine cranking, Engine running. "Start circuit" is the warm up phase, it does do some modifications based on various temp readings to the enrichment but it does that constantly, essentially all it is doing is opening the valve that by passes the throttle plate.
Not really sure why I typed out this last bit but I guess I will leave it.
Looking at the tests in the FSM for the EGR system they use a no load rpm of 3000-3500rpm ( I think 3k is a typo fwiw ) for EGR activation. Which in my experience is kind of high, I cruise at around 2k at highway speed in overdrive with the turbo engine, and my 2wd something like 2200-2400 (it's been awhile, too long!)
On the California emissions spec vehicles, at least on later models, don't use the temperature valve at all these are switched electronically and probably have better algorithms.
First column is the part. Comma separated the results. Arrows indicate my questions or notes.
you didn't give the test results for those two parts..
The EGR bvsv, is the upright device with two vacuum lines located in front of and below the intake next to the other two horizontal sensors. It should not pass air when cold.
BVSV passed the test per FAM EC-14
The other is on the throttle body, the small pipes coming off the top near the front. They will have small markings indicating the port. Port E should be the outer one (your left, cars right).
It should not have vacuum at idle.
It does not have vac at idle and does open in proportion to throttle input. :
and this line to satisfy some software code or something.
Last edited by Step Side 88; 01-12-2017 at 12:25 PM.
Reason: changed color
01-09-2017, 01:57 PM
