Do I need an oil pump?

the_supernerd · 07-02-2009, 04:17 PM

I have an '88 pickup with a 22R. It seems to take longer than it should to build oil pressure when it is started. It happens cold, but it is worse when warmed up. I have installed an oil pressure gauge, and the pressure seems to be fine once it is built up. I installed a new oil pump about 4k ago when I did the timing chain, but it was a discount brand.

I was using a Fram oil filter, but I switched to genuine Toyota and it still does the same thing. I have changed the oil since, and the problem did not change. I am using Castrol 10w-30, which I have always used. I also cleaned the pickup screen and the sludge out of the oil pan when I did the timing chain. Could the discount oil pump be going out? Wouldn't it always have bad oil pressure if that was the case?

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NicCantDecide · 07-02-2009, 04:22 PM

I noticed my oil pressure drop over a 1500 mile trip I did and I thought it was just low oil, but my oil is full. I'm having trouble building oil pressure also, usually sticks at the first line on the oil pressure gauge.

I have a 3VZ-E but I'd probably attribute it to an oil pump going out. I'm going to change my oil tomorrow and see if that helps.

If anyone else has some input that can help either of us that would be awesome.

camo31"10.50" · 07-02-2009, 04:30 PM

hahaha..when i seen this thread title..i was ooooohhh my jeezus..here we go again another 22re oil cap removed runs funny thread..LMAO..

no idea on your problem bud..i gots a 22r and it shoots right up to 50-75psi at idle..of course its a FRESH rebuild (less than 50miles)

Marc · 07-02-2009, 06:09 PM

Define longer than it should?

the_supernerd · 07-02-2009, 09:57 PM

It takes a few seconds for pressure to build. I have never timed it, but I can sometimes rev it two or three times before the pressure builds. It is long enough for the engine to start knocking a little, which I know is bad for it. In my 4x4 and most other vehicles I have been in, the light usually goes out as soon as the engine is started.

Once the pressure is up, it seems to be good. Hot idle is about 25 PSI, cold idle is about 50, fast idle is usually maxed out at 75.

abecedarian · 07-02-2009, 10:04 PM

rev it two-three times? what does that mean?
pushing the gas pedal down?

BigBluePile · 07-02-2009, 10:22 PM

Man, I'd almost be willing to change the oil pump to a "good" one. It's soooo easy to change.

Ah, well, another thing you could try (I may get flammed for this too) is drain out some of your oil and put in some Lucas Oil Stabilzer. You'll have to read on the bottle what the ratio per quanity of oil your putting in is. I use to run this in my motor but it does foam up and I stopped using it. The thing with Lucas is that its crazy thick, like molases. So, on initial start it climbs the gears WAY faster than plain oil does. I guess if you did the Lucas thing and that DIDN'T help, I'd be changing the oil pump because to me it's not pullin oil like it should. I would think that you shouldn't have to rev your motor to get oil pressure!!!! Sounds like bearing washout in the works to me!!!

jtruck79 · 07-02-2009, 10:33 PM

did i hear you right saying when u did ur t cahin u cleaned the sludge out of your pu screen. man ouchy. would highly doubt that your oil pump is your issue since you stated that the oil pressure light goes out right at startup. i believe its time to drop the pan and change the rod and main bearings.. have fun make friends

abecedarian · 07-02-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtruck79

did i hear you right saying when u did ur t cahin u cleaned the sludge out of your pu screen. man ouchy. would highly doubt that your oil pump is your issue since you stated that the oil pressure light goes out right at startup. i believe its time to drop the pan and change the rod and main bearings.. have fun make friends

HUH? Do I need to watch Dances With Wolves to get a translation?

the_supernerd · 07-02-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abecedarian

rev it two-three times? what does that mean?
pushing the gas pedal down?

It means that I start it, then give it a little gas to rev the motor. Sometimes two or three pumps of the pedal. I do not rev it high, maybe just 2000 RPMs with each pump of the pedal.

BigBluePile · 07-02-2009, 11:08 PM

abe stop!! I peed when I read that!!!!

the_supernerd · 07-02-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtruck79

did i hear you right saying when u did ur t cahin u cleaned the sludge out of your pu screen. man ouchy. would highly doubt that your oil pump is your issue since you stated that the oil pressure light goes out right at startup. i believe its time to drop the pan and change the rod and main bearings.. have fun make friends

If I remember right, there was not much sludge on the pickup screen. There were some chunks of timing chain guide and a few pieces of metal that I believe were from the timing chain cover. There was some sludge in the bottom of the pan. The oil light does not go out at startup. It takes a few seconds to go out, I installed a gauge, and it does the same as the light.

This truck has 264k on it, so worn parts are definitely a possibility. I know the valve train is a little worn, but I was thinking the lower end is still ok.

abecedarian · 07-02-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_supernerd

It means that I start it, then give it a little gas to rev the motor. Sometimes two or three pumps of the pedal. I do not rev it high, maybe just 2000 RPMs with each pump of the pedal.

So you get 2000 rpm's with each pump of the pedal... therefore you hit 6000 rpm?

Relax, I get what you meant- you rev to 2000 or so each time you depress the pedal. Do you realize that doing that will affect the choke operation? You should only pump the pedal once before starting (if cold) then crank and let it idle without pumping again.

Maybe you should relate the oil pressure to the time it takes to get pressure after starting the engine and letting it idle. And take in to consideration any air left in the oil pressure line since it will delay readings to the gauge... you're using one of those mechanical gauges with the polypropylene tubing, right?

BigBluePile · 07-02-2009, 11:18 PM

Try the Lucas and see what happens.

abecedarian · 07-02-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBluePile

abe stop!! I peed when I read that!!!!

That's what the p'up screen is for.

the_supernerd · 07-02-2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abecedarian

So you get 2000 rpm's with each pump of the pedal... therefore you hit 6000 rpm?

Relax, I get what you meant- you rev to 2000 or so each time you depress the pedal. Do you realize that doing that will affect the choke operation? You should only pump the pedal once before starting (if cold) then crank and let it idle without pumping again.

Maybe you should relate the oil pressure to the time it takes to get pressure after starting the engine and letting it idle. And take in to consideration any air left in the oil pressure line since it will delay readings to the gauge... you're using one of those mechanical gauges with the polypropylene tubing, right?

I usually only rev it after starting when it is already warmed up. The only reason I do that is because it builds oil pressure quicker. When it is cold, the pressure builds a lot quicker, what I would consider normal. Probably due to thicker oil and fast idle.

If I do not rev it, the oil pressure probably takes about 5 or 6 seconds to build if the engine is warm and seems to only go to about 15 pounds until I give it a little gas.

The oil light, polypropelene tubing gauge, and my electrical gauge, which is currently installed, all do the same thing. I can hear the engine knock a little before the pressure builds, so I doubt it is just the gauge reading. The oil light sometimes flickers a few times before it goes out, if that helps any.

the_supernerd · 07-02-2009, 11:51 PM

I was also thinking about adding something like Lucas, but I am a little nervous about adding it after reading this:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

BigBluePile · 07-03-2009, 07:26 AM

Yup and that's why I don't use it, but like I said for a check of the pump you'd probably be ok.

FredTJ · 07-03-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicCantDecide

I noticed my oil pressure drop over a 1500 mile trip I did and I thought it was just low oil, but my oil is full. I'm having trouble building oil pressure also, usually sticks at the first line on the oil pressure gauge.

I have a 3VZ-E but I'd probably attribute it to an oil pump going out. I'm going to change my oil tomorrow and see if that helps.

If anyone else has some input that can help either of us that would be awesome.

And you think that "the first line on the oil pressure gauge" is too low ???
Why ?
What do you think it should be and why ?

Fred

FredTJ · 07-03-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camo31"10.50"

hahaha..when i seen this thread title..i was ooooohhh my jeezus..here we go again another 22re oil cap removed runs funny thread..LMAO..

no idea on your problem bud..i gots a 22r and it shoots right up to 50-75psi at idle..of course its a FRESH rebuild (less than 50miles)

You think and 50-75 psi at idle is fine ?????
I hope, at least, that is the cold pressure........

Fred

FredTJ · 07-03-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_supernerd

<SNIP>

Once the pressure is up, it seems to be good. Hot idle is about 25 PSI, cold idle is about 50, fast idle is usually maxed out at 75.

I'm not sure that I would call those pressure "good".
Maybe if that is cold pressure, but certainly not hot operating
temperature pressures ....

Fred

Dirt Driver · 07-03-2009, 12:55 PM

Does anyone else think it could be possible that the anti-drainback valve in the oil filter may not be working?

Ezrider_92356 · 07-03-2009, 01:08 PM

i would think possibly the oil filter drain back or the gasket on the pickup tube

the_supernerd · 07-03-2009, 02:20 PM

The anti drainback valve was my first guess, but I have changed the filter a few times and now I have a genuine Toyota filter. Can anyone think of a reason that the all the anti-drainback valves in the filters are not working? Could something like over-tightening the filters be causing the valves to not seal, maybe by warping the filter? I just remembered that this problem started happening right after an oil & filter change. The oil & filter has been changed since, but there might be something causing the anti-drainback valves to not work. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I changed the gasket on the pickup tube when I cleaned it, so I would assume it is ok, although there is a chance a bolt came loose or something.

FredTJ: What are good pressures suppose to be?

vital22re · 07-03-2009, 02:48 PM

well.. i'd pull the pump apart and check the gears. maybe its been damaged by a chunk of something. Also get a mechanical gauge to check your readings. maybe your sending unit is goin bad?

07-02-2009, 04:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
camo31"10.50" Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vian, OK Posts: 2,095	hahaha..when i seen this thread title..i was ooooohhh my jeezus..here we go again another 22re oil cap removed runs funny thread..LMAO.. no idea on your problem bud..i gots a 22r and it shoots right up to 50-75psi at idle..of course its a FRESH rebuild (less than 50miles) __________________ FOR SALE 1986 Ext. Cab 4x4, rebuilt 22R, 5spd, 31x10.50 X-Terrains FOR SALE 1992 SR5 FO RUNNA V6, 5 speed, 4in. trail-master lift, 33x12.50 BFG muds, 4.56 gears!!! and an IMMACULATE interior..yes..you should be jealous "Its still a toyota man.. Dont deprive it of its capabilities.." "If you can read english, Thank a teacher...If you can speak it, Thank a soldier!!" Kelli Ruark-2009

07-02-2009, 06:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
Marc Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Posts: 690	Define longer than it should? __________________ '91 4Runner SR5 V6 4X4 Auto, A/C, 4.56, 31x10.5x15 Nokian Vatiiva Tires, Taurus fan (removed) '90 4Runner SR5 V6 4X4 Auto, A/C, 4.56 V6 power with V8 fuel mileage I've used Fram oil filters and dino oil in all my stuff for 30 years and never had trouble I bet MOST people who say "swap in a 3.4" have NEVER changed any engine nevermind converting to a different type

07-02-2009, 09:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
the_supernerd Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sonora, CA Posts: 1,138	It takes a few seconds for pressure to build. I have never timed it, but I can sometimes rev it two or three times before the pressure builds. It is long enough for the engine to start knocking a little, which I know is bad for it. In my 4x4 and most other vehicles I have been in, the light usually goes out as soon as the engine is started. Once the pressure is up, it seems to be good. Hot idle is about 25 PSI, cold idle is about 50, fast idle is usually maxed out at 75. __________________ -Anthony 1987 4x4 Carbureted 22R truck Grill & brush guard \| Roll bars \| Bed liner \| Tubular rear bumper \| JVC CD-player \| Custom 6.5" rear speaker boxes with 6.5" Sony X-Plods \| Polk 3.5" speakers in dash \| Fog & driving lights Future mods: Dynomax muffler \| Spray on bed liner \| Custom switch for fog & driving lights

07-02-2009, 11:51 PM	#17 (permalink)
the_supernerd Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sonora, CA Posts: 1,138	I was also thinking about adding something like Lucas, but I am a little nervous about adding it after reading this: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm __________________ -Anthony 1987 4x4 Carbureted 22R truck Grill & brush guard \| Roll bars \| Bed liner \| Tubular rear bumper \| JVC CD-player \| Custom 6.5" rear speaker boxes with 6.5" Sony X-Plods \| Polk 3.5" speakers in dash \| Fog & driving lights Future mods: Dynomax muffler \| Spray on bed liner \| Custom switch for fog & driving lights

07-03-2009, 12:55 PM	#22 (permalink)
Dirt Driver Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Antelope Valley, SoCal Posts: 289	Does anyone else think it could be possible that the anti-drainback valve in the oil filter may not be working? __________________ Aka Dirty Dude thanks to a4runnerfreak. '94 Toyota PU-2WD, 22RE, 211,000 & counting. I have some Fords too. Looking for a turbo 4Runner or FJ55.

07-02-2009, 04:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
NicCantDecide Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 330	I noticed my oil pressure drop over a 1500 mile trip I did and I thought it was just low oil, but my oil is full. I'm having trouble building oil pressure also, usually sticks at the first line on the oil pressure gauge. I have a 3VZ-E but I'd probably attribute it to an oil pump going out. I'm going to change my oil tomorrow and see if that helps. If anyone else has some input that can help either of us that would be awesome.

07-02-2009, 10:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
jtruck79 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: tacoma,wa 98408 Posts: 25	did i hear you right saying when u did ur t cahin u cleaned the sludge out of your pu screen. man ouchy. would highly doubt that your oil pump is your issue since you stated that the oil pressure light goes out right at startup. i believe its time to drop the pan and change the rod and main bearings.. have fun make friends

07-03-2009, 02:20 PM	#24 (permalink)
the_supernerd Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sonora, CA Posts: 1,138	The anti drainback valve was my first guess, but I have changed the filter a few times and now I have a genuine Toyota filter. Can anyone think of a reason that the all the anti-drainback valves in the filters are not working? Could something like over-tightening the filters be causing the valves to not seal, maybe by warping the filter? I just remembered that this problem started happening right after an oil & filter change. The oil & filter has been changed since, but there might be something causing the anti-drainback valves to not work. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I changed the gasket on the pickup tube when I cleaned it, so I would assume it is ok, although there is a chance a bolt came loose or something. FredTJ: What are good pressures suppose to be? __________________ -Anthony 1987 4x4 Carbureted 22R truck Grill & brush guard \| Roll bars \| Bed liner \| Tubular rear bumper \| JVC CD-player \| Custom 6.5" rear speaker boxes with 6.5" Sony X-Plods \| Polk 3.5" speakers in dash \| Fog & driving lights Future mods: Dynomax muffler \| Spray on bed liner \| Custom switch for fog & driving lights Last edited by the_supernerd; 07-03-2009 at 02:34 PM.

07-03-2009, 02:48 PM	#25 (permalink)
vital22re Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: kirkland washington Posts: 684	well.. i'd pull the pump apart and check the gears. maybe its been damaged by a chunk of something. Also get a mechanical gauge to check your readings. maybe your sending unit is goin bad? __________________ 92 toyota truck 3.4 5spd 4.56 gears magna flow cat and muffler2 1/4 piping isr mod to intake 1.5 bjsfront add a leafs and 2inch lift shackles rear rancho shocks all around sitting on 265/75/r16 nitto terra grapplers

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